Horse Snatching Reins

[sbloom]

If an answer annoys you, ignore it, or people will stop responding if you keep jumping down their throats

Experienced saddle.fitter here - there is something wrong. Your team may not have found it yet but it's there. It's either something noone has though of or it's something that's been missed already. Either is valid hence questioning your team is also valid.

I think back/saddle is highly likely. When hacking your horse isn't lifted in the back in the way you might have him in the school, and if you're walking a lot that might mean the saddle is tipping back a little (for various reasons of the balance of the horse in movement) for a longer period of time. Just a thought especially as your saddle checks will be done on the school. A second opinion is never a bad idea especially if it's someone with different training/experience.

Sometimes stronger/"better"riders can hold a horse together when schooling and make them look sound and pain free but being more relaxed means things show up. The opposite is more common ie horses struggling in the arena and fine on a hack, but this can happen.

I would use resources such as those on equitopiacenter.com to assess standing posture/musculature to start trying to see which bits look functional and which don't, as you don't have any other clues.

 

[jo_pearl]

If an answer annoys you, ignore it, or people will stop responding if you keep jumping down their throats

Experienced saddle.fitter here - there is something wrong. Your team may not have found it yet but it's there. It's either something noone has though of or it's something that's been missed already. Either is valid hence questioning your team is also valid.

I think back/saddle is highly likely. When hacking your horse isn't lifted in the back in the way you might have him in the school, and if you're walking a lot that might mean the saddle is tipping back a little (for various reasons of the balance of the horse in movement) for a longer period of time. Just a thought especially as your saddle checks will be done on the school. A second opinion is never a bad idea especially if it's someone with different training/experience.

Sometimes stronger/"better"riders can hold a horse together when schooling and make them look sound and pain free but being more relaxed means things show up. The opposite is more common ie horses struggling in the arena and fine on a hack, but this can happen.

I would use resources such as those on equitopiacenter.com to assess standing posture/musculature to start trying to see which bits look functional and which don't, as you don't have any other clues.

He also doesn’t do it when around our field/canter track that had varying terrain.

The saddle was check in the arena and the field and the saddler watched me ride him up the drive which is where he starts the snatching. So he has viewed him doing it when ridden and the saddle
On.

I wouldn’t really call myself a strong rider but he doesn’t snatch in the arena with me. My rein contact is the same
In the arena as out hacking.

He is sound he has had a full vet check.

I shall have a look at the resources you sent thank you

 

[jo_pearl]

Good idea to check his bridle and bit fit. So the bit fitter maybe able to help you. Meanwhile have a look to see how the bit fits in the mouth is it hitting the teeth at the back. Take the noseband off. Check the cheek pieces are the correct length. In fact have you a photo of your bridle on the horse?

Thank you, his bridle fits him correctly. Im on a competition yard with a lot of individuals who have a wealth of experience. There is no need for me to post a picture as all correct but thank you

 

[magicmoments]

You have asked for advice. People much more experienced than me have given you very good advice. However much you trust the professionals you have used, your horse is telling you they are not comfortable in one way, or another, so please get second opinions. Ruth Fisher is a bit and bridle fitter, that I can wholeheartedly recommend, and also gives lessons.

 

[jo_pearl]

You have asked for advice. People much more experienced than me have given you very good advice. However much you trust the professionals you have used, your horse is telling you they are not comfortable in one way, or another, so please get second opinions. Ruth Fisher is a bit and bridle fitter, that I can wholeheartedly recommend, and also gives lessons.

thank you

 

[sbloom]

Thank you, his bridle fits him correctly. Im on a competition yard with a lot of individuals who have a wealth of experience. There is no need for me to post a picture as all correct but thank you

Being on a competitive yard would not make me think that I could rely on getting the best advice and in fact, from the way of going of many horses at the very top, and their musculature/posture, it would be more likely the opposite. Just food for thought.

