Horse snatching the reins

Louby-Jay

Louby-Jay

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Beauty has started to snatch the reins a lot when hacking.

She did it more when she was in her sweet iron wilkie bit so changed her to the bit that I hunt with (Dutch Gag) as she never does it in that however, she's started doing it with that albeit not so much.

I've tried varying her work and never give her her head when she does it so not sure where she's picked up this habit from. I've had her over two years and she's never done it.

I don't want to keep her in this gag as 1- she doesn't need it for when I'm hacking and schooling and 2- I only use it for hunting so don't want her getting used to it.

I'm thinking of changing her back down to a hanging cheek snaffle but don't want to do this if she is going to carry on.

She gets so worked up when I don't give her her head when she's doing it.

I don't know what else I can do.
 
Sorry, but you need to go back to basics.
She is not accepting a nice contact with the bit so either she needs more schooling and/or you need to make doubly sure you have an independent seat and hands so that the contact is consistent. It is not the type of bit that causes head tossing or not, but the connection between the horses mouth and hands.
Of course, you will have had teeth and mouth checked too, but as she doesn't do it all the time then it is unlikely there is a problem there.
If she never does it schooling, then start to school in other areas too (e.g. in a part of a paddock out on a hack) so that the training transfers to other areas; then spread the schooling to different circumstances (e.g. rides with other horses) to generalise the training to all situations. Unfortunately just working in a school doesn't guarantee the good behaviour will transfer once they want to do something else.
If she also does it in the arena, then get a good trainer to help you establish a consistent contact (about the pressure of holding someone's hand lightly to guide them) and make sure the horse will relax and stretch down STILL WITH A CONTACT when asked. Then generalise this training to different areas and circumstances (i.e. the horse must always stretch forward to an even contact no matter how excited or distracted it is). If you teach her to do this then you can stop her from getting worked up (and you won't need to pull on her mouth either).
Do this all with a soft bit (choice irrelevant but don't 'bit her up' with something harsher) and a loose cavesson (or no noseband at all) - -don't strap the mouth shut with a tight noseband as this causes other problems and the horse cannot then relax its jaw and accept the bit i.e. the aim is training the horse to accept the bit and respond when 'asked' not forcing the horse to accept the signals because it has no choice.
 
When you say snatch is it actually a snatch of not accepting contact or is he doing more of a head shake flic. Obviously my way forward would be dependant of which scenario it is. I agree if it's a contact problem you need to go back to basics and get a prober mouth on the horse that is soft and accepting of the contact. I'd be tempted to put a mouthing bit in and do a bit of long reining with her and get her properly mouthed and go from there. If it's actually head shaking then that's a different kettle of fish.
 
I would say its a little bit of both if I'm honest.

When I think about it, it started when the summer came along and the flies came out and then got progressively worse from there.

She's a very very sensitive horse in the fact that if a fly lands on her she gets extremely twitchy (she hasn't got sweet itch though, she doesn't rub etc) she just twitches to get it off.

I think its habit now if I'm honest.

I didn't bit her up but thought I would try and take her back to the bit that she was ridden in previously (trying to find the problem). This fixed it but then slowly started again. I've put a fly mask on her when I ride and this has helped as well but I think I'm left with the habit now.

I always ride her with a very soft contact anyway- I don't need to pull as she's extremely responsive. She absolutely hates schooling in the fact that she gets nervous and scared however, I am working on this every day and taking things slow.

She's also a healthy horse, feet, teeth and back checked.
 
Does she snatch if you give her a long rein? Are you holding her into a contact all the time? If she doesn't have the musculature to hold that frame, she will get sore and could lead to snatching.
 
Mine did this - I was hanging onto him as he was abit of a one and charged off. Had to re-school it out of him.
 
Gosh, how nice to see a sweet-tempered, intelligent and very well-informed discussion on here. Sort of thing one can learn from. Getting a bit rare!
 
It took me over two years to find a bit my mare didn't snatch the reins in. In the end I realised it was the tongue pressure she disliked. She had a small dainty mouth but large fleshy tongue and lozenge bits were the worst. For her, the best bit was a very slim (14mm) demi anki, so it had no middle lozenge, but was shaped to provide tongue relief.

Horses snatch the reins for different reasons:

Pain or discomfort relating to the bit or bridle
Pain or discomfort related to the rider
Fatigue
Irritation
 
I've had her on a short rein and a long rein and it makes no difference. The one thing I do do is not to release whatever contact I have when she does it.

