Horse rearing over breast bar in Ifor Williams 510.

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bearTessy

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Hi ,

Does anyone have an experience of a horse rearing over the breast bar of a trailer ? It's an Ifor Williams 510, so plenty of head room etc, pony is only 14hh .

She loads perfectly, walks on in a calm manner, and we have been working on just standing still on the trailer, relaxing and letting her walk out of the back ramp, stopped using the front exit so she doesn't associate this with getting out the front. A lady has been out helping me, who managed to shut all the breach bars, shut the ramp and walk to the jockey door and back with no problems. She then said she doesn't think we will have any more issues.

Which is fine, but I am concerned about it happening if I am out alone, I know there is the Allan key to drop the front bar if she gets stuck, but want to avoid this situation from happening in the first place.

There are so many varying views on how to proceed, if we should remove the partitions, get a full length bar and cross tie her. Remove everything, cross tie her , Or if we should tie under the bar and see how she reacts, the bars are on the highest setting and as close together as possible, unfortunately she's just short enough to get back and rear up.

Would really like to get her out to a couple of fun shows over winter, but feel this is holding us back.

Any tips/views on how best to proceed with a problem like this would be great & any success stories as it's quite disheartening at the moment !!

Thanks .
 
Are you saying she hasn’t actually reared in the trailer? TBH if that is the case I think you are over thinking this.
If pony is loading calmly with the partition in place and front breach bars up and you are able to count up back bars and close ramp and she remains calm I would make next stage a small drive, just round the block, and see how she does. If she travels well you are good to go. If not then think about alternatives of removing partition etc.
It is obviously sensible to know how to remove the bars in an emergency but you shouldn’t let thoughts of potential problems stop you going out.
Sorry if I have misunderstood and you have had loading/travelling problem.
 
CMcC said:
Are you saying she hasn’t actually reared in the trailer? TBH if that is the case I think you are over thinking this.
If pony is loading calmly with the partition in place and front breach bars up and you are able to count up back bars and close ramp and she remains calm I would make next stage a small drive, just round the block, and see how she does. If she travels well you are good to go. If not then think about alternatives of removing partition etc.
It is obviously sensible to know how to remove the bars in an emergency but you shouldn’t let thoughts of potential problems stop you going out.
Sorry if I have misunderstood and you have had loading/travelling problem.
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Sorry CMcc, totally my fault, she has reared over the bar twice before, this is in-between loading her and us getting into the car.

First instance wasn't too bad as only just went over as we were outside, second time she was up to her 'arm pits' and was a bit more serious.
 
I've no experience of whether it works or not but you could try this https://www.equitravelsafe.co.uk/fitting-installing

Is she good to travel or is just when you go to get in the car?

Do you have a camera? Maybe try one person staying with her, you go to the car turn engine on etc ready to go and then the other person can jump in. Would help if you have a camera to see what she does when she is left?

Do you give her a haynet? If not I would definitely do this to try and distract her.
 
I had a 14hh who jumped the breast bar, and tried to escape via the jockey door in a Rice. Luckily he got stuck over the bar, but the trailer door was knocked clean off it's hinges and into the opposite hedgerow!

Solution: Lots of patient loading practice, and a second rope from his head-collar down to around the breast bar as 'insurance'.
 
zola89 said:
I've no experience of whether it works or not but you could try this https://www.equitravelsafe.co.uk/fitting-installing

Is she good to travel or is just when you go to get in the car?

Do you have a camera? Maybe try one person staying with her, you go to the car turn engine on etc ready to go and then the other person can jump in. Would help if you have a camera to see what she does when she is left?

Do you give her a haynet? If not I would definitely do this to try and distract her.
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Thanks I have enquired about that harness in the past, but only works with Lorries rather than a trailer.

She is good to travel, came down to us in a 3.5 tonne box ( stallion partitions) and the woman said she was quiet as a lamb. Also after the first rear over the breast bar ( other half drove whilst I shut the doors on the move - around our farm yard) she stood perfectly once going as had to balance.

We've got a camera fitted, she just gets very fidgety between shutting the doors and moving off, then takes a step back and rears up and over the bar. Doesn't panic once up there, just awaits rescue.

