Trace Horse recorded as slaughtered but is NOT ? Please help!!!

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Ynnek

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Hi everyone

Looking for advice. I’ve recently turned 18, 8 years ago my mum bought me a horse (she isn’t horsey at all) and did not update ownership on his passport. A while back attempting to trace some of his history, I emailed HSI to ask about any info they had on him (passport is practically empty). They said he is recorded as slaughtered and asked if I was sure the passport matches my horse. The drawn up markings page are 100% him. I asked when this was and why and they did not reply. What do I do? Why would this happen and What will happen if I update ownership and what has to happen to resolve this. Can I do it through Horsesource.ie ??? We have NO proof of purchase or receipt for him. I’m very very worried as I want to get him insured

His old owner/s (?) have ripped out the sticker with their name. The passport (duplicate) is issued to a previous owner on the pedigree page, would the sticker be same owner that’s been ripped out ? He was born in 2005, passported in September 2009 (the vet practice that did his markings, shut down in 2008 ??? I’ve spoken to the guy that did the markings and he has no info) duplicate issued in 2011 then recorded as slaughtered.

I emailed his the company that issued his microchip, they said the vet code is ‘unknown’ and that this would indicate it was done by an independent microchip implanter, not a vet. They have no historical logs of him until I made an account with them and registered him as mine.


Please help !!!!!
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
What was the vet practice please Ynnek? Can you contact who your mother bought the horse from? Have you got your vet to check the microchip to see it matches the microchip number on the passport?
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Thank you for the reply. We had quite a lot of problems with seller after we bought him. He was sold as up to date with everything and sound, we soon learned he was the opposite of that ! By this point, seller had moved countries. Chip is not read yet but will do. I believe it is his passport, but then I am confused because of this
 
Welcome to the forum.

From what you write, you bought him 8 years ago and you have his vet history for 8 years.

IF the chip number in the passport matches the one in his neck, then at one time he was supposed to have been PTS but sadly for him someone, probably the person who was supposed to shoot him, sold him on instead. In theory, the person who arranged for him to be PTS but didn't get proof it was done might still legally own the horse and want him back but that seems like an extremely unlikely scenario to me.

OR the chip number won't match what's in his neck, and as he has a replacement passport that's quite likely.

Loads of people don't bother to update ownership, I very rarely did. The passport does not prove ownership even if it's correct.

So you should just insure him, because none of the above or the lack of a purchase invoice is any bar to insuring him. Though asking to insure a 20 year old horse after 8 years of ownership might be, and you are, I would have thought, unlikely to get more than accidental damage and third party.

Why are you worried now about a passport you've had 8 years? Insurers don't usually ask you to to prove the chip number matches your horse, or prove that you bought it unless it's worth a lot of money. You don't even have to own him to insure him, just be responsible for him and you can prove that by showing his vet record that your mum's been paying.
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I missed that he was born in 2005, so agree with ycbm I can't think the need for correct passport will be an issue for you at his age. Can you even get a new insurance policy on a horse of that age? You certainly can't here in Ireland but perhaps different in the UK? I definitely don't think you would get vet fees at his age even with 8 years vet records. Perhaps just public liability but that would be about it. Have you had a quote yet?
 
ycbm said:
Welcome to the forum.

You bought him 8 years ago. You have his vet history for 8 years.

IF the chip number in the passport matches the one in his neck, then at one time he was supposed to have been PTS but sadly for him someone, probably the person who was supposed to shoot him, sold him on instead. In theory, the person who arranged for him to be PTS but didn't get proof it was done might still legally own the horse and want him back but that seems like an extremely unlikely scenario to me.

OR the chip number won't match what's in his neck, and as he has a replacement passport that's quite likely.

Loads of people don't bother to update ownership, I very rarely did. The passport does not prove ownership even if it's correct.

So you should just insure him, because none of the above or the lack of a purchase invoice is any bar to insuring him. Though asking to insure a 20 year old horse after 8 years of ownership might be, and you are, I would have thought, unlikely to get more than accidentsal damage and third party.

Why are you worried now about a passport you've had 8 years? Insurers don't usually ask you to to prove the chip number matches your horse, or prove that you bought it unless it's worth a lot of money. You don't even have to own him to insure him, just be responsible for him and you can prove that by showing his vet record that your mum's been paying.
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Thanks very much for the reply! My worry is getting a fine or in trouble for not sending it off years ago.

Do you think it’s possible he could have 2 microchips/or 2 different passports? Possibly re registered in 2009 to be sold on ? As the microchip no. I have for him wasn’t actually registered to anyone until he was with me & has no vet code. Owner sticker ripped out & He has no pedigree. I have emailed to ask when microchip was implanted/issued

I just don’t get why he would’ve be put as slaughtered, can slaughtered be another term for PTS? If so could’ve been for insurance?

He isn’t insured as I’ve just turned 18 and wasn’t able to until then. He has navicular + leg issues so it wouldn’t cover problems with them, I worry if he were to colic/injury. Maybe old owners were aware of the navicular, or on & off lameness.
 
