Horse running off whilst leading...

[crystalclear]

I'll try and be be Brief! Had said horse for 6 years. When he first arrived he had unfortunately already learnt he was stronger than a person on the floor and use to just put his head down and run off as and when he felt like it, literally every two steps. Fast forward to now, he's ace riding but on the floor, it's more cheekiness now. If he decides to run as there is some nice grass for example, he will.

What head collar, devices or possible bit do you recommend for leading a horse who becomes so strong when they want to run off they do?

Have tried him in rope halter. Have had numerous people out to see him over the years but just looking for something for that odd time he decides he's going!

Thank you

 

[Sarah W]

My Welsh Section D was (and still is occasionally!) the same - didn't go far, but just wanted to make the point that he could. I got a Dually (Monty Roberts) halter which stops him in his stride immediately and I feel is much more humane than thin rope halters.

 

[crystalclear]

This is exactly what he does! Did you find the thin rope halters stopped yours? They don't stop mine!

 

[Dollysox]

I used to use a BeNice halter on my thug of a gelding who used to try and rear up then tank off with me when being led. It worked brilliantly.

 

[Count Oggy]

I have just abandoned a rope halter after loosing W three days in a row. He runs off then turns away from you with the leadrope on the outside to really make sure you can't hold him (if he can trap you against a wall for bonus points he will). I had some success with a dually halter but the only thing that really works it a rope around the nose in the summer or chain in the winter when his behaviour is worse. I hate using it but when he is well behaved it has no action at all and when he runs off it stops him dead. Every time I think he has stopped tanking off and go back to a normal headcollar, he takes advantage immediately so I'm sticking with the horrid chain.

 

[crystalclear]

I haven't tried a chain but have tried rope around the nose. He is such a sod, when he's going there is in no way you can stop him, such a little monkey! Oh, if I have sweets in my pocket, he some how manages to stay with me, but I would prefer a better idea!

 

[Micropony]

Bought a Dually for my big horse when it was time to start small paddock turnout after a long spell on box rest. We had to walk through three fields to get to his tiny paddock, and after being cooped up for so long I was concerned theb temptation might be too much! Did a short session in the school to ensure he understood what it was about, and he never challenged it.

It didn't get much use with him, but did get lent to a couple of other liveries who had horses that were bad to lead, and it seemed to do the trick for them.

Have always thought those be-nice halters look a bit scary tbh, but safety first and all that!

 

[Auslander]

I use one of these on Spike, who thought it was hilarious to disappear like lightening when he felt the urge! It lived on his headcollar, and was perfect for those days when he made a bid for freedom! It attaches to the ring below the ear, goes down, through the sidering of the noseband, over the nose and through the opposite ring before clipping to the leadrope, so you have pressure on the off side of the head.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/detachabl...hash=item5aefccb8b9:m:m31arqfFMK4FZccWx652bNw

 

[crystalclear]

Thank you micropony - I just wonder as mine knows his own strength. Unfortunately he knows that if he wants to be cheeky to eat the grass or whatever, he just puts his head down, turns his head and goes. Literally, nothing you can do!

 

[crystalclear]

I use one of these on Spike, who thought it was hilarious to disappear like lightening when he felt the urge! It lived on his headcollar, and was perfect for those days when he made a bid for freedom! It attaches to the ring below the ear, goes down, through the sidering of the noseband, over the nose and through the opposite ring before clipping to the leadrope, so you have pressure on the off side of the head.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/detachabl...hash=item5aefccb8b9:m:m31arqfFMK4FZccWx652bNw

Ooooooooooh Will have a look. Sounds very similar to mine!

 

[AppyLover]

I use one of these on Spike, who thought it was hilarious to disappear like lightening when he felt the urge! It lived on his headcollar, and was perfect for those days when he made a bid for freedom! It attaches to the ring below the ear, goes down, through the sidering of the noseband, over the nose and through the opposite ring before clipping to the leadrope, so you have pressure on the off side of the head.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/detachabl...hash=item5aefccb8b9:m:m31arqfFMK4FZccWx652bNw

Ooo think I might have to order one


I want a dually but can't justify the money on something he doesn't need all the time (9 times out of 10 he manages to contain his excitement) but for less than 4 quid I might as well

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I haven't tried a chain but have tried rope around the nose. He is such a sod, when he's going there is in no way you can stop him, such a little monkey! Oh, if I have sweets in my pocket, he some how manages to stay with me, but I would prefer a better idea!