She has a haynet, but pays no attention to it.

I know we need to do some more practicing, just wondered if there's a method we should be trying first .
 
scruffyponies said:
I had a 14hh who jumped the breast bar, and tried to escape via the jockey door in a Rice. Luckily he got stuck over the bar, but the trailer door was knocked clean off it's hinges and into the opposite hedgerow!

Solution: Lots of patient loading practice, and a second rope from his head-collar down to around the breast bar as 'insurance'.
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Oh wow ! how scary, they really do get themselves into silly situations at times.

That's brilliant thank you, we try to practice loading at least 3 times a week , is the lead rope tied to the breast bar or under it to the front of the trailer ?
 
I bought a pony and he went over the bar when I collected him, being young somehow he managed to get right over into the space and waited to be rescued, the journey home was ok with him x tied and a haynet securely wedged in front of him but he never tried it again although did mainly travel in a lorry.

I would x tie rather than tie under the bar, which makes me feel rather uneasy, look at whether you can fit a shorter breech strap so she cannot go so far back, try putting a mirror up so she has "company", haylage may work better than hay in the net especially if she doesn't usually have it.
 
Moving the breast and breech bars so that the distance between them is as short as possible may stop her from backing up, so nipping the jump in the bud. However, the distance is quite generous in a 510 so I'm not sure it would stop her.

I'm in the wimping out camp, I'm afraid. I've had a horse jump the breast bar in a 510 and it's not great, even though it was easy to drop the breast bar with an allen key and release him. You say she travelled well to you in a stallion box, that is the transport I would recommend for a jumper.
 
be positive said:
I bought a pony and he went over the bar when I collected him, being young somehow he managed to get right over into the space and waited to be rescued, the journey home was ok with him x tied and a haynet securely wedged in front of him but he never tried it again although did mainly travel in a lorry.

I would x tie rather than tie under the bar, which makes me feel rather uneasy, look at whether you can fit a shorter breech strap so she cannot go so far back, try putting a mirror up so she has "company", haylage may work better than hay in the net especially if she doesn't usually have it.
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Thank you, my other half thinks he could fit another set of breach bars closer together , so will give that a go.

Haylage is a good idea, she's not had that before so may tempt her to behave !
 
Tiddlypom said:
Moving the breast and breech bars so that the distance between them is as short as possible may stop her from backing up, so nipping the jump in the bud. However, the distance is quite generous in a 510 so I'm not sure it would stop her.

I'm in the wimping out camp, I'm afraid. I've had a horse jump the breast bar in a 510 and it's not great, even though it was easy to drop the breast bar with an allen key and release him. You say she travelled well to you in a stallion box, that is the transport I would recommend for a jumper.
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I would love to do that, in the dream world that would be my first port of call, however I simply cannot afford one. The stallion boxes are even more expensive than a regular 3.5 tonne. Cannot afford to take my lorry test either for a larger one, And my partner isn't keen on us having a lorry.
 
scruffyponies said:
Just to the bar itself. Not short enough to stop him eating his hay, but would act like a standing martingale if he tried to take another flier, and stop his head a long way before he got his legs over. :)
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Thank you , will give this a go. Nice to know you've had success ! she's only 4, so got plenty of years left to learn.
 
I had one that did this. We fitted another tie ring so he could be tied with his chest right up to the breast bar. If they can move back, they can then get up and over. Hope that makes sense. Good luck.
 
They do get over it in time (get over doing it, I should say - not get over the bar!). I'd be worried that all the tying down and chest harness thingys just make them fight more - horses are scarily strong! It is always an option to travel them loose with no bars at all (top doors closed, of course).
 
I have travelled very short distances with cross ties and no breast bar. not to be really recommended but might just do the trick in the short term
 
My boy did this on our first solo trip out . It was horrifying and I'm not ashamed to admit I froze in panic. We were at a riding club event and all the lasses ran over to assist . All I could do was stay outside and talk to him to calm him . One of the ladies managed to release the bar with a crowbar she had in her wagon . He was none the worse for wear despite being suspended on the breast bar , he travelled back home no problem despite me shaking like a shi@@ing dog!
Took trailer back to dealer and got them to fit a ring higher up . He's tied so he can get to net but that's it . I always say "stand " from the minute the ramp goes up until I get in car and get away .
It really is frightening .
 
kathantoinette said:
I had one that did this. We fitted another tie ring so he could be tied with his chest right up to the breast bar. If they can move back, they can then get up and over. Hope that makes sense. Good luck.
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Thank you , We are going to try moving the breach bar further forwards so she's a bit more snug and cannot step backwards, but if that doesn't work- this sounds like a good option !
 