Wagtail- she could may well be a similar case. She's a very fussy nit picky mare. One of the most over sensitive I've ever had that's for sure!
 
I think if it was me I would try using a nose net to see if that made a difference. If there is no difference then at least you could then rule out sensitivity to flies or pollen causing it.
 
Louby-Jay said:
I've had her on a short rein and a long rein and it makes no difference. The one thing I do do is not to release whatever contact I have when she does it.

Wagtail- she could may well be a similar case. She's a very fussy nit picky mare. One of the most over sensitive I've ever had that's for sure!
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It took me such a long time to find the right bit, but in the meantime I rode her in an English hackamore which she loved. I trained her up to medium level dressage in the hackamore (obviously couldn't compete in it though). But then found the demi anky. I always hacked her out in the hackamore though because she was just so still and relaxed in it and hacking should be relaxing and fun.
 
Mine is super sensitive too and she stopped it when I started using an ear bonnet - she hates the wind blowing in her ears. This was after going through about 20 bits and a whole host of nosebands.
 
You don't say about her age and fitness level, I have known horses do this when they are getting tired, it appears to be about trying to release tension in the neck and back. Might be worth thinking about.
 
It would be interesting to try the horse bitless. I would also look at the bit longer term and also the teeth. I changed my pony's bit from a lozenge to a single joint which he loved but eventually did find out there was a fundamental problem with his teeth which was only discovered by the fourth professional to look at them. The problem was sorted and the pony literally became happy overnight
 
She is 6 and ridden 6 days a week hacking and schooling so is really fit. She has her back checked regularly (she even went to horsey spa at the beginning of Spring! Spoilt). and her teeth done every 6 months; once by a professional dentist and once by the vet with her vaccinations.

She has an earless fly mask on at the moment as I thought it may have been the flies- it has reduced. I also thought that it could be her mane touching her ears (she is super sensitive like that) so hogged her. Worked slightly but still does it. Maybe it is a sensitivity issue? She is an over sensitive madam!
 
Louby-Jay said:
She absolutely hates schooling in the fact that she gets nervous and scared however, I am working on this every day and taking things slow. .
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This would be a concern to me. Perhaps she has had bad experiences in the past and associates being schooled with those memories. It is great that you are working at it every day, as she should associate your contact with reassurance and relaxation and schooling should be fundamental to building a bond between you.
Teaching the horse to stretch down to the contact helps relaxation tremendously, particularly if you start on a small circle in one place. this reassures the horse about being schooled (which after all is only responding to the aids while working in a smaller space than out on a hack in a bigger space) as well as improving the contact.
You state somewhere else that you don't give the contact away when she snatches, which is great. I presume you mean that you are following the snatching movement rather than blocking? Well done for keeping her mouth nice and sensitive; as someone else put, using the seat can help tremendously with sensitive mouthed horses.
Glad the mask etc is helping, I am sure it won't take you long to train her out of the habit if that is the only issue. The scared/nervous in the school will take longer but you can do it. Good luck.
 
I went to a demo with tim downes bhs f. On Thursday, friends ex racer was doing this. He made her sit up/back and relax (gripping thighs) on the buckle. Horse stopped snatching. Mane problem was she was sitting with weight too forward.
also said often happens when saddle pic he's slightly at the withers
 
Hi Guys,

Just thought that I would give you a quick update. I've purchased an ear bonnet over the weekend and there is a significant difference.

I've also tried my friends Prolite pad under my saddle and this seems to have helped massively. She has her saddle checked when the Chiro comes every year so I don't think this is an issue about fitting, I think that she may have a sensitive back and my numnahs are quite thin ones.

My Chiro is due to come out in 3 weeks along with saddle fitter so I'll get them to check her tack over anyway.

I've also put her in a hanging cheek with a single joint (she usually has French link) and she seems a million times happier in this. Mouthing up and less chomping.

Thank you for all your advice.
 
Louby-Jay said:
Hi Guys,

Just thought that I would give you a quick update. I've purchased an ear bonnet over the weekend and there is a significant difference.

I've also tried my friends Prolite pad under my saddle and this seems to have helped massively. She has her saddle checked when the Chiro comes every year so I don't think this is an issue about fitting, I think that she may have a sensitive back and my numnahs are quite thin ones.

