Horse pulling back when farrier nails up?

[EternalVetBills]

When she was still in work my mare was on previcox every day for arthritis but had additional Bute for shoeing on vet advice .. after years of previous good behaviour she was showing signs of discomfort when farrier was nailing on the shoes
Vet advised a sachet of Bute on the day before , the actual day and the day after as well as her dose of Previcox…….. don’t know if this would work for yours but seems to suit mine for quite a few years …

Mine has been absolutely adamant that Bute and Previcox are not to be fed together. I could have a chat with her about swapping to the Bute before and after though, as I know the Bute is stronger. Would be a real shame if she does need more painkillers as we were talking about trying to wean her off them come spring

 

[Widgeon]

Mine has been absolutely adamant that Bute and Previcox are not to be fed together. I could have a chat with her about swapping to the Bute before and after though, as I know the Bute is stronger. Would be a real shame if she does need more painkillers as we were talking about trying to wean her off them come spring

I wouldn't worry yet, if she does need Bute for the farrier (assuming that's the one specific thing that's causing her pain) that's quite different to being on it every day. If she's otherwise happy and comfortable I'm sure your vet will manage to find a workaround.

 

[paddy555]

have you repeated exactly what the farrier does yourself? tie her in exactly the same place, spend the same amount of time picking the hind foot up as high and in the same position as the farrier. He presumably loosens the clenches so a bit of hammering and pulling on her foot/leg as you pretend to take the shoe off. Then pick it up, put it down the number of times he burns the shoe on. Then pretend you are nailing it on. Keep the foot as high and in the farrier knee hold which some horses don't find comfortable and hammer the foot hard as in nailing.
I would imagine that at some stage in that which will probably take around 20 mins you will be able to see if she pulls away from joint pain or pulls away with the hammering.

Picking the feet up to clean is usually very much lower and for a lot less time with a lot less leverage that a farrier does and an owner is more gentle and careful.

If you have a male friend who can pretend to be the farrier (possible stronger than a female) so much the better. then Stand back and watch what is going wrong. Pulling back when nailing on may be the cumulative effect of constantly having to pick the leg up and down for the entire process. By that stage the hock/back/leg etc is getting very sore from the movement and she can no longer cope.

 

[Rowreach]

have you repeated exactly what the farrier does yourself? tie her in exactly the same place, spend the same amount of time picking the hind foot up as high and in the same position as the farrier. He presumably loosens the clenches so a bit of hammering and pulling on her foot/leg as you pretend to take the shoe off. Then pick it up, put it down the number of times he burns the shoe on. Then pretend you are nailing it on. Keep the foot as high and in the farrier knee hold which some horses don't find comfortable and hammer the foot hard as in nailing.
I would imagine that at some stage in that which will probably take around 20 mins you will be able to see if she pulls away from joint pain or pulls away with the hammering.

Picking the feet up to clean is usually very much lower and for a lot less time with a lot less leverage that a farrier does and an owner is more gentle and careful.

If you have a male friend who can pretend to be the farrier (possible stronger than a female) so much the better. then Stand back and watch what is going wrong. Pulling back when nailing on may be the cumulative effect of constantly having to pick the leg up and down for the entire process. By that stage the hock/back/leg etc is getting very sore from the movement and she can no longer cope.

It's when the fronts are done not the hinds.

 

[paddy555]

It's when the fronts are done not the hinds.

sorry I misread the post. I would still do exactly the same to narrow it down.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

When Arabi started playing up when nailing on we x rayed his feet and he had thin soles and coffin joint arthritis, I took his shoes off did a barefoot rehab and had the coffin joints medicated his still ridden and 20 this year.

 

[EternalVetBills]

