Char1995
Member
No one else has ridden him as of recently as haven’t got anyone else who can get on. My instructor doesn’t have any availability to ride
Horse reluctant to go forward and rearing
- Thread starter Char1995
- Start date
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
I would get a 2nd opinion on the saddle. It is not unknown for a horse to disagree with the fitter about comfort.
sbloom
Well-Known Member
The challenge with having the saddle checked is that you have a pattern of behaviour now, almost certainly pain related, and it can make a saddle fitting very difficult, and potentially dangerous. In an ideal world a saddle fitting is conducted for a horse that is pain free and able to be ridden, otherwise you can't tell what's causing what. A basic check that is either static only, or a short ridden one where you don't get to a point of him being happy to move forwards freely (how does he do that if he's still sore...?) really isn't much use.
For dramatic behaviour like this I would go to the vet first, and would advise a customer to do the same if they had told me why they wanted a saddle check.
For dramatic behaviour like this I would go to the vet first, and would advise a customer to do the same if they had told me why they wanted a saddle check.
maya2008
Well-Known Member
I have never had a problem asking for a saddle check for a horse showing possible saddle fit problems. The fitters we have used have always checked the back first for pain/reactions, then placed the saddle on and watched for reactions there, assessed fit like that, then reaction to girth being done up, fit with girth tighter, fit with person’s weight on etc. If at any point there is an issue, they stop. Recommend x weeks of rest, arrange to come back later. When I was young and inexperienced, I really appreciated this, and various friends of mine now still do because they have no idea what does/does not fit. I took the time to ask questions and learn, because I wanted to know when to ask the saddler to come before I hit big problems, but many people don’t have that opportunity.
It doesn’t take a vet to see a negative reaction to a saddle. Our little guest was a nightmare to tack up when she arrived. My kids ride in a TCS with padding and all our ponies are happy. So we triple checked for pain in the back, then just gently kept going. Within a week she was easy for me to do, within two my children could tack her up. Same with being ridden - spun to deliberately ditch the child at first, within two days she realised nothing hurt and was easy and calm. Popped her owner’s cub saddle on for her own child to have a sit last week - it looked ok, but she was not settled even walking with the child and the next day flat out said no when she saw it. Switched to ours (different make), fine. Happy pony.
I have known horses get more and more frantic as saddle fit gets worse, or where someone dropped it and the tree is broken. It’s always the first thing to check.
Birker2020
Well-Known Member
I agree totally. This was my horse Lari on his saddle fitting day, he was already compromised with kissing spine, he was yet to be diagnosed with xray.
You could have stuck a 12 inch thick feather duvet over a prolite pad on his back under the saddle and you would have still had the same reaction. Doing up the girth was suicidal, any change in balance in the seat would mean he would react that's why the saddle fitter did it for me. It was only a few seconds later when walking round that he reacted in the way the photos show. The previous saddle was a temp solution and was digging into him which is why I spent four months ground work building his core and topline and giving him time to heal whilst trying to negate the damage the previous saddle had caused before even attempting another saddle.
I'd get the vet out OP and take it from there. A few x-rays won't be that expensive, the trouble is that the x-rays might show changes but that doesn't mean to say that the pain is coming from those changes. But that's a whole different kettle of fish sadly. You have to look at the bigger picture before you can determine that a horse is in pain from the kissing spine, for example if a horse has SI or PSD issues then he will be holding himself differently which could cause his muscles either side of his back to become sore.
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Char1995
Member
Thank you, really helpful. I’ll likely call my vet tonight if possible
sbloom
Well-Known Member
Possible saddle fit problems vary hugely and of course that's often the reason we're called out for a check. But where there's a high chance the horse is in pain, and showing dangerous or potentially dangerous behaviour, it's not the time for a saddle check. We should not be riding a horse that has a high chance of being in pain, and how can I see if a horse likes and moves well in a saddle if it is in pain on the day? Anything other than a full ridden assessment isn't a saddle check, it's not a tick box exercise and when I keep seeing "saddle's fine" on a horse with these sorts of problems I know very well it's likely to have been that very tick box exercise. And rest and a revisit might be okay sometimes, for the odd condition, or worth trying before treatment is pursued, but that's not for the fitter to advise on as they can't diagnose. A vet should be consulted, at least a physical therapist, to determine what's going on.