My Chiro is due to come out in 3 weeks along with saddle fitter so I'll get them to check her tack over anyway.

I've also put her in a hanging cheek with a single joint (she usually has French link) and she seems a million times happier in this. Mouthing up and less chomping.

Thank you for all your advice.
Click to expand...

Good news. Sounds like she's a much more comfortable girlie all round. Hopefully this will continue.
 
Louby-Jay said:
Hi Guys,

Just thought that I would give you a quick update. I've purchased an ear bonnet over the weekend and there is a significant difference.

I've also tried my friends Prolite pad under my saddle and this seems to have helped massively. She has her saddle checked when the Chiro comes every year so I don't think this is an issue about fitting, I think that she may have a sensitive back and my numnahs are quite thin ones.

My Chiro is due to come out in 3 weeks along with saddle fitter so I'll get them to check her tack over anyway.

I've also put her in a hanging cheek with a single joint (she usually has French link) and she seems a million times happier in this. Mouthing up and less chomping.

Thank you for all your advice.
Click to expand...

You say you have the saddle checked every year, is this by the chiro?
 
9tails said:
You say you have the saddle checked every year, is this by the chiro?
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No, she has a chiropractor and a separate saddle check once a year.

I'm quite hot on with her back and her teeth.

Back checked once a year by chiro, saddle fitter once a year, Teeth done twice a year by two separate people, injections up to date, ridden 6 days a week. Goes to horsey spa for a 5 days at the beginning of spring and beginning of autumn.
 
Just to add this sounds like mine, when I ride she would snatch and avoid the contact so we played with bits and then looked at other avenues hogging her improved things quite a lot and then we found wolf teeth that had gone undiagnosed at 6 years so once they were removed things improved greatly too. Im still having to school her and make sure sessions don't get too long with lots of stretching on hacking.
 
Great that you're making progress. It took me 18 months to find a bit my horse was happy in. He would snatch, lean, put his tongue over the bit, throw his head around, run through it -you name it he'd do it! He'd be great in a new bit for a few weeks and I thought we'd cracked it then he'd start all over again! In the end the one that worked (and has kept working for another 10 years) was a Myler mullen mouth hanging cheek. It's very, very still in his mouth which he seems to like. The mouthpiece is quite narrow and the curve is quite pronounced so it gives his enormous tongue plenty of room. I was worried about not having brakes but once he was comfy, he wasn't running away from it so despite being 'milder' it actually gave me more brakes. Might be worth a try if you need to.
 
I've just purchased a hanging cheek and she's been a lot better!

Its not her wolf teeth as these were removed about 2 years ago.

We are making progress and I feel like I've explored all avenues now thanks to all your advice!
 
Just to add to the thread in case anyone other than the OP is reading for advice like me, my horse started doing this with his loaner and it eventually turned out it was a pain reaction and he actually has arthritis! When his hocks get worse this is the first thing he starts to do. I know that's a warning sign to prepare for hock injections now.
 
Wagtail said:
It took me over two years to find a bit my mare didn't snatch the reins in. In the end I realised it was the tongue pressure she disliked. She had a small dainty mouth but large fleshy tongue and lozenge bits were the worst. For her, the best bit was a very slim (14mm) demi anki, so it had no middle lozenge, but was shaped to provide tongue relief.

Horses snatch the reins for different reasons:

Pain or discomfort relating to the bit or bridle
Pain or discomfort related to the rider
Fatigue
Irritation
Click to expand...

I would also say that they can very quickly learn that its an excellent way of unseating you and getting out of work (if only for a short reprieve!)

If tack teeth back etc are all checked and good You need to develop a strong core, and perhaps for a while ride in a defensive position, stay slightly behind the movement so you can brace against it. Also, keep any sessions of 'contact' short and sweet with periods allowed for rest/stretching of neck and topline in general. Beast and I really struggled with this for a while, once my core strengthened and I learnt to 'brace against it' we then encountered a different tactic - leaning on my hands, i then had to use a combination of a loose ring to guard against leaning and whilst it helped it was not quite enough so whenever he lent I would slip my reins by a couple of inches... with this approach he learnt not to use either tactic!
 
I think that she is know just in a habit that I've got to train her out of.

In other news, I fell off my youngster yesterday! Feeling very stiff!
 
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