There is no better idea than one that works! The handler has to be cleverer than the horse. I use rope halters as a matter of course, with food rewards at various points along the way, when the horse does as asked, e.g. stop, turn, and a schooling whip to hold in front of the horse if will speed up or to swish towards the quarters if it plants. To stop a horse tanking off in hand hounded to keep it thinking about you, just as you do. when ridden

 

[Boulty]

I'd say pick a tool you're confident using, (I'd use at least a 12 foot rope to give yourself more chance of holding onto him) wear gloves when leading to avoid ropeburn and then do lots and lots and lots and lots of groundwork exercises (seek the help of a good instructor who has experience in this area / with this problem if you're unsure of what groundwork exercises will help improve him or what equipment is most apropriate (if he leads well in a bridle then perhaps use that with a line attached as a starting point) but basically you want him to learn that stop means stop every single time you ask with absolutely no exceptions and to be able to get him to yield his shoulders or quarters at will with minimal fuss) and make sure you do a little every day and that you're consistent in what you ask and what he can get away with

 

[Enfys]

Of course it all depends on the horse, his stage of training etc, I wouldn't do the following with a nervous horse or youngster etc, a case of knowing the horse you have at the end of the line. It goes without saying, but I will anyway, that I do a lot of groundwork as well.

I had a Haffy that used to do this, head down and plough a furrow in the ground whilst he towed all behind him, he knew the rules, he just wanted to go where he wanted, when he wanted.

Try this, try that, I was told, in the end I got fed up with it,

Dually - "well haha!" he said "You're having a joke aren't you?!"

Rope over his nose, same,

Bit - same,

after he'd done it once too often and stomped over me I put a dog choke chain under his chin (to bring his head up) clipped a lead line to the end rings and he got a damn good yank. He looked at me like "Woooooooooo, what the ...? "

He tried that trick twice, and he didn't like the response it evoked, after that every time he had a chain on he was like a lamb, try to lead him without it and he'd be up to his old tricks again, he knew what that chain was for and it only took the lightest rattle and an "Oi, manners!" and he was a sweetie.

Now, a choke chain is permanently in my box of tricks, I don't faff about being nicey, nicey anymore, bargey horses aren't being nice to me. They learn very quickly, in fact, no, they don't learn, they remember what they already know. I like chains because they release so quickly, and the sound they make is more often than not a cue in itself. I have never, ever, created a headshy, frightened or aggressive horse by using a chain, just one that listened and understood the rules and above all one that wasn't going to injure anyone in his path, including himself.

 

[SatsumaGirl]

I've got one that does this. He came to me having already learnt this behaviour and when he first arrived, it was dangerous. He'd run off without a second thought and would happily plow over whoever happened to be standing in the way at the time.

The only thing I have found works, is a chifney. You still have to be one step ahead as 10% of the time, he may get ahead of you and still diddle off (or if he's very stressed - say the vet is out or when he got freezemarked - that was fun...!). In general, it is the only thing I feel confident and safe using.

Call me hypocrital but I bought a slightly thicker, plastic 'humane' chifney (it's listed on eBay as EHRA Equibit) as I feel happier using it, rather than a normal one, which I worried if he pulled hard enough, it may cut the corners of his mouth as I've seen that happen with another horse.

I agree with what someone else said; use gloves and a very long rope so you have more to hold on to should he pull away.

 

[crystalclear]

Thanks all, has given me something to think about. I'm afraid even a long rope, gloves etc doesn't work. He has improved ten fold since he has arrived, I like my horses to be as 'perfect' as possible, I've spent a lot of time hours, sweat and tears over him. Like I say we can quite often lead happily, there's just the odd time he decides to go and that's it. Until you experience a horse like that it's tricky to properly understand. It's not just a gentle runnning off with warning, once they go they go. There is no stopping them. Unfortunately learnt behaviour is hard to change, but going from not being able to move two paces without running off, to where we are now, I don't reckon we've done bad. You have most certainly given me some ideas. I looked at the dually before but was t sure if it'd work

 

[crystalclear]

Of course it all depends on the horse, his stage of training etc, I wouldn't do the following with a nervous horse or youngster etc, a case of knowing the horse you have at the end of the line. It goes without saying, but I will anyway, that I do a lot of groundwork as well.

I had a Haffy that used to do this, head down and plough a furrow in the ground whilst he towed all behind him, he knew the rules, he just wanted to go where he wanted, when he wanted.

Try this, try that, I was told, in the end I got fed up with it,

Dually - "well haha!" he said "You're having a joke aren't you?!"

Rope over his nose, same,

Bit - same,

after he'd done it once too often and stomped over me I put a dog choke chain under his chin (to bring his head up) clipped a lead line to the end rings and he got a damn good yank. He looked at me like "Woooooooooo, what the ...? "

He tried that trick twice, and he didn't like the response it evoked, after that every time he had a chain on he was like a lamb, try to lead him without it and he'd be up to his old tricks again, he knew what that chain was for and it only took the lightest rattle and an "Oi, manners!" and he was a sweetie.

