Horse still too thin!

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MagicMelon

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My 13yo big warmblood has come out of winter skinny. The winter just seems to have dragged on and on (we had snow only last week!) so the grass is only really growing now. I hoped this would be enough for my horse to start gaining but he isn't. He's out 24/7, which I have slowly introduced over the first 6 months (he's been out permanently last 2 months). He currently shares 3.5 acres with my other horse and there is quite a good growth of grass. He does graze although also likes to stand to attention gazing into the distance a lot which might be the problem (but what on earth can I do about that?!). But he doesn't race round the field or anything getting stressy. There are several haynets available to him at all times, the grass must be growing enough as they rarely touch them now. He's rugged up well at all times and can go into his open stable whenever he wants.

He's on Baileys Top Line Conditioning cubes, speedibeet and AlfaA twice a day. I started him on a high spec vit & min supplement a fortnight ago and also made sure he was wormed. I had him on Micronised Linseed for about 3 months through the winter and to be honest, didnt notice a difference so took him off it again. I'm thinking of adding oil to his feed too to try and add even more calories. He can be quite full of beans occasionally so I dont want to feed anything which might boil him over. He had his teeth checked not long ago and they were fine.

He doesn't lack energy when riding and seems perfectly happy and relaxed. He used to be stabled full time prior to me getting him last year, I really don't want to have to start stabling him again for him to gain weight - especially as he's calmed down so much since being out! But he looks like a hatrack and I'm embarrassed taking him out to events so I'm limiting them, and I'm being really careful to keep work light so its not like he's really fit which is using up calories.

What else can I do?
 
Do you have any recent pictures? :)

If he does well on grass then maybe add soaked grass nuts to his feed, you could also change the chaff to Alfa a oil and you can always add some veg or sunflower oil to his feed. I would also maybe offer him haylage in the field rather than hay.
 
No pics, I've avoided taking any! Ok, yeah will try adding oil. Can't do haylage as we don't use it, only have a store full of decent hay. He had a bale of haylage a few months ago and it sent him a bit loopy!
 
Hi Magic Melon,

Okay, I really DON'T want to scare you, but I think you should get the vet out to check your horse. I had a similar thing with my 16yr old TB - he had lost weight and muscle this winter despite me feeding him barley rings, glow and win, microfeed, alfa-a oil, sugar beet and fast fibre plus ad lib hay overnight and grass (turnout) during the day, and being worked 6 days a week. At first I thought poor grass was the problem, but the weight loss became rapid and the muscle loss extreme. He had a couple of episodes of mild colic but was still bright out hacking and producing lovely work in the school. The vet scanned his bladder for stones, performed a rectal exam, tested him for cushings and he had full bloods and a urine culture done. Everything came back clear and I was told to feed him MORE (God knows how I was meant to do that!) I was still convinced there was something wrong, esp when he did not gain weight with the spring grass (he has never been a fatty but he has also not been a hard TB to maintain condition on). Last weekend he had a 3rd mild bout of colic. Phoned vet who talked me through things over the phone (4 calls) and with some bute he got better. But although he was weeing, pooing and farting, for the rest of the week he was miserable and obviously painful and off his food (not at all like him). 3 days in I called the vet again very concerned and we arranged for him to have an abdo ultrasound. This was clear but, for completeness, she took a peritoneal tap. She took one look at this and referred him as an emergency. He was scoped and re-scanned and bloods repeated and they moved forward to surgery on Saturday. They found cancer in his colon, his caecum and his mesentary and I was advised not to wake him up as they could resect his colon but do nothing about his caecum and it could rupture at any time. I am absolutely heartbroken.

Obviously, this does NOT mean that your horse has cancer, but I would advise that if he has been losing weight but is still bright and his dental checks and worming are up to date, you get the problem investigated. It has been a hard winter which followed a rubbish summer of poor grass growth but I think that this actually means that some cases of more insidious problems are being overlooked - I definitely feel that had grass been more plentiful my horse's condition would have been taken more seriously by all of us much sooner.

It might make a small dent in your pocket, but it's much better than tearing a hole in your heart.

Best of luck.
 
hey i dont think you should be too worried tbh - the winter up here has been mad:( As you said, we only had snow again last week and the grass is only *just* coming:eek: If it makes you feel any better, my Sec D is still looking lean too and Im still having to put hay out!:( I had my 4 acre feild split and hoped to rest half but ive had to open it up so she can get at all the grass there is just now. That said, my mini is muzzled lol but she only has to glimpse a blade of green and goes pooooooofh into a beach ball:rolleyes::o I really think a month from now we'll see a big difference.. we have to!
 