Sorry for not updating everyone sooner. Things did not go to plan
On the Sunday 21st before the vet was due out the next day, my mare decided it was a brilliant idea to go through a 5 bar gate . This is the 3rd gate she's gone through since I've had her, and yes there is fencing around it so theoretically she can't get to it, but you know, horses!
So obviously we weren't able to do any of what we wanted to do on the Monday, we just did our best to patch her up and make sure nothing was broken.
So the vet ended up coming to do everything today instead, and we are still very much left scratching our heads.
She's 100% sound on the hard and the soft still. Extremely reactive to the hoof testers on the inside of the foot.
Foot x-rays were beautiful, not even the start of something which we were very happy with for a 15 year old horse. Good thick soles on her feet too, so vet isn't thinking thin sensitive soles. Hocks on x-rays look the same as they did 2 years ago, but we've jabbed them just to make sure it's not over compensation from the hocks that is causing the pain in front. Back x-rays were fine. And we've x-rayed her neck for the 100th time because vet and I are determined we're missing something there given how clumsy she is, but absolutely nothing to be seen
Cushings test has been taken, but that's obviously not back yet, so we shall see.
Our only theory if the cushings is negative, is that she's sore because she was trying to take the weight off of her hocks. We know there's no arthritis higher up, because we had to x-ray her knees and legs when she went through the gate . So it's just as much of a mystery as when we started!
Vets only advice for now is to see how she is now we've done her hocks, if there's no improvement in the sensitivity then we will have to have another think. She's going to come out when the farrier is here next Tuesday and sedate her for this visit as she doesn't feel the soreness will have gone by then, but then we will see how she goes without for the next visit. Honestly for a nearly retired field ornament she definitely knows how to stress me out! I will keep everyone posted

 

[EternalVetBills]

Oh and she had her teeth done today aswell, and she fractured a tooth. Because why not

 

[splashgirl45]

You sound like a fabulous owner , not everyone would do b as much for a part retired horse , hope you soon find an answer

 

[EternalVetBills]

You sound like a fabulous owner , not everyone would do b as much for a part retired horse , hope you soon find an answer

Sounds awful, but I wouldn't normally. She's just ones of those horses that gets you. We've been through a lot together, so seems silly to stop now, no matter how expensive it may be

 

[SEL]

My littlest cob hates having her back shoes on but she's got wonky feet so barefoot wasn't working for her.

Bute wasn't making much difference but I loaded her up with her field mates CBD (Hempine) for 48 hours before she was last shod and she didn't move a muscle. I hadn't told farrier and he looked confused and said she's nice and relaxed today. Looked a bit stoned to me but apparently there's no active ingredients in it!!!

Anyway I'm a bit of a fan now and they sent me some human teabags with my last order so next time I have to go to a stressful work meeting.....

 

[Abacus]

I realise she is part retired but in preparation for the farrier it might help to work her gently the day before and morning before he comes - to ease any stiffness in the hocks, if that is causing the pain during nailing. It might not be enough but worth a try. You don’t say if she lives in or out, but I know from my old boy with arthritic hocks that he’s much more comfortable out all the time, and has been better for the farrier since being out 24/7.

 

[Rowreach]

Sorry if you've already answered (can't remember that far back) but if she's nearly retired and the only thing that's showing is a big reaction to the hoof testers, why are you putting shoes on her again? The problem seems to be foot rather than skeletal after that workup (did the vet xray the stifles?).

 

[EternalVetBills]

Sorry if you've already answered (can't remember that far back) but if she's nearly retired and the only thing that's showing is a big reaction to the hoof testers, why are you putting shoes on her again? The problem seems to be foot rather than skeletal after that workup (did the vet xray the stifles?).

Because she doesn't cope in work without them, and didn't cope mentally where we are with not doing any work at all. There's lots of turnout, but it's just not very interesting and there's nothing else retired that could stay with her all the time, so she had lots coming and going but wasn't going anywhere herself. It just really wound her up. She can also see the lorries leaving from her field and on more than one occasion jumped out to try and follow them down the driveway
It's a really tricky one, in an ideal world I'd whip them off and chuck her out to see how she went, but unfortunately that's just not an option for her right now.
We are in the middle of buying our own yard (renting a block of stables on a livery at the moment), and I'm hoping I will be able to have a setup that will allow me to manage her better. We're planning on setting up a rehab yard, building a track, and just having all round better management than you can get on livery. So I'm just (quite literally at times) trying to limp her along until that's all finalised, because I do firmly believe that we will be able to help many of her issues once I can build somewhere more horse centric.
That's the plan anyway, I just keep telling her she's not allowed to drop dead on me yet. I don't think she's listening though

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

Have you considered mri of the front feet? Not wanting to scare you but my boy had perfect, clean x-rays but had significant tears to both DDFT in his front feet on mri. His started with not liking being nailed up too.