Mrs. Jingle said:
I missed that he was born in 2005, so agree with ycbm I can't think the need for correct passport will be an issue for you at his age. Can you even get a new insurance policy on a horse of that age? You certainly can't here in Ireland but perhaps different in the UK? I definitely don't think you would get vet fees at his age even with 8 years vet records. Perhaps just public liability but that would be about it. Have you had a quote yet?
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We are in the Uk but he is from Ireland. I’ve looked at few different insurance options and just wasn’t sure how to go about it because of the ‘slaughtered’ part. I’ll have him scanned, hopefully will narrow some things down
 
Ynnek said:
I just don’t get why he would’ve be put as slaughtered, can slaughtered be another term for PTS?
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Slaugter & PTS are both ways of ending the life of a horse - PTS usually refers to done by a vet whereas slaughter means at an abattoir.

Your horse was probably sent for slaughter because he was lame and no-one cared enough about him to find out why. But the abbatoir sold him on instead. At this stage you don't need to worry about a passport. You don't have to update them and many people never bother.

A friend bought a young horse and discovered the same thing - she found an old owner and discovered the owner thought he'd been slaughtered and was horrified to realise he'd been sold - with original passport and chip too. My friend did then PTS when old owner explained a history of bolting/explosive bucking and £££££££ spent with no resolution.

So if this was a new horse to you I'd have warned you that all bets are off in trms of soundness/temperament. But as you've had him 8 years it sounds lile you (and he!) got lucky to have found each other.
 
Ynnek said:
Do you think it’s possible he could have 2 microchips/or 2 different passports?
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My vet told me that the most no. of microchips she has found in a horse is 3. New passports are issued all the time, sometimes they are a duplicate of the original passport if the passport has been accidentally lost, sometimes it's essentially a brand new passport with no link to the original one and the horses history is lost.

I know someone who has not bothered transferring their horses passports into their own name, no problems have arisen at the vets or at competitions.

World horse welfare have third party insurance as part of their membership program and you can also add on vet bills for limited things like injuries.

At your horses stage of life, given that you have known him for so long I wouldn't worry about the passport. For vet bills you might find a lot of things are excluded on insurance and it will be better to try to build up some savings to give yourself options on appropriate treatment at his age.
 
Could another possibility be that another horse was slaughtered using his passport? 2011 would be before the scandal when horsemeat and Bute were found in lasagne and burgers so however rigorous they are now, there were issues then. A duplicate passport would have the advantage of the page signing out of the food chain being clean.
 
criso said:
Could another possibility be that another horse was slaughtered using his passport? 2011 would be before the scandal when horsemeat and Bute were found in lasagne and burgers so however rigorous they are now, there were issues then. A duplicate passport would have the advantage of the page signing out of the food chain being clean.
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Possibly. Although his passport states he is excluded from the food chain. Could they still have used his passport in this case ?
 
Ynnek said:
Possibly. Although his passport states he is excluded from the food chain. Could they still have used his passport in this case ?
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Actually as you have the duplicate, it could have been the original that was used.

Could even have been accidental. Mix up means that another horse ends up with his passport. That horse gets slaughtered at some point with that passport. Meanwhile a duplicate is applied for your horse which is the one you have.
 
I honestly wouldn't lose any sleep over it. You have had your horse many years now without any problems due to the passport. At his age (if the DOB is even correct, he might well be older?) as posters have said you're not going to be able to get vet fees or anything significant other than public liability, but there are cheaper ways of getting that as explained.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.
 
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criso said:
Could another possibility be that another horse was slaughtered using his passport? 2011 would be before the scandal when horsemeat and Bute were found in lasagne and burgers so however rigorous they are now, there were issues then. A duplicate passport would have the advantage of the page signing out of the food chain being clean.
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especially as the original passport is missing!
 
You could get a get a veteran or accident only policy which would cover for external injuries and also includes public liability, accident and loss, theft straying.

I don't know if they look up passport and microchip numbers when you apply but it could come up if you had to claim for a fatal accident.
 
As said I wouldn’t worry too much with an aged horse. If you haven’t needed the passport until now, it is unlikely you will need it in future. There are many horses out there with the wrong passports (because the horses looked similar) and dodgy dealers took advantage.
 
I bought 'P' in 2010 and 'b' in 2012 never changed either of their passport into my ownership as they are with me for life. Always had them insured until recently, now little b just has public liability through world horse welfare.
Your horses situation does sound a little dodgy but to be honest you have had him this long I wouldn't be worrying to much about it now, he sounds like he has been lucky to find you
 
nagblagger said:
I wouldn't worry at all, although i am surprised if you have had him 8 years and your vet has never checked for chip and passport.
Any new equines i acquire, on 'my' vets first visit to them they have always check the passport and chip. We have found 2 in an Irish import.
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I've never had any vet check a chip or a passport.

I've had a 4 year old and later a 2 year old gelded without a passport check and multiple other times drugs prescribed without the vet knowing whether or not they were signed out of the food chain.
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Ambers Echo said:
So if this was a new horse to you I'd have warned you that all bets are off in trms of soundness/temperament. But as you've had him 8 years it sounds lile you (and he!) got lucky to have found each other.
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This.
We had a dealer contact us once, asking if we knew anyone who wanted 'an endurance horse'. Turned out the mare had belonged to an acquaintance of ours - she'd come to the end of the line with the mare and had trusted a good friend to sort out PTS for her as she was too devastated to be there herself. The friend gave her back the head collar and a piece of mane and swore the deed was done. She shouldn't have trusted the friend as the horse was sold on. All the various parties went to ground once a light was shone on the situation and I don't know what happened to the horse in the end.

See what the microchip says as it may be a simple admin mix up. Do you have the receipt for the purchase of the horse?
 
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