Now, a choke chain is permanently in my box of tricks, I don't faff about being nicey, nicey anymore, bargey horses aren't being nice to me. They learn very quickly, in fact, no, they don't learn, they remember what they already know. I like chains because they release so quickly, and the sound they make is more often than not a cue in itself. I have never, ever, created a headshy, frightened or aggressive horse by using a chain, just one that listened and understood the rules and above all one that wasn't going to injure anyone in his path, including himself.

You sound like you're describing him exactly! He knows the rules completely!

 

[FfionWinnie]

It's a very bad habit as once learned they never totally unlearn it. I think the handler just gets more switched on to it. It's always in the back of the horse's mind waiting for an opportunity in my experience.

My D did it all the time when I got her. It was well engrained by age 7 and she is incredibly strong, the first time I brought her in she got away from me three times. No amount of long rope helped as once she was past the point of no return (within a second) there was no stopping her. She even got away from me in a bridle.

I've had her 8 months and she hasn't done it for about 3 months and it became less and less often before that. I still wouldn't say she is cured tho and I don't like letting anyone else hold her because outwardly she is now very very well trained and stands perfectly, leads perfectly, which makes them complacent and I know she is likely to do it again. Doesn't matter how much I say to them either, they think I am over reacting and she's an angel (rolls eyes!).

I got a thin rope halter made, with an additional thin rope loop on the nose, which tightens if she pulls away. This has definitely been the thing that has helped me but also being on my guard all the time and never trusting her an inch plus hours of in hand work and generally making sure she respects me at all times.

 

[Puddleduck]

Mine did the same when I got him last year. Used to set his neck and then run through his off shoulder to try and get you off balance.
It was just downright rudeness so he was led with a chain as well as his normal rope. As soon as he went to dive off he got a tug on the chain, soon learned to give up and is now lovely and polite to lead.
He tried the same trick when I asked him to load in the lorry. Got to the bottom of the ramp, planted and then tried to haul me across the yard so on went the chain and hey ho he loads like a quiet little lamb.
Dragging is rude and dangerous and I won't tolerate it especially when I'm not asking my horse to do anything that's unreasonable or difficult for him to do. He's sharp and has learned in his past how to intimidate people. It only took a couple of times with the chain to get him on side, no hauling or fighting, just a short sharp tug and then release once he gave. He can now be led to the field and brought back in on the end of a rope with two others.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

CF was very similar - would bog off in hand as the mood took him when he arrived, appeared long term learned behaviour and was done in THE most cheerful way with a set neck and shoulder charge.....
Favourite was coming out of a stable, or off the lorry.
Soon put a stop to it by putting some old bits of bridle together - headpiece, 2 x cheek pieces and a dutch 2 ring bit attached with lead rope. (no reins, noseband or browband to complicate popping on swiftly).
Made sure that when in a headcollar, that the bitsa bridle was popped over the top and he was led from this. Stopped him in his tracks immediately.
However, never took him for granted as he just KNEW if bridle wasn't on and would try a drag for freedom, little sod.

 

[Auslander]

CF was very similar - would bog off in hand as the mood took him when he arrived, appeared long term learned behaviour and was done in THE most cheerful way with a set neck and shoulder charge.....
Favourite was coming out of a stable, or off the lorry.
Soon put a stop to it by putting some old bits of bridle together - headpiece, 2 x cheek pieces and a dutch 2 ring bit attached with lead rope. (no reins, noseband or browband to complicate popping on swiftly).
Made sure that when in a headcollar, that the bitsa bridle was popped over the top and he was led from this. Stopped him in his tracks immediately.
However, never took him for granted as he just KNEW if bridle wasn't on and would try a drag for freedom, little sod.

Sounds just like Spike! He spent 20 years perfecting the art, and took great pleasure in doing it - there was no way I was going to be able to train that trick out of him! High point of his day, when he managed to get away from me!

This was the aftermath of one of his "disappearances"!! https://www.facebook.com/ally.gau/videos/vb.674180729/10152845865455730/?type=3&theater

 

[ironhorse]

I used a bridle on my cob, just with his normal reins because he respected the bridle, but if you think he still might get away from you, a coupling and long lead rope avoids the cost of broken reins.
you can do it with a rope halter and long lead but it's more about technique than strength. You say you've put a lot of time into it, but does this include doing some proper groundwork in a school so that he learns not to do it?
If he's turning his head away from you, you have to improve your timing and stop him before he gets any further, and this takes practice - you need to be able to disengage his hindquarters and get his head back to you and shoulders away. If you are struggling, you really need some help from a professional with a lot of experience in groundwork. Even if you have to pay for a couple of sessions it's worth it - horses that are strong to lead are dangerous and could hurt you or themselves or even cause a road accident.

