horse selling nightmare anyone have advice??

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wynnwith

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I recently sold my 5yr old tb mare...

the advert said:

16.1 bay mare lovely temperement would make fantastic pc eventer. currently at grass due to lack of time hence sad sale. £1500

I bought her about a year and a half ago with the intention to bring on and sell but about a month after having her i fell pregnant and she has hardly done anything since - hence the reason for selling her. i found what i thought was a lovely home for her. she was picked up 10 days ago and i assumed everything was okay i text the new owner to see how she was going and was told she was lovely and all was well. ..... . that was until today when i had a call from new owner saying that he has looked up her history and she apparently fractured her hock when she was a 2 yr old, something of which i knew absolutely nothing about! the girl i bought her off looked after her at the training yard and she told me absolutely nothing about it so not too happy about that either!

Anyway to cut a lot story short he has told me i either give him money back or he will sue me for it as well as the costs of livery etc. he as also now said that the horse is unrideable and accused me of false advertising as she is also very naughty to ride. he bought her literally from the field he did not have her vetted i lunged her for him and trotted her up for him.

she has always been easy to do for me no problem in the stable or field the little work i had done with her she didnt put a foot wrong with me so im not sure what he has done to her to make her misbehave like this!

does he have a case against me? Also on the receipt for payment it does say sold as seen. i do feel genuinely bad that this has happened but i had no clue that she had this injury and i would not have even bought her myself if i knew!

sorry for the waffle any advice or opinions would be appreciated as new owner is now very threatening and i dont know what to do!
 
Do you have BHS gold membership? Or some insurance policy that would provide for some legal advice? Even your household policy might cover this.
My first thought is he hasn't got a leg to stand on because he a) can't prove you knew this (as you didn't!) and b) didn't get her vetted. It's a private sale, so buyer beware. Regardless of advice you get on this forum however, you need to be sure of where you stand.
If you don't have any insurance cover that would get you legal advice maybe Citizens Advice or Trading Standards could help.
p.s. I think you need to be careful about having any conversation with him about this, texts, letters etc. You're probably going to be advised to get everything in writing.
 
hiya thanks for advice i dont have bhs membership but maybe my horse insurance will help?i New owner is saying that i should not have put would make pc eventer and for that reason he can sue me but i also put currently at grass due to lack of time and made it very clear to him that she had not done anything at all! maybe i should not have put this in the ad but i genuinely thought she would make a nice eventer!
 
Did you have her vetted when you bought her - if she passed a vetting then there's no WAY he can claim against you. Even if you didn't, I assume you would have noticed if she'd been lame while you owned her.

Does he have PROOF that she fractured a hock at 2 - or is this hearsay?

As long as you are NOT a dealer - and as long as you didn't make any claims about her that were obviously wrong - then he hasn't a leg to stand on. And if he threatens you, report it to the police!! If he DOES decide to take you to court it would be Small Claims (so you don't need a solicitor, although a knowledgeable friend who knows the mare would be helpful.)
 
You'll get a lot of people giving their opinion on that question, if you're lucky one of the legal eagles here will chip in. I'd try not to worry too much for now, just get on the phone on Monday.
I'm sort of the opinion that his argument wouldn't stand up in court, but you need to get this sorted conclusively for once and for all, to get peace of mind.
 
When this happened to me a sort legal advice from my insurance company, solicitor, consumer direct. All saying they didn't have a chance of winning. As its buyer beware and is a private sale so does not have to be suitable for purpose. Long story short i lost. At the end of the day its all down to the judge on the day. Mine knew nothing about horses and believed the other persons lies. I proved them to be lying but he didn't care. I will never sell another horse. If you can tough it out then do. But it is very stressfull. PM me if you would like more details.
 
would make ......does not mean ........ will def make !!
hes trying his luck .
she was sold at grass with a receipt saying sold as seen.
i think hes calling your bluff.
he hasnt a case
 
i didnt have her vetted as she wasnt very expensive (like alot of ex racers) she has NEVER been lame with me EVER. it was her old trainer that told new owner about the fracture but new owner is now having xrays taken to prove this so he can take me to court. im not sure if the fact that i said she would make a nice eventer would would give him the means to sue me as apparently new owner was told by trainer that she should not be jumped due to fracture(i also have a picture of the stable girl i bought him off jumping her over a cross pole!)
 
Surely he would have to prove that you did know about the fracture? And if it says on the receipt sold as seen then I think it covers buyer beware and he should go whistle....
 
personally if you have put sold as seen, its his problem he has not has mare vetted.

You did put WOULD make eventer not HAS or IS an eventer.

to me sold as seen is a done deal.

but dont quote me on that.

I bought a sj mare who was an angel when I tried her out and now she is a super bitch I wouldnt dream of trying to take her back. you have to work through your problems with the horse (im just not as confident rider as the old owner)

she was recovering from an operation on her leg (just the cut left to heal) she had been kicked and the vet had taken her in to drain it. On my receipt states sold as seen. so in theory from what that guy says maybe I could take my mare back(i wouldnt) because it didnt state all her previous medical history on the receipt. to be honest If I was to sell my horse in the future I prob wouldnt say anything about it as there is no scar and she has not ever had a problem with it. so why would I need to tell them about something that has never been a problem.

