Horse sale about to fall through because of melanomas - WWYD??

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DMX

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I am totally thrown as I thought the sale of my horse was ticking along perfectly! The buyers came top see him on Sunday and he was perfect for their needs. They are such lovely people which made the whole experience so much easier.

We agreed the price and the vetting was arranged for yesterday morning. I was present and it was all going very well. The vet picked up on one under the tail and 4 small ones near the anus but she said this is extremely common in Grey horses of a certain age. I had not spotted them before so was taken by suprise. She said that it could not be an issue in the future at all so I stopped worrying about it. She was extremely positive throughout the vetting and her flew through a 5 stage vetting with her saying how well it went after.

The vet made contact with the buyers explaining the risks of melanomas, etc. This has put them off. I had no knowledge of the melanomas and have since had to research on them to know more. The information is unclear. I really didn't want to loose these buyers so called around for further advice and decided to drop the price by £1K to factor this finding into price.

I have called them back to say I understand their reasons but perhaps the drop in price would be some food for thought. I am just so gutted as the home was perfect for my horse but he is in such good condition and not worth giving away!

Any experiences with the above? Would would you do as buyer or seller?

Gutted!!!
 
I would drop the price given the finding but £1,000 is a big drop. How much is he for without the drop? PM if you prefer
 
The issue I have with things like this turning up on the vetting is althought they might not effect the horses being fit for purpose it will mean exlusions on an insurance policy. I would have to weigh up what it might cost me in future for vet bills on something that is not insured and how likely they are to effect the horse.
 
You should probably look for more knowledgable buyers, and/or hope
the current people can get some experienced advice. I am currently on
grey ponies numbers 3 and 4 - all have had melanomas under their tail
and round their anus. There have been no problems with these, and no
other tumours, except in one pony (but not till her mid-20s...). What
a shame these people are being deterred from buying a lovely horse.
 
HayleyDL said:
I would drop the price given the finding but £1,000 is a big drop. How much is he for without the drop? PM if you prefer
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^ This

Don't worry though. It is a very common thing in greys and if this buyer isn't happy then disclose it on future interest. There will be many it doesn't put off and many it will - as with anything; colour, age, vices, illness etc etc
 
ossy said:
The issue I have with things like this turning up on the vetting is althought they might not effect the horses being fit for purpose it will mean exlusions on an insurance policy. I would have to weigh up what it might cost me in future for vet bills on something that is not insured and how likely they are to effect the horse.
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Thats the issue the buyer has and I TOTALLY understand. he is the perfect horse for them and 100% sound, having 'passed' all the vetting stages.
 
How much was he to begin with?

1k is a big drop on a 2k horse, not very significant if he was 10k!

If they are the right home, I'd take less money and let him go - you'll find him difficult to sell for the price you wanted with melanomas unfortunately.
 
blackislegirl said:
You should probably look for more knowledgable buyers, and/or hope
the current people can get some experienced advice. I am currently on
grey ponies numbers 3 and 4 - all have had melanomas under their tail
and round their anus. There have been no problems with these, and no
other tumours, except in one pony (but not till her mid-20s...). What
a shame these people are being deterred from buying a lovely horse.
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends on people's experiences and advice given. Their instructor has said don't touch with bargepole - someone they trust. They are inexperienced, as am I, so I understand that they would take this person's advice very seriously.
 
Most greys do get them at some stage. But how the vet can say they won't ever be a problem puzzles me. Because its not unheard of for them to grow internally at some point & cause issues or even pts. Whether or not I'd buy would depend on the horses age, & how long they'd been present. One that had them as a youngster, no. Whereas one 10+ that's had them unchanged for a few years, no. The fact you hadn't noticed them would put me off though, as my first thought would be they've all suddenly grown recently which could mean more will.
 
xspiralx said:
How much was he to begin with?

1k is a big drop on a 2k horse, not very significant if he was 10k!