Instead of saying everything's fine (something clearly isn't), it's likely time to start trying some different options - bit, saddle, bridle, professionals - to see what happens.

 

[LillyTheCat]

Thank you, his bridle fits him correctly. Im on a competition yard with a lot of individuals who have a wealth of experience. There is no need for me to post a picture as all correct but thank you

If you have a wealth of experience on your yard and trust all the professionals you use, why have you come on here to ask for advice?

 

[jo_pearl]

Being on a competitive yard would not make me think that I could rely on getting the best advice and in fact, from the way of going of many horses at the very top, and their musculature/posture, it would be more likely the opposite. Just food for thought.

Instead of saying everything's fine (something clearly isn't), it's likely time to start trying some different options - bit, saddle, bridle, professionals - to see what happens.

I am sorry but I disagree with your comment about the yard, it’s a small yard and I’ve had advice for many years with my older horse and all has helped, the staff treat the horses individually and help with each horse.

 

[jo_pearl]

If you have a wealth of experience on your yard and trust all the professionals you use, why have you come on here to ask for advice?

comments like this is why I hate forums.

You ask to see if others have been through the same.

If I could offer someone advice I would give it without any judgement.

You’re so right I won’t be asking for advice on here anymore.

I’m so glad you took the time to reply a pointless comment.

Have an amazing day

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Not all saddle fitters know they are doing even master saddle fitters years ago I had one that completely ruined my horses back,

The saddle was too narrow and pinching the muscle was disappearing so he just kept fitting the saddle to the muscle wasted back, I ended up with a young horse with a very sore back.

That was my experience I was just trying to help I trusted this person as I didn't have the knowledge to know any better.

Don't ask advice if you are going to dismiss everything you don't like what's the point if you just don't listen.

Good luck with your horse.

 

[maya2008]

So…

Easy stuff it might possibly be:
- Flies? I have a mare who head shakes at flies/midges, although for us it is walk and trot. She will stop it if I insist, but usually I just remember to fly spray her head and that solves the problem. Fine in school/field because no midges.
- Anxiety? You’re leaving the yard, away from home and away from friends. Do you have the same problem in company? What if you are on the ground leading?
- Bit size? As horses grow their mouths can widen around this age. Check you can get your little finger on each side of the bit. Also check how tight it is, as the head can grow longer too at this point.
- Boredom? Your horse is 5, are you doing enough to entertain them? Most 5 year olds respond better to a more brisk hack, with trot and some canter to let off a little steam. They are young, they want to move and play. That would help with your other thread that asks about building muscle too.

Hopefully it is something simple.

 

[JoannaC]

My mare started snatching so I removed the noseband and she now doesn't. I think it was where it goes over the poll rather than the actual noseband. With regard to saddles, sometimes horses don't agree with the saddler. When my old mare started to outgrow her gp saddle I got a new made to measure dressage saddle. Technically the gp no longer fitted but she always preferred it to the dressage which fitted perfectly. My saddler always said listen to the horse, just because technically something fits doesn't mean the horse agrees.

 

[nagblagger]

Try riding out bareback..see if he is more comfortable.

 

[jo_pearl]

So…

Easy stuff it might possibly be:
- Flies? I have a mare who head shakes at flies/midges, although for us it is walk and trot. She will stop it if I insist, but usually I just remember to fly spray her head and that solves the problem. Fine in school/field because no midges.
- Anxiety? You’re leaving the yard, away from home and away from friends. Do you have the same problem in company? What if you are on the ground leading?
- Bit size? As horses grow their mouths can widen around this age. Check you can get your little finger on each side of the bit. Also check how tight it is, as the head can grow longer too at this point.
- Boredom? Your horse is 5, are you doing enough to entertain them? Most 5 year olds respond better to a more brisk hack, with trot and some canter to let off a little steam. They are young, they want to move and play. That would help with your other thread that asks about building muscle too.

Hopefully it is something simple.

He’s always hacked in company and actually prefers to be out front in the lead.

