Horse standing all 4 feet on 1 spot, trembling & sweating

[apn8keh]

New to this forum, but just wondered if anyone had a horse that has had same symptoms as mine.

He lives out 24/7 in same field for last 8 years. Is retired as was diagnosed with arthritic changes in hock at 4, he is nearly 12 now. Monday evening he was standing awkwardly, with his hind legs right underneath him & front legs trembling and sweating. Vet came out Tues morning & suspected azoturia so gave him a painkiller, vit E & selenium. This seemed to ease, but not stop the trembling & he was standing a bit more normal for a few hours. Blood tests showed no liver, kidney probs & not azoturia.

Following morning still standing awkwardly so vet prescribed 2 sachets of bute. He didn't like the taste of bute so probably didn't get the full dose. Today I have collected some Finadyne, vet says this is strongest painkiller available & 2 hours after administering he didn't seem to be standing any better. I also have Sedalin to give him this evening. He is still bright in himself & interested in grazing and food.

I was sure it was his arthritic hocks/fetlocks finally giving way, but the vet doesn't seem to think he would deteriorate so rapidly. He has never been on bute & was always sound & charging round the field until this weekend. Does anyone have any experience of how an arthritic horse deteriorates to the point it has to be PTS? Could he have laminitis?

Sorry for the long post, but vet seems pretty baffled & I don't want to keep him suffering longer than necessary bearing in mind the painkillers aren't really working.

 

[Agent XXX999]

Laminius?


I am probably way off there...

 

[beaconhorse]

are any other horses off colour?

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
Laminitus?


I am probably way off there...

[/ QUOTE ]
If it wasn't azoutoria - Laminitus is what I would be thinking as well.

 

[JACQSZOO]

My first thought was laminitus. It has been very very mild and the grass is growing

 

[Petrie]

But wouldn't he have responded to the pain killers if it was laminitus?

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
But wouldn't he have responded to the pain killers if it was laminitus?

[/ QUOTE ]
Horse sounds as if he's in a lot of pain - so not necessarily.

 

[Loupride]

Sounds like there is a good chance it could be laminitus to me...

 

[apn8keh]

No, all the other horses in the field are fine.

I suggested to the vet laminitis as the perculiar stance, sweating and trembling are all symptoms. He hasn't had any heat in his feet nor digital pulse. His diet hasn't been changed, he has just having alpha A and a couple of scoops pasture mix on an evening, and a bit of hay put out. I understand that the strange weather we've had could put the grass under stress & could trigger laminitis, also if he were putting too much weight on 1 leg could trigger it in the other 1.

He is a 16.3hh warmblood x and usually gets a bit plump in the summer as the grazing is good, so its strange to get it at this time of year.

Doesn't anyone thing it could be arthritis playing up? He had bony projections on his hock at 4, and had inflammation of his fetlocks at the time he was diagnosed with arthritis.

 

[Enfys]

Poor boy.
The stance you describe sounds like classic acute laminitus, is the vet treating him for this now? Is he in off the grass?

Very awkward for an arthritic when it is best for him to be moving around, but if he can't/won't move and it is laminitus then the arthritis just adds to his problems. Catch 22,presumably he needs to be out, but he needs to be restricted too.

My mare developed arthritis in her hind legs after a field injury, she then got cellulitis as well and as she couldn't be stabled and was simply miserable being handicapped within two months of her injury I had her PTS. That was not on the Vets advice, he wanted to carry on pumping drugs into her, but based on my own knowledge of her and her personality. Personally, in a situation like this I would be considering the pts option but only you can make that (or any) decison based on the fact that you know your horse better than anyone.

 

[apn8keh]

He is still out as he doesn't have a stable, as your right he is not good in. If I could use one he would have to travel in a horsebox to get there & he would be mega stressed to leave his mates. I don't think he could stand well enough to travel.

I was still feeding him pasture mix yesterday as it was the only way to get the bute down him, but I'm just going to give him alpha a & carrots tonight with his sedative.

I must admit I was ready to have him PTS yesterday when he was struggling to get about, but the vets were wanting to wait to hear back from the blood tests. I'll probably give him until the wekend to improve then ask the vet if he needs to be PTS. Its trying to balance giving him a chance to recover whilst minimising his suffering.

 

[Enfys]

Horrid situation to be in.