All sorts of beliefs about saddle fitting exist, and shift over time, and "saddle fitter followed by bodyworker" for example was often the approach/belief - why have the body "fixed" if the saddle's going to cause problems when you put it back on? Absolutely! But fitters should not be fitting to horses that are significantly compromised or in pain as we can't read the horse's reactions, we can't see them going normally, and if all DOES go well the saddle may well have just been fitted to a horse that's moving in a compromised manner and as soon as any other problem is sorted it'll need checking and adjusting again....we need to not ride horses if their saddle is in doubt, and not ride horses when they're probably in pain. I know that's obvious, but the old approach stems from not wanting to do/not knowing how to do etc non-ridden work, when it boils down to it.
Body first, saddle second. I don't know of a fitter that disagrees with that.
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motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
My boy did this , instructor said he was taking the piss…. Physio said all seemed fine but I was not convinced with either opinion I’m not sure horses do “take the piss” to that extent. Anyhow had a poor performance with vet , had X-rays , he has spondylitis and kissing spine , retired from ridden work .
Char1995
Member
So sorry to hear about this, my instructor and physio have said the same. Hopefully will be able to have the vet out soon to check mine over
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
I think it’s worth it , even to put your mind at rest, instructors are not trained to spot health issues, are you insured ? Mine thankfully covered mine but Tbf I wasn’t horrified with price, felt it was cheaper than dogs/cats vet, he had nerve blockers, X-rays, lameness work up and ultrasounds on joints plus 2 nights in horsie hospital. The vet did say usually angry horses are very uncomfortable horses.
Char1995
Member
I’ve thankfully got him insured. Definitely just need something to put my mind at ease. I think I’m covered for upto 3000 in vet bills. Do you mind me asking how much is ended up being for all of that please?
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
Agreeing with everyone else on here re. getting pain checks i.e. saddle, vet, teeth/bridle etc etc.
I had one who was a rearer; he'd come from a trekking centre and all he'd done was follow the bum ahead. He'd never hacked solo. I utilised professional help and we did sort it (she gave me techniques for if he did decide to rear). He became a really nice hacking horse.
Later on in his life, when he was 20yo, I met a previous owner who'd had him when he was about 5 - 6yo, and she told me she'd taught him to rear! Her reasoning was that he was gonna do it anyway and he might as well do it to order. Hmmm, yep..........
However in this situation which OP describes this pain seems to be coinciding with "new" things happening, one of which is the saddle?? I'd therefore suspect this may be the problem and I would be looking at this in the first instance. However I would still be inclined to get vet out for a full work-up and see what might be going on. If your vet practice has an Equinosis lameness diagnostic machine this might be a very useful piece of kit in this instance - if they haven't got one themselves it might be worth asking if they can refer you to a practice/vet hospital, which has one, as it might well be very informative about what might be going on and could save you a fair bit of £££ in the long-run if used early on as a diagnostic measure.
I had one who was a rearer; he'd come from a trekking centre and all he'd done was follow the bum ahead. He'd never hacked solo. I utilised professional help and we did sort it (she gave me techniques for if he did decide to rear). He became a really nice hacking horse.
Later on in his life, when he was 20yo, I met a previous owner who'd had him when he was about 5 - 6yo, and she told me she'd taught him to rear! Her reasoning was that he was gonna do it anyway and he might as well do it to order. Hmmm, yep..........
However in this situation which OP describes this pain seems to be coinciding with "new" things happening, one of which is the saddle?? I'd therefore suspect this may be the problem and I would be looking at this in the first instance. However I would still be inclined to get vet out for a full work-up and see what might be going on. If your vet practice has an Equinosis lameness diagnostic machine this might be a very useful piece of kit in this instance - if they haven't got one themselves it might be worth asking if they can refer you to a practice/vet hospital, which has one, as it might well be very informative about what might be going on and could save you a fair bit of £££ in the long-run if used early on as a diagnostic measure.
motherof2beasts!
Well-Known Member
It was £1100 but that was 3 years ago now so might be a bit more but should be within 3k , think MRIs are more expensive but he didn’t have one of them but full X-rays in back/neck/SI and all legs !
Char1995
Member
Thank you! I was expecting a lot worse truthfully
Char1995
Member
Definitely going to get the vet down to check him over. I don’t believe it’s the saddle but of course I could be wrong! He’s had it since about June last year and has been checked twice so I wouldn’t say it’s too new to him. It was last checked around 2 months ago and still fit him absolutely fine according to the fitted. His old saddle didn’t fit him at all, was far too long on his back and just an overall bad fit, this is what he came with and he would do small rears with this one yet I was always told it was napping before I ended up getting it checked. He stopped doing this for a while after having a new saddle then slowly started again. Do keep thinking there’s something else going on with the behaviour progressing recently and displaying different behaviours he’s never done before