We did think flies but he does it even if flies ain’t around and there are flies on the canter track and no issues there.

He does canter work on the canter track our road hacking is short and sweet (the lane has turned into a circus since the bypass speed been reduced)

It could be boredom and this did cross my mind but he loves hacking his ears are pricked and he proper struts out

I’m going to try him in a happy mouth loose ring, currently in a D ring NS with lozenge bit.

Half of me thinks he’s playing with the martingale as he forgets about snatching and then we say stop for a car and he’s like oh let’s go again.

 

[jo_pearl]

My mare started snatching so I removed the noseband and she now doesn't. I think it was where it goes over the poll rather than the actual noseband. With regard to saddles, sometimes horses don't agree with the saddler. When my old mare started to outgrow her gp saddle I got a new made to measure dressage saddle. Technically the gp no longer fitted but she always preferred it to the dressage which fitted perfectly. My saddler always said listen to the horse, just because technically something fits doesn't mean the horse agrees.

Wouldn’t a Fairfax stop with the pressure points? When you say about the nose band I thought they had been tested not to cause this? As that is an interesting comment

 

[jo_pearl]

Try riding out bareback..see if he is more comfortable.

Try riding out bareback..see if he is more comfortable.

Be too dangerous on my road sadly. It’s meant to be a 20 I think they do more 200!!

 

[JoannaC]

Wouldn’t a Fairfax stop with the pressure points? When you say about the nose band I thought they had been tested not to cause this? As that is an interesting comment

Possibly but I think every horse is unique and what suits one won't suit another. My bridle was an old one so it was having the noseband running under the headpiece. I was going to get her an anatomical bridle but she is perfectly happy without the noseband so haven't got round to it.

 

[Jenko109]

Not read all replies.

However it sounds like he is only displaying this behaviour on a hard surface?

Fine in the sand school and fine in the fields.

Not fine on a hard road.

The pain may not be in his back or his mouth. Perhaps it could be in his feet or legs.

 

[Glitter's fun]

My friend's teenaged horse started leaning on the bit very badly, only on hacks, never when schooling or jumping. Yours will be for different reasons but I'm just sharing this because I am surprised how small a problem turned out to be causing it and am also surprised that it was an "in the school" problem that was leading to an "on hacks" behaviour change.
Full tack overhaul and veterinary loss of performance examination didn't reveal anything. One day the person riding behind while hacking down a steep hill noticed her near hind hoof twisting slightly each time she put it down. She was turning/sliding the hoof a little on the tarmac to avoid bending the joints quite as much.
Full lameness investigations still revealed nothing significant but the vet advised stopping any work that involved tight circles as there must be a very mild joint problem somewhere, maybe the stifle, just not bad enough to show up yet.

That was 6 months ago. Horse isn't schooling at all now, just hacking. The leaning has completely stopped. The horse is much more forwards, although none of us had noticed her slowing gradually.

Like I say, yours will be something different but my point is it might be something very small that has been overlooked by all your very competent experts and don't be misled by the "on hacks only" nature of your problem.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

 

[jo_pearl]

Not read all replies.

However it sounds like he is only displaying this behaviour on a hard surface?

Fine in the sand school and fine in the fields.

Not fine on a hard road.

The pain may not be in his back or his mouth. Perhaps it could be in his feet or legs.

Doesn’t do it in trot only in walk. He’s kind of like a child playing with a toy when he does it. I feel I need to dangle a toy from his brow band lol

Possibly but I think every horse is unique and what suits one won't suit another. My bridle was an old one so it was having the noseband running under the headpiece. I was going to get her an anatomical bridle but she is perfectly happy without the noseband so haven't got round to it.

il give it a go as my noseband can be undone both sides

 

[sjdress]

Interestingly my horse was super chill today , went on a really long hack and she didnt do it at all. Went for a shorter hack the other day and she was spooky and tense and did it then so I definitely think it’s tension with her

 

[quizzie]

He’s always hacked in company and actually prefers to be out front in the lead.