Had a thought about the bute, what is he like to syringe? We have used applesauce to disguise the bute and given it in a syringe before with horses that wouldn't take it in a feed.

You are right there, no point stressing the poor lad out more with moving him away from his chums unless you absolutely have to right now.

Good Luck and keep us posted please.

 

[apn8keh]

The Finadyne is in a syringe & he took it OK this morning, at least I know he had it all with the bute he just knocked his feed all over the place.

With his stance its a bit bizarre not typical laminitic on all 4 heels, he has got all his feet on the same spot right underneath his belly.

Anyhow, I'm going to give him the Sedalin now & wait to see if it has an effect (meant to take about 15 mins to work).

 

[spaniel]

Poor thing sounds in dreadful pain. I do hope you can find and treat the cause.

 

[druid]

I've just been pointed to this post - he sounds like a very typical grass sickness case

http://www.grasssickness.org.uk/main.htm

Please, please look into it

 

[spaniel]

Now you mention it druid, yes, this is a possibility and something you need to make your vet aware of. It may be that he has little experience of GS but it has to be taken very seriously if this is the problem.

can you update and let us know whats going on?

 

[Llwyncwn]

When the vet initially suspected azotoria, did he inject steroids by any chance ? If he did and IF it is laminitis then the steroids could cause the pedal bone to drop. Was the digital pulse normal in all four feet ?

I have no personal experience of grass sickness apart from what I have read. Did there appear to be any green gunge dripping from his nose?

Best of luck and please do keep us posted.

 

[apn8keh]

Yes I did panic about grass sickness at first, as the trembling and sweating are classic symptoms. I've pretty much ruled this out as it normally causes paralysis of the gut. His gut is making all the right noises, he's passing normal motions and is eating and drinking fine.

I've just come back from giving him his sedative & a bit of alpha a + carrots. He was still standing in the same position to eat, but I'm sure the sedative has helped a bit as he was quite happy to follow me back up the field & went trotting off to be with his companions. Obviously, he's not right but even if he's just a bit spaced out at least its giving him a bit of relief for a while.

I don't think the vet gave him any steroids, she just said Finadyne, vit E & selenium to try to ease the muscle trembling.

Sorry forgot to mention he doesn't have any nasal discharge & doesn't have a digital pulse or heat in any leg/hoof.

 

[Fahrenheit]

My old man has recently suffered from laminitis (age related), his pedal bone has dropped and rotated (confirmed by xrays) and he has been on bute 1 twice aday for the past 3 months and is having his 3rd set of heartbar shoes next week, so i sympathise with you greatly.
To me at first I thought sounds like tying up because of the muscle trembling but has that has been ruled out with blood test, my next thought was laminitis, my horse has been on box rest on a deep bed with his laminitis and painkillers for his laminitis. My horse no longer has a raised pulse to his foot and never had any obvious heat in the foot so don't be fooled if you can't feel any heat it could still be laminitis. I would rule out grass sickness has a) his motions are normal and b) he would have deterioated more by now (IMO).
I have been unfortunate to have experience all 3 dieases and they are not nice to deal with.

 

[henryhorn]

The grass sickness case I once saw was shivering and sweating, very depressed and had all his food returning via his nose, so not so sure it's that.Literally gallons of green gloop and very different to anything else.
I reckon it could be anything causing it from a tumour to a spasm somewhere, and all you can do is keep him comfortable and give him the painkillers.
I think there would be more evidence of laminitis despite the stance.
I have seen horses deteriorate with arthritis many times, but usually the pain killers alleviate the symptoms enough to make them comfortable.
Ask your vet to bring a colleague next time, it may just be he isn't seeing something another one would notice..
good luck, I hope you solve it. and do use a syringe for the bute, much easier.

 

[Pidge]

must admit I thought GS when read your post. trouble is they can still eat and drink if got this as Higgs did although not a lot. And it comes on very quickly. I really hope its not GS as its such a nasty disease and unfortunately most times the horse has to be PTS. Diagnosis is only possible by taking a sample from the gut I'm afraid.