If they are the right home, I'd take less money and let him go - you'll find him difficult to sell for the price you wanted with melanomas unfortunately.
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For the sake of this exercise - would you see £1K off a £4.5K horse as fair? Another vety I spoke to said it would not cost more that £1K for a worst scenario treatment - but that cannot be accurate as it could be an ongoing issue.....
 
blackislegirl said:
You should probably look for more knowledgable buyers, and/or hope
the current people can get some experienced advice. I am currently on
grey ponies numbers 3 and 4 - all have had melanomas under their tail
and round their anus. There have been no problems with these, and no
other tumours, except in one pony (but not till her mid-20s...). What
a shame these people are being deterred from buying a lovely horse.
Click to expand...

I bought a Grey mare aged 8 and she had no melanomas at the time (was vetted) 18 months later she developed melanomas under her tail, they are slowly increasing in size and number she is 12 now.

I knew the risks of buying a grey at the time and have to say based on my experience with this mare would never buy another grey, I wouldn't have bought this one if she had shown to have them at the vetting. Whilst they cause her no problems at the moment it has led to exclusions on the insurance and whilst I can see what is on the outside I am more concerned about what might be on the inside...

I spent over £500 on cimetidine for my mare and it did not make any difference at all, it is not something which can be treated...

Probably not what you want to hear but just wanted to give the other side of the coin
 
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Littlelegs said:
Most greys do get them at some stage. But how the vet can say they won't ever be a problem puzzles me. Because its not unheard of for them to grow internally at some point & cause issues or even pts. Whether or not I'd buy would depend on the horses age, & how long they'd been present. One that had them as a youngster, no. Whereas one 10+ that's had them unchanged for a few years, no. The fact you hadn't noticed them would put me off though, as my first thought would be they've all suddenly grown recently which could mean more will.
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I am not an experiuenced horse person and clean his dock accpossinally - I have never noticed them. The buyer trusts me and we are speaking very openly but i can see how that would put future buyers off. I will ofcoarse, tell them before they came to view the horse now that I know.

The vet told me there is probably nothing to worry about but gave the buyer a lot more detailed info on the risks, etc.
 
DMX said:
Another vet I spoke to said it would not cost more that £1K for a worst scenario treatment - but that cannot be accurate as it could be an ongoing issue.....
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Do not agree with that at all. Worst case can be a huge bill and pts. The worst thing I've ever witnessed with a horse was melanoma related. This was the extreme end and certainly not the day-to-day living with them, but do not agree with that figure in the slightest as a worst case. You may also have to change management in addition to medications/surgery and call outs which all adds up.
 
PandorasJar said:
Do not agree with that at all. Worst case can be a huge bill and pts. The worst thing I've ever witnessed with a horse was melanoma related. This was the extreme end and certainly not the day-to-day living with them, but do not agree with that figure in the slightest as a worst case. You may also have to change management in addition to medications/surgery and call outs which all adds up.
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Good point - goodness, I am absolutely gutted - knew nothing about melanomas and now this!!!!
 
Actually I wouldn't drop the price as this smacks of desperation and trying to offload the horse. If I was a buyer in this situation I'd be suspicious and think I did have something to worry about.
 
I have owned and subsequently sold a mare that had them. Unfortunately, they are very unpredictable, in that they can be quite stable in size for a long time, and then get worse and affect their health. Littlelegs has described how unpredictable they can be quite well.

It is a risk that really only a buyer can decide if its worth the risk, and whether a drop in price will affect their decision.

I bought her at 4, and retired her to breed from at 9 but given she was unable to keep a foal after a few years of trying (a whole other story!!), I sold her when she was 13. At this stage she had a few but they were not causing her problems, and we discussed the risk with our vet / the new owners / their vet at the time. They proceeded, as she wasn't a lot of money, however she is now retired and unfortunately is not very well, which is very sad as she is only 16.

I don't mean to put a bad spin on it, but I think the point is it is a risk as you can never tell how they will develop, so its hard to put a value on it.

Both the new owners (who will have her until she passes) and my family love that mare, she is a very, very special horse, but I have to say the whole experience has put me off greys as not only is it heartbreaking when they suffer, but from a practical point of view makes them difficult to sell. Incidentally, I had never intended to sell her, but given her failure as a broodmare she was being wasted in the paddock, and we found her a lovely home as a schoolmaster for a talented young rider, so we thought it was the best thing to do at the time.

