Horse sales dispute. Any help/views most welcome.

[PatriciaO]

ANY HELP WELCOME:
I was asked to sell a horse on behalf of a friend who had cancer. I was also given a 6 week option to buy the horse myself at an agreed price but to agree to proactively market the horse for sale in the interim in case I could not raise the funds. I agreed to this. Shortly after the horse arrived, another friend asked to buy the horse for her adult daughter. The daughter tried the horse and they agreed to buy him, subject to vet. They knew the horse was being sold for the other friend and was not owned by me. The horse was a 5 yo and a real nice sports horse type and was bought for a professional rider (the daughter). During the vetting, the horse bucked me off and knocked me out. I was hospitalized. The buyers were notified the same day by people who were with me during the incident and also the vet. The buyers asked the vet to return to complete the vetting and said they still wished to buy the horse, if he passed the final vetting assessment, which he did. The buyer was waiting for funds to come from abroad in order to complete the purchase but it was agreed the horse could be taken pending payment. The horse was with the buyer for 8 days before payment was made. During that time they rode him in an arena, out hacking and had a lesson on him with a trainer. After the horse had been with the buyer for just short of three weeks (and after they had repeatedly praised him in a range of scenarios), the buyer telephoned to say the horse had bucked the daughter off and as such they were demanding a full refund and return of the horse. The funds had gone to the seller of the horse at the point of receipt. Neither the buyer or the seller will speak with each other and both are demanding that I take responsibility for the matters. The seller will not refund or take the horse back and the buyer will not budge on demanding the return and refund plus an additional £1,500 in costs to keep the horse (even though he has been in field at their own premises). As far as my status is concerned, I would not class myself as a dealer although I do buy one or two horses generally as 3 year olds and produce them until they are 5 through the age classes before I then sell them. One or two a year (maximum). My primary income is not from horses as I have a job as a teacher. Apart from seeking legal advice (which I am in the process of doing), I would be welcome any objective views on my scenario. Apart from feeling somewhat let down by two so called friends, I am at a loss as to where this is likely to end up or what to do.

 

[jrp204]

You might get a better response if you post this in the 'Tack room'

 

[spacefaer]

Did he have a history of bucking? Had he bucked prior to the vetting incident? If so, had you (or the vendor) declared the buck?

In my (not expert) opinion, they knew he had a buck, they knew he had bucked you off during the vetting. It sounds like they had ample time to try him in a multitude of different situations, prior to actually paying for him - which they were very lucky to do. I don't think they have a leg to stand on in terms of returning him - but better legal brains than I may say different.

 

[ycbm]

You were acting as an agent. I don't believe the buyer has any claim against an agent, only against the owner. Take some legal advice, and if that is correct, stand back and let them fight it out.

The buyer is being totally unreasonable and I can't see that their case had a leg to stand on from the information that you have given.

 

[Red-1]

If you were not being paid to sell the horse, and were doing it as a friend for someone who could not show the horse themselves, and this was declared, hopefully in writing, then it is not really your issue.

I would give owner's details to purchaser. End of. Having said that, if it is a friend who is too ill to deal with it, then there will be a moral dilemma as to how you can help your friend, but that is a separate issue.

The buck was obviously declared, as it was the reason the vetting had to be finished on another day.

They bought privately as far as I can tell, and their legal rights are far less because of it.

Having said that, if the horse had an undeclared long history of bucking, and this was not a one off, then I would say it was mis-sold if the purchaser asked the question and it was wrongly answered.

I am not a legal bod, and I think you do right to get proper legal advice.

 

[benz]

I've returned a horse before that was bought from sales livery and I had to take it up with the owner of the horse not the agent despite never having dealt with the owner. I had transferred the funds to the owners bank account and that seems to be a way to determine who the sales contract was with. In the face of it they don't have much of a case seeing as how they knew horse had a buck in it!

 

[PatriciaO]

Thank you. No history of bucking. The buyer and the seller have each other's details and are basically refusing to speak to one another. Your words have made me feel a bit more sane though. Thank you!

 

[PatriciaO]

Thank you. I am sorry you went through issues too. It is a right old minefield out there. Yes, funds went to the owner.

 

[PatriciaO]

Thank you. The buyer is sadly very vocal and rather a bully and I think is relying on those tactics, which had started to make me count myself.

 

[PatriciaO]

I wasn't being paid livery but we had agreed that at the end of the sale any costs to keep the horse would be deducted. This wasn't done at a full livery rate though. No history of bucking either. Thanks for your time, I appreciate it.

 

[PatriciaO]

No history of bucking. He had been straightforward. Not a novice ride as still green and a real sporty type but very honest and well schooled for where he was at. Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

 

[PatriciaO]

Thank you really helpful.

 

[JillA]

As far as I can see they don't have any sort of case. They had him vetted, they saw him buck and still agreed to buy him so they knew he could. And they had him almost three weeks before they demanded he be returned - who knows what they did to or with him in the intervening period. If you are caught in the middle I would just say in effect this is nothing to do with you and refuse any further contact, and advise the seller to tell them to take them to court (small claims depending on the sum involved). Chances are they won't, the fees are quite high these days and their chances of success are low to zero given their prior knowledge and the almost three weeks.
I feel sorry for the horse.

 

[dixie]

You were acting as an agent. I don't believe the buyer has any claim against an agent, only against the owner. Take some legal advice, and if that is correct, stand back and let them fight it out.

The buyer is being totally unreasonable and I can't see that their case had a leg to stand on from the information that you have given.

I'm pretty sure, this is correct.
As I've said in my other post i know of a good equine lawyer in you're in need.

 

[PatriciaO]

i'm pretty sure, this is correct.
As i've said in my other post i know of a good equine lawyer in you're in need.

yes please. That would be awesome!

 

[PatriciaO]

As far as I can see they don't have any sort of case. They had him vetted, they saw him buck and still agreed to buy him so they knew he could. And they had him almost three weeks before they demanded he be returned - who knows what they did to or with him in the intervening period. If you are caught in the middle I would just say in effect this is nothing to do with you and refuse any further contact, and advise the seller to tell them to take them to court (small claims depending on the sum involved). Chances are they won't, the fees are quite high these days and their chances of success are low to zero given their prior knowledge and the almost three weeks.
I feel sorry for the horse.

I think they know I feel sorry for the horse too. He is really nice (or was). He really was just a young/sporty type and the vet himself said he got spooked during the vetting (probably why he bucked) as he had been lazy to trot up and the vet had chased him. He bucked me off when the vet came into the centre of the circle I was riding on. Really out of character. The sale price was £6,500 and the buyer has said she will go to court. To be honest, if he had been my horse I would have had him back and refunded the money purely because he was so nice and he obviously deserved a kinder/better home. I can only speculate but I feel they must have done something to cause the buck or simply not accepted a young horse reaction to a situation. We have no idea of the circumstances behind the issue they say warranted them demanding he be returned. Sadly, now the horse is apparently pretty feral and has been left in a field the last few months so I don't even know his condition. I think I need to step back and let it go to court if it must and get some good guidance but gosh, i can't believe things can get to this point. People are really not what you expect at times. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply.

 

[SusieT]

I would tell them to go to court then, and that they were aware the horse had previously bucked, so you can't help.
You could offer to sell the horse for them now..

 

[dixie]

yes please. That would be awesome!

I've messaged you.