 

[Fahrenheit]

Here are symtoms for each for you:
GS - Acute and Sub Acute cases, death occurs normally within 2 to 3 days, show signs of severe colic, regurgitation of fluid stomach contents down nose and paralysis of the throat. Muscles tremble in an uncontroled manner, initially there maybe diarrhoea but later NO DUNG is passed and if examined it is found faeces are hard and black.
EGS - Chronic cases, show dull adbomoinal discomfort and SEVERE loss of condition. Appetitie is poor to non existent and stomach contents are returned down the nose, the dung is hard and dry, horse stands with dipped back and feet bought together under body.
LAMINITIS - Acute cases, severe pain in feet and horse is generally distressed, sweating and trembling, the horse stands with the hind legs underneath the body in attempt to lessen weight bearing.

 

[apn8keh]

Just been down to gve him his painkiller & he loked pretty much the same, although he doesn't seem to be as hot and the shaking is pretty much confined to his shoulders. When I was giving him some carrots he did stand with 1 back leg in a more normal position for a while, but returned to usual stance when grazing. This was approx 10 mins after I gave him the paste, so I'm not sure it had taken an effect. The sedative would definately have worn off by now as it lasts about 6-7 hours.

I'm gonna go back now & watch him, then ring the vet as I need some more Finadyne to see him through the weekend.

 

[AmyMay]

I think it's probably time to take a bit more action on this one. He definately sounds as if he ought to be stabled and receiving some pretty intnesive care of one sort or another to me. Not sure if others agree.

But if your vet has absolutely ruled out something as simple as a bruised sole, or abcess, and your horse is not a wimp - then something is going on.

I would also be concerned about sedating a horse that is turned out and in the company of others. It sounds pretty dangerous to me tbh.

 

[Fahrenheit]

I agree I think its time to take more action, are you still feeding hard food? If so and its laminitis it could be why there isn't any improvement, horse IMO should be in a stable if this absolutely isn't possible should be separated into a small restricted area with pref no grass but soft not hard surface and hard food should be hit on the head and should just have water and ad lib hay, if its laminitis the intake of carbohydrates needs to be restricted to a minimum. But I really think you need to get the vet again now and don't be afraid to ask for a second vet or a more senior vet. As he isn't getting worse I don't think its grass sickness but it can't be ruled out, you really need a vet again and don't be afraid to be pushy as to getting an answer. If the vet suspected grass sickness the horse needs to be admitted to veterinary hospital asap for intensive nursing. When my mare had grass sickness they wouldn't take her (even thou my vet begged on my behalf) because she had already started to reflux and they said it was no point in spending the money as she had no chance of survival, so I had her pts. Cronic cases need to be caught early and it requires intensive nursing (at great expense. Please keep us informed, I hope it turns out alright, I even rang my vet this morning and he gave me the list of symptoms for each that I posted before.

 

[Loopy_laura]

why are you giving him sedalin?

 

[Pidge]

Oh please speak to your vet again. I really really hope it isn't GS.

 

[Llwyncwn]

I agree with HG. If its not an abcess in the foot, treat it as thought it was laminitis. DO NOT feed carrots as they are loaded with sugar. Give feed that is recommended by the Laminitic Trust, i.e. Spillers High Fibre Cubes, Hi Fi Light - no sugar beet and preferably un-fertilised hay with little value.

 

[buzzles]

one of our ponies showed symptoms similar to what you described a few weeks ago after the snow, we got the vet immediately and it turned out it was laminitis in the hind legs induced fom the frost. She also got slight azotoria aswell. She'd been standing in because of the snow and then when it started to clear I turned her out with another pony (who was fine). She'd never had laminitis before and was on very little hard feed, literally a handful of cool mix. The vet and farrier said it was very rare. Shes ok now, we fortunately caught it in time. I don't know if your horse was on frost but it might be worth looking into. I'd say definitely get the vet out again or a second opinion, I might be worth getting x rays of his feet/ hocks and blood tests done to find out what exactly is going on. Hope everything works out ok!

 

[Snowberry]

as others have said it sounds like a horse we had who got GS - I really hope that its not GS as the outcome is pretty [****], in most cases!
Our horse was exactly as you've described your horse and he was still eating, with no green snot. Even after 5days there was still no snot!
One of the things our vet did was take a photo of his eyes, apparently they droop?

It was a couple of years ago and very emotional but I cant remember exactly.
If you do suspect GS, please contact the people in Scotland - they have all the info you'll ever need!
Good luck