ETA - when we were selling her and discussing it with our vet and their vet, neither vet reccommended treatment. They advised it was invasive and expensive, and can often trigger them to get worse.
 
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My grey mare had no sig of them until she was 11 then they grew under her tail and in her lymph glands on either side of her jaw. They are massive, i had z vet come out to check them over when she was 12 and he said they would grow internal since they were in her lymph glands and she would have 6 years left before she started with colic symptoms and loss of weight. She is now 23 and fit as a fiddle, she has to have a special browband to fit over them but they cause her no problems. I am sure when it is her time that will be the reason she passes but the vets was so wrong! The horses do not kmow they have melanomas, tbey cause no pain etc, you can have them removed but there is the chance they will grow back twice as bad. I believenin leavjng things be.
My new horse, well i say new butnhad him over 2 years, has 2 marble size balls near his girth area, they are covered in hair etc. I had him vetted he passed all the vetting bar these lumps but knew that he would fail on those. She wanted £6500 originally for him but i loved him and he was going to a good experienced home, got him for £3800. I decided at that price i could risk the nodules. He still has them, theynhave not grown and i am leaving them alone. So some peolle will not be bothered, chin up someone will look past that dependant on price and age.
 
DMX said:
Good point - goodness, I am absolutely gutted - knew nothing about melanomas and now this!!!!
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Sorry I don't mean to scare.

I've ridden two. One was very bad, the other had large ones but has yet to make a scrap of odds at 21. It's very common and just as often as problems, there are ones who don't make an odds to the horse.

As with anything some people will buy regardless and others will not take the risk. Every horse comes with a risk and it's down to an individual which ones are deal breakers.

I just didn't agree in the slightest with the worst case scenario given by the vet, it's a big thing to state and very misleading. Same as a small nick could require a wash and be fine, or cellulitis could occur and several hundred pounds later cut is fine. If that makes any sense!
 
I'll tell you my experience. My grey has had one on his tail since a 4yo. It stayed the same for years and another, smaller one appeared above it. Last year, when he was 10, the larger one grew much bigger, from marble to golf ball size in a few months. we've spent £1K on cimetidine and he's currently having cisplatin injections (the fear is that it could rupture, its not operable where it is). Another vet noted the larger one down on his vet records several years ago-I was worried but upfront with the insurers (vet also said that treatment wasn't needed before this time) and they have paid up.

I love a grey but won't have another. I understand that they may not cause problems in many horses but I have personally known too many where they do. My boy is sore and miserable and frankly I hate myself for putting him through it. They'll be no further treatment for it except supportive as long as humanely possible. I panic if I think he's even slightly colicky and worry so much about the ones I can't see.

Probably not what you want to hear, sorry-but this is very current for me and very upsetting having just successfully rehabbed him from a stifle problem.
 
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I'm not having a go about you not noticing them op, I'm just saying from a buyers pov its possible to imagine they've all just sprung up, & dealing with a few stable melanomas is very different to a cluster of rapid growing ones. My mare will be 24 soon, & has had a few under her dock since her teens, that haven't ever caused issues. Last summer quite a few all sprang up, some under her dock & a handful of pea size ones on her body. They all appeared & grew very quickly. And whilst they did then stabilize & no more have appeared, again causing no issues, the not knowing if they'd stabilize or kill an otherwise very healthy & much loved pet wasn't pleasant. Another like her, yes I'd buy. But I wouldn't take one on unless I was reasonably certain they would remain stable. And nobody can actually guarantee what will happen, especially because when they are fatal, they are nearly always internal ones that cause the issues. And you can't see the internal ones. My mare could start showing signs of mild colic from internal ones tonight & be gone by morning, or she might be pts cos of arthritis at 45. And given hers are stable at the mo, its a possibility I can live with, same as any healthy horse could break a leg turned out etc. But very different if they aren't stable.
I think with yours, if he doesn't sell now, take detailed pics of them as they are, & get a copy of the vets report. Then re-advertise in a few months. I'd be more willing to buy if I could see they hadn't changed for a while. Or, offer lwvtb, subject to melanomas remaining unchanged for next six months.
 