 

[3OldPonies]

When H was a bratty new boy (think wilful cob used to doing his own thing and frightening the life out of his old owner), I used to lead with two lead ropes. One attached as normal the other had a chain end that I threaded over the nose. if he lead well then no need to bring the chain into effect, if he pulled then I allowed the chain to tighten. It might sound a bit barbaric to some on here (it did to me at first) but it only took a few goes for him to get the idea. He was about 17 at that point in his life - he's 38 now and has never had to relearn the lesson.

 

[crystalclear]

Thanks all, sounds like they learnt with the chain most of yours! I shall keep you updated

 

[mandyroberts]

Chiffeney - my old boy is 16.3 and although not deliberately naughty just seems to forget little me is on the end of the lead rope, and when I am leading 2 its impossible. Also got one for my younger horse after he squealed and reared up at me because he didn't want to come in. I only use it when he has that look in his eye. But you do need to be gentle with it, you can't panic and have a good yank

 

[wills_91]

I use a dually with mine but what works for one won't work with another. Did some ground work with her in the school so she knew what it was about and never looked back. I use it as her every day head collar as you can have the rope clipped onto the underside anyway.

 

[FlashyP]

I had awful issues with one of my horses rearing and pulling away from me when leading in windy/stormy weather, ended up on my bum in the mud a few times! Someone suggested I look into Warwick Schiller, I did and my relationship with both my horses has been transformed. Not allowing them to barge into your personal space is one of the main principles and always leading them behind you, with about a three foot distance between you and the horse. The horse should be focused on you, so if you stop, it stops, if you back up, it backs up, etc. Worked amazingly for me and we've had some crap weather since I started this, I live in Scotland I used to be scared to fetch her in when the weather was bad as I didn't know how to deal with it and it was dangerous. There's a good youtube video with him explaining the leading thing, I'll try and link to it. Might not be right for you, but it's worked so well for me that I thought I'd mention it. Good luck and keep safe!
Found it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1kl2iIpWqg&sns=em

 

[Annagain]

All these horses are Section Ds I take it . Mine loved taking me concrete skiing. His favourite trick was a flick of the shoulder beforehand to knock me off balance which meant I couldn't react quickly enough when he went.
The best was when my 17st rugby playing OH (in the early days when he pretended to like the horses and was still trying to impress me) saw him do it to me and said, "Give him here, he won't be able to do it to me". I swear Eb was laughing as he dragged him 40m to the grass.

A bridle - again just headpiece and cheekpieces to make it easier to put on - and lunge line worked with him, although if I was taking him more than about 40m I'd jump on and ride him, he never did it if I was on board, even if he was just in a headcollar.

A friend has a headcollar with chain over the nose for her bolshy horse which she swears by.

 

[Maesfen]

Enfys has written the definitive reply. Absolutely, totally agree with her.

You must knock this on the head before someone gets hurt, beggar being kind to a thug. What would happen if someone else had to handle him that didn't know of this, they could get badly hurt; totally unfair to anyone to not get him sorted once and for all.

Never think he's learned his lesson, never leave off the chain; they know when you've let down your guard and will always take advantage so man up and don't let them; it's too dangerous for anyone to ignore.

 

[Crackerz]

Of course it all depends on the horse, his stage of training etc, I wouldn't do the following with a nervous horse or youngster etc, a case of knowing the horse you have at the end of the line. It goes without saying, but I will anyway, that I do a lot of groundwork as well.

I had a Haffy that used to do this, head down and plough a furrow in the ground whilst he towed all behind him, he knew the rules, he just wanted to go where he wanted, when he wanted.

Try this, try that, I was told, in the end I got fed up with it,

Dually - "well haha!" he said "You're having a joke aren't you?!"

Rope over his nose, same,

Bit - same,

after he'd done it once too often and stomped over me I put a dog choke chain under his chin (to bring his head up) clipped a lead line to the end rings and he got a damn good yank. He looked at me like "Woooooooooo, what the ...? "

He tried that trick twice, and he didn't like the response it evoked, after that every time he had a chain on he was like a lamb, try to lead him without it and he'd be up to his old tricks again, he knew what that chain was for and it only took the lightest rattle and an "Oi, manners!" and he was a sweetie.

Now, a choke chain is permanently in my box of tricks, I don't faff about being nicey, nicey anymore, bargey horses aren't being nice to me. They learn very quickly, in fact, no, they don't learn, they remember what they already know. I like chains because they release so quickly, and the sound they make is more often than not a cue in itself. I have never, ever, created a headshy, frightened or aggressive horse by using a chain, just one that listened and understood the rules and above all one that wasn't going to injure anyone in his path, including himself.

I have never thought of a chain used like that - what a fab idea, thank you