To be honest, I was freaked out a bit about my horse 3 weeks ago cause he wasnt shedding properly, no grass to speak of & he was a bit ribby, but I started him on Alfa-A Oil & its made a huge difference!

Now I feed a full scoop in the morning with his course mix (Gain Cool Mix) and a full scoop as his lunch on its one & another full scoop in the evening with his dinner (Gain Cool Mix & beetpulp) so you have to feed practically the full recommended amount to get the results but it really does work.

Try not to panic too much - plus when his rugs came off, his coat immediately started to improve but it was too cold to take them off previously but having rugs on does impede their coats coming through properly sometimes!
 
The winter has dragged on, and we don't really seem to be having a spring! I'm in the Midlands and although our grass is growing, my native type (Connie x, I think x with cob) is still in a 75g rug most days because it's cold and wet. I like my horses fairly lean but he is leaner that I would have expected at this time of year. He's out 24/7, has grass but he's still gobbling up hay I put in the field so there can't be that much goodness in the grass yet.

MM, I think I would put yours back on the whole linseed. Whole linseed is where the linseed oil comes from, so if oil puts on weight then the whole linseed should too (plus you'll get fibre from the whole seed that you won't from oil). I've never been able to get my horses to eat much oil but they'll eat whole linseed by the bucket load. I think I'd also be inclined to try a digestive supplement, just to make sure the gut balance is right so he can utilise his food properly. I like Protexin Gut Balancer. What about adding barley too, maybe? Or switch his chaff to Alfa-A Oil?
 
chestnut cob said:
The winter has dragged on, and we don't really seem to be having a spring! I'm in the Midlands and although our grass is growing, my native type (Connie x, I think x with cob) is still in a 75g rug most days because it's cold and wet. I like my horses fairly lean but he is leaner that I would have expected at this time of year. He's out 24/7, has grass but he's still gobbling up hay I put in the field so there can't be that much goodness in the grass yet.

MM, I think I would put yours back on the whole linseed. Whole linseed is where the linseed oil comes from, so if oil puts on weight then the whole linseed should too (plus you'll get fibre from the whole seed that you won't from oil). I've never been able to get my horses to eat much oil but they'll eat whole linseed by the bucket load. I think I'd also be inclined to try a digestive supplement, just to make sure the gut balance is right so he can utilise his food properly. I like Protexin Gut Balancer. What about adding barley too, maybe? Or switch his chaff to Alfa-A Oil?
Click to expand...

When you say 'whole linseed' do you mean Micronised linseed? If not, I assume you cook it before feeding?

Agree on the protexin... it's meant to be fab stuff..
 
I too have a wb who came out of winter skinner than usual. I fed him Alfa a (molasses free) with their balancer and sugar beet with some outshine thrown in and it really worked a treat. Have stopped the outshine now as I don't want him to get too tubby but definitely recommend it despite it being a bit pricey. You can get a small bag, which is what I did as I knew I wouldn't be feeding it long term.
 
My WB was slimmer than I wanted coming out of winter. He was out rugged 24/7.
I am still giving him one tiny feed in the morning, but until a week ago he was getting a substantial morning feed and a few weeks earlier 2 feeds a day and haylage too. The grass is really late coming and it really is only in the last 2 weeks that mine have some fair grass to eat.
 
Have you spoken to a qualified nutritionist....? It is so strange that people never utilise this profession, when there are so many out there, and yet vets are called at the slightest swelling (well mine is). Don't just "wing" it and try all different manors of Feeds. Seek professional advice, oh and get your forage analysed so you know just how "good" it is..
 
Thanks everyone, lots of suggestions here! I'll look into them all and decide which one/s to try. I'm slightly more relieved that others are looking rather lean too at the moment. Mine looks rubbish, although his coat is coming out now and underneath is lovely and shiny.

thekookymonster - Your story has freaked me out, poor you first of all. So tragic. I will get the vet out if he doesn't start gaining weight very soon. Thank you for that.

Megalini_22 - Thing is, obviously every feed company offer advice but of course only on their own products so it does limit things a lot! With regard to getting my forage tested, our hay is all our own so we know exactly what type of grasses etc. went into it and we were very lucky to get it off the field in very good nic. Our grass, I know is low in selenium in particular but the vit & min supplement he's on is made by a local feed company who make it purely for this area (hence its higher in selenium etc.).
 
Hi MM
Have you tried boiled barley? My hard to put condition on TB and both our WBs have come out of the winter looking better than ever having had this on top of their normal feed. We use a catering urn and cook up 3 round scoops of barley with 1/2 scoop linseed (urn then filled to top with water) on low overnight.
The horses LOVE it and they've all put weight on over the winter (TB in particular usually goes back especially as she's had limited work given that I'm pregnant - no work and she stops eating the silly thing).
 