 

[Rowreach]

Because she doesn't cope in work without them, and didn't cope mentally where we are with not doing any work at all. There's lots of turnout, but it's just not very interesting and there's nothing else retired that could stay with her all the time, so she had lots coming and going but wasn't going anywhere herself. It just really wound her up. She can also see the lorries leaving from her field and on more than one occasion jumped out to try and follow them down the driveway
It's a really tricky one, in an ideal world I'd whip them off and chuck her out to see how she went, but unfortunately that's just not an option for her right now.
We are in the middle of buying our own yard (renting a block of stables on a livery at the moment), and I'm hoping I will be able to have a setup that will allow me to manage her better. We're planning on setting up a rehab yard, building a track, and just having all round better management than you can get on livery. So I'm just (quite literally at times) trying to limp her along until that's all finalised, because I do firmly believe that we will be able to help many of her issues once I can build somewhere more horse centric.
That's the plan anyway, I just keep telling her she's not allowed to drop dead on me yet. I don't think she's listening though

Ah I see. Did you try her in boots? (I don't shoe mine but I confess I know nothing about boots because I don't need to use them).

 

[EternalVetBills]

Have you considered mri of the front feet? Not wanting to scare you but my boy had perfect, clean x-rays but had significant tears to both DDFT in his front feet on mri. His started with not liking being nailed up too.

We have discussed MRI in the past. Another issue with her is that she broke her back 2 years ago, and since them has really struggled to travel. So, although I say she tries to come with us, if I were to actually load up and drive off, she can't stand in the lorry anymore. She just hasn't got the balance. So we reserve travelling for absolute extreme circumstances where we have no other options.
I did ask the vet today whether I should reconsider doing another bone scan and/or MRI as it's been over 2 years now since her last lot, but the vet felt it was probably undue stres for her, at this time. But if we're not winning, it's definitely something I would consider doing again.
Just writing that makes it sound like I'm keeping an absolutely ruined horse going . I promise, she is normally very happy in every day life, I watch her like a hawk for signs of pain or stress, any tiny little eye or lip wrinkle and the vet is there. She is my girl and I wouldn't dream of letting her suffer even for a second, she's just a bit special these days

 

[EternalVetBills]

Ah I see. Did you try her in boots? (I don't shoe mine but I confess I know nothing about boots because I don't need to use them).

Yes, a few different types of boots and pads. She's got really good feet, and if I'm being completely honest if she didn't have the back issues, I probably would have persevered longer and I think we would have got there. But physio (who is the most pro barefoot person I know) and vet, were both concerned that if we couldn't get her into a better movement pattern for working in, she would make her back bad again, and we unfortunately just couldn't get it right with the surfaces we've got to work with at current yard without putting shoes on.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

We have discussed MRI in the past. Another issue with her is that she broke her back 2 years ago, and since them has really struggled to travel. So, although I say she tries to come with us, if I were to actually load up and drive off, she can't stand in the lorry anymore. She just hasn't got the balance. So we reserve travelling for absolute extreme circumstances where we have no other options.
I did ask the vet today whether I should reconsider doing another bone scan and/or MRI as it's been over 2 years now since her last lot, but the vet felt it was probably undue stres for her, at this time. But if we're not winning, it's definitely something I would consider doing again.
Just writing that makes it sound like I'm keeping an absolutely ruined horse going . I promise, she is normally very happy in every day life, I watch her like a hawk for signs of pain or stress, any tiny little eye or lip wrinkle and the vet is there. She is my girl and I wouldn't dream of letting her suffer even for a second, she's just a bit special these days

Ah that makes sense, yes sounds like it might be more stressful because of the travelling to do that. If she’s had an mri scan in the past hopefully it might not be that anyway. How old is she?

 

[EternalVetBills]

Ah that makes sense, yes sounds like it might be more stressful because of the travelling to do that. If she’s had an mri scan in the past hopefully it might not be that anyway. How old is she?

I hope not but with this horse you never know . She's 15 in April

 

[paddi22]

it sounds silly, but have you tried noise cancelling ears.. I've had two over the years that just absolutely hated the sound.

 

[EternalVetBills]

it sounds silly, but have you tried noise cancelling ears.. I've had two over the years that just absolutely hated the sound.

I have got some that I could pop on her. I doubt it is the noise because she's been shod every 4 weeks pretty much since I've had her, bar the bit of time I tried to retire her and when she's been on holiday, but it's worth a go.