We did think flies but he does it even if flies ain’t around and there are flies on the canter track and no issues there.

He does canter work on the canter track our road hacking is short and sweet (the lane has turned into a circus since the bypass speed been reduced)

It could be boredom and this did cross my mind but he loves hacking his ears are pricked and he proper struts out

I’m going to try him in a happy mouth loose ring, currently in a D ring NS with lozenge bit.

Half of me thinks he’s playing with the martingale as he forgets about snatching and then we say stop for a car and he’s like oh let’s go again.

Possibly left field, but consider removing the martingale?

When schooling/cantering in the fields/trotting, he has other things to amuse himself with...his brain is looking externally, but when walking out on a hack, his brain may think more "internally" and he notices the slight weight of the martingale on the reins, and the swinging movement under his neck. It may be a "game" to him?
Also please be very careful if he is trying to grab a running martingale...consider using a bib one if he needs one.

 

[Carrottom]

I was just about to post recommending try without a martingale.

 

[suestowford]

I had a horse who did this. He was late teens when I got him and no doubt was in some discomfort as he was in poor condition when he came. But he did it after having his teeth sorted, a new saddle, fittening work and good feeding so I began to wonder if it had just been a habit he'd got into. I did cure it but it was more by luck than judgement. I got fed up with having my hands wrenched about so I rode him with no contact at all, so that when he jerked his head down there was nothing to pull against. A few rides of doing that and he just stopped doing it. Luckily he was a kind and sensible horse and didn't take advantage of the loose reins! We only ever hacked out so having him in an outline wasn't something that I was bothered about.

 

[jo_pearl]

Possibly left field, but consider removing the martingale?

When schooling/cantering in the fields/trotting, he has other things to amuse himself with...his brain is looking externally, but when walking out on a hack, his brain may think more "internally" and he notices the slight weight of the martingale on the reins, and the swinging movement under his neck. It may be a "game" to him?
Also please be very careful if he is trying to grab a running martingale...consider using a bib one if he needs one.

He’s never tried to grab it he’s not interested in it that way if you get me.

Funny you say this, I said to the guy on the yard today shall I try him without one.

 

[jo_pearl]

I had a horse who did this. He was late teens when I got him and no doubt was in some discomfort as he was in poor condition when he came. But he did it after having his teeth sorted, a new saddle, fittening work and good feeding so I began to wonder if it had just been a habit he'd got into. I did cure it but it was more by luck than judgement. I got fed up with having my hands wrenched about so I rode him with no contact at all, so that when he jerked his head down there was nothing to pull against. A few rides of doing that and he just stopped doing it. Luckily he was a kind and sensible horse and didn't take advantage of the loose reins! We only ever hacked out so having him in an outline wasn't something that I was bothered about.

I’ve tried this with him and hold the buckle but his neck is so darn long that even when I do that he can still snatch down and there is some contact there.

He does it even if I don’t hold any reins (we tried with someone walking next to him on the drive) so it’s really strange

 

[jo_pearl]

I was just about to post recommending try without a martingale.

Yes was saying today that maybe something worth trying on the yard today

 

[Carrottom]

Yes was saying today that maybe something worth trying on the yard today

I'll be interested to hear how it goes, you might need a few rides to see a difference.

 

[jo_pearl]

I'll be interested to hear how it goes, you might need a few rides to see a difference.

I shall keep you updated

 

[ThreeFurs]

Oh thank you, we have a local bit fitter so I shall drop them a message. Interesting that an older horse did it.

Was the results instant or did you have to ride in the bit a few times?

I shall have a watch of the video with a cup of tea ☺

Results were fairly immediate but I have to be honest, when he was happier in the mouth, I started to learn more about the contact he liked, so my hands improved and then I could ride more with my seat as I could focus calmly and no longer feel I was about to be yanked over his neck - so it was like a kind of biofeedback system.