I have a grey mare who has two melanomas which appeared when she was 11, one on her eyelid and one on the dock, they are both the size of a pea and have not increased in size in two years, shes now 13. As regards selling its like all these things that horses can have wrong, sarcoids,splints, respiratory, feet problems, you will get someone come along who likes the horse so much they will buy regardless of problem or they wont have the animal vetted, this has happened to me several times when I worried a horse would not sell. Inexperienced people are not generally knowledgable enough to make a decision thenselves so will rely on professionals who will obviously want to cover their backs in case the worst case scenario does happen.
 
I didn't mean to sound blasé or complacent about melanomas.
I'm not. But being stuck with greys (as I have had connies and
connie crosses) I have had to come to terms with the risks. Most
melanomas in greys are benign and remain so. Most, not all.

I am very conscious of lumps. I keep an eye on anything out of the
ordinary in the skins of my beasties, lumps under the tail an all.. Like littlelegs
says, there could be internal tumours which could cause huge issues next month.
Or there could not be. I think if you own horses you have to come
to a balanced position. You can be risk-aware and health conscious,
or at the other extreme you can become a neurotic worrier. (I am
usually the first, but have had episodes of being the second.)

I lost one pony at the age of 25, pts because of a benign tumour that was in
an awkward place and causing mechanical obstruction. Should I have not
bought her at age 8, and not have had 17 1/2 wonderful years of her
company? Sadly, horses don't live forever (or even long enough...)
 
I have a grey horse who has several small melanomas under his tail. These don't affect him at all & he has had them for 5-ish years now, growing very slowly every year so they are now pea-sized.

However last year I discovered that he had a large (egg-sized) melanoma under the skin on his head. Because of the location close to both his eye and ear, vet recommended surgery. This was quick, melanoma was a simple spherical structure and no problems post-surgery.
Surgery to remove it cost me €500.
I think offering a price reduction is a good idea but, as you can see from example, the vet bills can add up pretty quickly if the melanomas need to be surgically removed/treated. It's easy to see why a buyer might be put off.

I wish you the best in finding a good home for your horse OP
Maxie
 
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maxie said:
I have a grey horse who has several small melanomas under his tail. These don't affect him at all & he has had them for 5-ish years now, growing very slowly every year so they are now pea-sized.

However last year I discovered that he had a large (egg-sized) melanoma under the skin on his head. Because of the location close to both his eye and ear, vet recommended surgery. This was quick, melanoma was a simple spherical structure and no problems post-surgery.
Surgery to remove it cost me €500.
I think offering a price reduction is a good idea but, as you can see from example, the vet bills can add up pretty quickly if the melanomas need to be surgically removed/treated. It's easy to see why a buyer might be put off.

I wish you the best in finding a good home for your horse OP
Maxie
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Thanks Maxie!

I feel like a plonker for not noticing them. TBH, I sponge his dock seldom and have never noticed the ones around the anus as they are tiny. I probably would not have been concerned if I HAD noticed them either!!

I can also see the risks in rising vet costs for the buyer. I am hoping they will accept my lower asking price as I cannot afford to give him away.
 
My 13 year old boy - who had no melanomas when I bought him 6 1/2 years ago now has 4 or 5 round his tail, in his mane line, one in his mouth and one in his neck. They don't cause him any worry now but I can see a time when they might. It doesn't worry me because he will never be sold anyway due to PSD. Also I adore him :D

I think the fact is that there are a lot of horses for sale - whilst you love the horse you have, warts and all, why buy a problem? There are enough around without a potential veterinary issue. Some may think the risk is worth it, not everyone though. I hope that it turns out well for you :)
 
I used to look after a lovely flea bitten grey whose small melanomas eventually became large, and to cut a sad story short, internal melanomas brought about his demise. Having said that, if someone loves the horse, I think it is a risk worth taking, at the right price. One just has to be aware of the possible outcome.
 
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