Is the hock causing her problems and limiting what they can do with her such as no jumping etc?

some people just want to sue for everything.

I would join BHS gold membership or find someone who has it and get them to call the free legal help line. or check on your home or horse insurance
 
Its not always so cut and dried i'm affraid. If there is a small element of doubt then the court will side with the claiment. That is what the judge told me.
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personally, if it were me, (Im a solicitor) and I am NOT giving you advice, but if that were to happen to me, knowing how people work, I would take the mare back, and give him his money back, resell her, revealing what you now know. I wouldnt carry on an argument with it. If hes saying hes going to court over it, I wouldnt.
 
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personally, if it were me, (Im a solicitor) and I am NOT giving you advice, but if that were to happen to me, knowing how people work, I would take the mare back, and give him his money back, resell her, revealing what you now know. I wouldnt carry on an argument with it. If hes saying hes going to court over it, I wouldnt.

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For what it's worth but I'm no legal expert, I agree with this. Think of your legal costs.
 
I would tell him to sod off. Not your problem, you knew nothing and your a private seller. He has no come back, your not selling it as an eventer now either, would and are are totally different words.
 
Also would say its always the people who spend the least money who provide the most hassle. £1500 is NOTHING for a horse, and xrays will set them back another few hundred as will court costs. They would be better off just getting on with the horse and getting it going and seeing how it goes. I think they are bluffing personally and I would just ignore them.
 
I was a private seller and i was successfully sued. Funny my pony was only £1200, all tack, rugs 10yr welsh D registered mare. So you are right when you say its the ones who buy the cheap horses that sue. But don't say they cannot win because they can and do.
 
I would say stand your ground......Many ex racers have previous injuries inc. fractured pelvis's, tendons etc......Often with time they are OK - I have an ex racer who broke down so badly at 4 years he was almost put down - 3 years later he won over 3 seasons 5 points for me - then did a leg again (not the same one) had 18 months off, and has run a very competitive 3rd in his first race back - and not fully fit!
You were selling the horse for peanuts, with a mention of potential.......but from the field. No vetting from the prospective buyer......his choice to buy - his risk. If he had brought the horse from a sale such as Ascot, he would have no come back at all, especially if the horse was sold subject to the (what I think is rule 9 - i.e. sold as seen)
You have two choices - 1. Ignore him or 2. Have the horse back (but no reason why you should......)
 
i am awaiting a letter from his solicitor which should arrive on monday apparently so will see what it says .... what i find strange is that he text me a few days ago saying how lovely she was and today she is the horse from hell that has dumped him twice??!!! what is that all about?
 
Whatever happened to Caveat emptor? More like flaming Caveat venditor these days.
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If the chap didn't have the mare vetted and he accepted the reciept with 'sold as seen' from a private seller... I just don't think it's fair for him to be squealing about things now. Cripes... we all know the risks of buying a horse, don't we? Why didn't he pay for a vetting and check the mare's history BEFORE buying her? Isn't that what most sensible people would do if they were they that bothered? Why do all this afterwards and then gripe once the sale's been made??

Did you by any chance have your vet out to her when you owned her? Perhaps he could vouch that the mare appeared healthy and sound whilst in your care, and gave no reason for you or he to suspect or feel the need to investige for any old injury.

And as for moaning about her temperament not being what he wanted...... Jeepers, you buy a mare untried from the field, from someone who openly admits they've done nothing with it themselves during their ownership of it, you DONT get it vetted and then go loopy when the horse is discovered unlikely to be next year's Badminton winner. What a d*ck. I'm SO sorry for you. A difficult one.

What do we do now? INSIST our buyers have a 5-stage vetting, blood tests and x-rays done BEFORE we'll agree to sell them a horse???
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I have never had the vet out to her as she was never lame but maybe my vet could put something in writing to say they have never had to treat her as I have had my vet out on several occasions for my other horse?!
 
If it was the racing yard who sold the mare to you, without disclosing her injuries, and the fact she wasn't to be jumped, even though they showed you a picture of their groom jumping her, and then went to to tell your buyer of the same horse all these details they obviously witheld from you, could you not do a counter claim on them??
I think it's a bit rich for them to disclose all these details to your buyer when they never told you!!!
Personally, I hate the compensation culture, but if the worse comes to the worse and they do sue you, maybe you could go down this route?
Keep all the correspondence / evidence you can no matter how unimportant it seems.
Sounds like he's just trying it on, and that his claim will hinge on your opinion that the mare would make a good eventer. But surley that is just your opinion and not fact?
Just need to wait until his solicitor letter.
Good luck
 
NEVER put "sold as seen" on a receipt. It gives the impression that you were hiding something. Always stick to facts - age, height, colour, sex
 
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