I used to feed this by the scoopload when I worked on a hunting yard and to other horses but not sure if I could feed it to a horse that is intolerant to cereal? (Unless someone knows better)?
 
I'd get him blood tested - I had the same issue with my new mare, she wasn't gaining weight despite spring grass, two massive hard feeds a day, ad lib hay and it turned out she has an abnormal liver function (possibly due to long-term ragwort poisoning) that's stopping her processing her food properly. She's on steroids and antibiotics for a month and looking better already. Worth getting it checked though as it can be life-shortening if it's left unchecked for any length of time.
 
Do get him vet checked just in case. A low level infection or pain will make him shed weight.

What he's getting to eat now SHOULD be enough so swapping lots of fees round prob won't help.

You say he spends a lot of time staring off into the distance? That's a sign of a mildly stressed/anxious horse. My friends pony was the same and just wouldn't put weight on until she got him settled and happy with a group of horses he liked. Does your boy actually LIKE his friends? Rather than 'they'll do'. Does he sleep enough when out 24/7? I think I'd try bring him in during the day for a bit (assuming he's happy and secure in a stable if that's what he's used to). He can relax and sleep, plus munch on some higher energy feed, like a big bucket of Alfa -Oil and speedibeet.

Also, is he warm enough/too warm? And are the midges bothering him? That can put a not-particularly-interested-in-food-anyways horse right off eating.
 
Norvite also carry Copra, which I was advised to feed when I called up to ask about a very similar problem! It's a coconut-based feed that's meant to be high fat, low starch, and it's supposed to be easy to digest and safe for horses on sugar watch. Seems to be working so far. Might be worth asking about?
 
Another who advises possible vet check might be worth looking at. That said yours sounds happy in himself & exhibitng no other problems so I would be inclined to speak to a nutritionist first & go from there, presuming teeth & worming are up to date.
Almost 3 years ago mine dropped a lot of weight, seemed quite depressed (only way I can think of to put it, sorry) and colicked (mildly thankfully) 3 or 4 times in a matter of weeks (having never done it previously in 7 years)
Teeth & worming were up to date, he was out of 24/7 (albeit on poor grazing) and I had tried different feed types with no success.
Admitted to the vet for examinations, various ultrasounds done (he came back looking like a patchwork pony the amount they clipped off him!), rectal biopsy, peroneal (sp?) taps and full ulcer scope (totally clear which surprised us as he cribs for Britain), which showed protein losing enteropathy & mild cancerous changes, cancer was a scare but he is permamently on a very low dose of steroids for his other tummy problems.
If you search through my recent posts I commented on a simple systems post, we had an ex-racer as a companion for 2 or 3 months, with good quality grazing & simple systems Top Nosh he looked a different horse, there's pictures on that thread. I've also had success using Rowan Barburys Ready Mash Extra but it is quite high in starch levels.
 
Try Calm & Condition with a scoop of linseed and some chaff thrown in.. my two love this and its gone in minutes (plus it’s the first time my arab has eaten her medication in her feed !) x
 
Try Lifeforce - is a live yeast product which focuses on the hind gut working effectively so the horse gets the most from their feed. It doesn't contain any calories in itself but by improving the gut function the horse gains weight from a forage based diet as nature intended. My nerves TB eventer always struggles with his condition and Lifeforce has been a revelation this winter. He has come out of the winter fully up to weight, with good muscle tone , plenty of energy with no fizziness and his coat is shiny like never before with the added bonus of his hooves growing better than before.

Was also the cheapest winter ever for feed as he had just chaff and hay and the Lifeforce - none of the extra feeds we have had to use before.:)
 
I struggled for 3 years to get a decent amount of weight on my tb. Had him scoped at vets and blood tested but nothing. Finally tried spillers conditoning fibre and conditionong cubes. Worked a treat. Obv phoned their nutrionist for feed plan. Started to see a difference in 2 weeks.

I will say that alot of people i know rate alfa a oil for weight gain
 
Something to consider is the possibility of his neck/back needing attention from the chiro.

Many years ago I had a TB that my boss always went on about him looking sick - couldn't get weight on him no matter how much I fed him. As he tripped a lot I had the chiro in and his 7th cervical vertebrae was out of alignment. This meant that he was inconstant low grade discomfort which became worse when he put his head down to the ground. I too used to see him standing around when his mates were off grazing.

After a year of manipulation the chiro did him under general anaesthetic and from that day on he gained weight rapidly and stayed consistently cuddly from then on on minimal feed.
 
I had the exact same problem with my warmblood using the exact same feed
As your self.. She is now on Dobson & horell build up mix, Alfa oil.. & speedi beet twice a day and looks fantastic..! We have her wormed every 13week & teeth checked every 6month x
 
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