Cortez said:
They do get over it in time (get over doing it, I should say - not get over the bar!). I'd be worried that all the tying down and chest harness thingys just make them fight more - horses are scarily strong! It is always an option to travel them loose with no bars at all (top doors closed, of course).
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Thank you Cortez, from my manic googling- seems to be youngsters are the main culprits. She's just a typical four year old at times, doesn't think till she has done it . She's the type to fight and I have already learnt with her fighting back doesn't get you anywhere... like you say they are extremely strong. Typical Mare that needs persuading it's a good idea and waiting for her to agree.

We did consider the option of loose travelling, this is how she has travelled before, loose in a large horse lorry with other horses.

Fingers crossed with age she comes round .
 
henmother said:
My boy did this on our first solo trip out . It was horrifying and I'm not ashamed to admit I froze in panic. We were at a riding club event and all the lasses ran over to assist . All I could do was stay outside and talk to him to calm him . One of the ladies managed to release the bar with a crowbar she had in her wagon . He was none the worse for wear despite being suspended on the breast bar , he travelled back home no problem despite me shaking like a shi@@ing dog!
Took trailer back to dealer and got them to fit a ring higher up . He's tied so he can get to net but that's it . I always say "stand " from the minute the ramp goes up until I get in car and get away .
It really is frightening .
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This is my fear ! it's all well and good her behaving at home but if she pratted about when I'm out somewhere alone its terrifying !

So when you mean higher up , in terms of closer to the roof or more forwards ? our tie ring is already pretty high up , any higher and it would literally be on the roof. We thought this might be helping her rear up , as when she goes up, gives a lot of slack, rather than tieing lower down .
 
I thought that this might be a pony. I knew of a Highland that did this. The owners changed their trailer to an Oblic where the ponies travel as if they are in a lorry and there is no breast bar to jump. They could afford to do this though, as Oblics are more expensive than an IF.
 
We had a night mare with my mare and travelling. She would load fine, but then instantly when the ramp went up would panic and thrash around. Solution was to take the partitions out and give her room to stretch out. We also invested in the full length rear and front breast bars.
She now travels fine. It's a bit of trial and error I'm afraid. See what works best for your boy x
 
Cortez said:
It is always an option to travel them loose with no bars at all
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Never travel without the bars in place. They are an important part of the structural integrity of the trailer. In addition, the rear bar is built to take the weight of the horse, if they lean back on the rear ramp, it has been known to come undone and dump the horse on the road
 
jbless said:
Never travel without the bars in place. They are an important part of the structural integrity of the trailer. In addition, the rear bar is built to take the weight of the horse, if they lean back on the rear ramp, it has been known to come undone and dump the horse on the road
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Cattle are not transported with bars: they seem to manage OK.
 
I had one I tied down with a rope over his wither to stop him climbing on the tack locker, but I would be very careful if you try this. I used rope and carried a knife. It was very successful with this particular horse, who was otherwise incredibly violent and dangerous.

Ties+&+Bolts+WR.jpg
 
We had an Allen key when our 14h did this, could not shift the bolts and in the end he jumped over the bar,and rolled down the ramp, it was a hairy experience, never done it again but do check your bolts will undo
 
jbless said:
On their way to the abbatoir:)
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What are you on about. 😏 ? Cattle are moved in trailers all the time, not just on their way to an abattoir. People even show them, you know? And cattle trailers do not have bars.

I was going to answer your earlier post by saying that trailers never used to have breech bars on the back, and 3.5 vans have the same antiluce (geddit? 😊) ramp fixings as trailers, and I've never known a ramp come open in use on either. And with the type of fixings used, if the horse leans on the ramp, the fixings push tighter shut, they don't work loose.
 
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