Horse Struggling To Loose Weight: Correct Feed/Quantities? HELP!

K

k_sandy93

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 September 2013
Messages
63
Visit site
I have a 14.1hh Welsh Cob (always been a good Doer) think he weighs about 510kg by using a weight tape. He has some big competitions coming up with eventing (BE). Ive done a lot of research over the past 10 days on getting him to loose weight, does this sound right?

0.8kg Hifi Lite Unmollassed
2kg Competition Mix
NOTE: These are split over 2 meals a day. So 0.4kg Hifi/1kg Mix p/feed.

1kg Fibre Block overnight.

He goes on a Paddock with short grass from about 9am-6.30pm, so was thinking a 2kg-3kg hay net at night too? Doesn't sound like a lot (which is what Im questioning) but appart from the grass he's getting as roughage, I have to take into account the fibre block and Hifi? Which is roughly 2kg minimum..

Also worked 5 out of 7 days, with hard/intense work every 3/4 days.


Does this sound right to be eventing fit/slim?
 
I wouldn't be feeding him competition mix if he needs to lose weight. My mare would event off balancer and hifi light. Does he lack energy and need feed for that? I would also up the work a bit.
 
If he's that overweight I would seriously be reconsidering trying to compete until he's lost a LOT of that weight. I'd also agree with Honey08 about cutting out the hard feed.
 
Is he overweight or is it muscle. If he is very overweight he willinjure himself competiting. If fit but a bit on the fat side, cut out the hard feed, just give a balancer for vits, feed the hay block and leave out in bare paddock with min grass. He is out for a long time there is still goodness in the grass and they can find it even though we think it is bare. If mine i would turn out at 6 bring in a lunch time, give hay block. Then ride or what ever then give hay in stable overnight. He should be getting 9kgs of roughage a day.
 
I wouldn't event an overweight animal, nor would I feed it competition mix to do so. Priority always have to be having a healthy animal, competing is secondary. If he's significantly overweight, his fitness will likely be a big issue xc - not worth the risk.
 
He's not that overweight, you see pictures of him and he looks fine. I just want him that bit slimmer. He does really well with BE, and did PC Championships. He's in full work, he needs the hard feed as with cutting his grass down he looses the 'oomph'.
 
I think you got the wrong impression, he's certainly not 'fat' by no means! I wouldn't dare event something that was risky causing injury! He's been eventing all season, in top 10 every time including 3 BE wins in a row with dressage scores commonly over 70%, so it certainly does not affect him! I'll try and upload photos of him tomorrow, he just has the Grassroot Regionals coming up and I want him just that bit slimmer but he gets to a point and struggles to loose any more, but luckily this is working so far! Just without 'rich' green grass he looses his 'oomph' as that's where he sourced the enregy from, so hence the competition mix :) I've read the guidlines and he is getting the correct amount for his type/height.
 
I would give him more hay but soak it well so it loses calories but still has bulk. Cut back the comp mix and look at one of the high power fatty specific energy feeds, oomph without calories.
 
That sounds like a huge amount of competition mix which is normally high starch and sugar so not a good thing to feed to an overweight pony as it might increase the risk of getting laminitis.

510 kilos on a weight tape sounds like a lot by comparision I have a 13.3 stocky new forest who is a bit overweight he is 398 on the weight tape. My friends 15.1 HW cob is 600 kilos on the weight tape.
 
SO1 said:
510 kilos on a weight tape sounds like a lot by comparision I have a 13.3 stocky new forest who is a bit overweight he is 398 on the weight tape. My friends 15.1 HW cob is 600 kilos on the weight tape.
Click to expand...

My 14,1 highland, who is far from skinny is 405kg on the weight tape. I can't imagine how a welsh could be over 500, at that height and not be very overweight, yet be event fit. Either the OP's horse is very peculiar in build, or there's an error somewhere!

OP, I wouldn't be feeding 2kg of competition mix a day. That's an absurd quantity. I'd be looking to feed less, possibly oats, or something similar - I've always had better results keeping mine slim and fit with straights than heavily mollassed mixes.
 
I'd up the hay quantity a bit, but soak it. Or add some oat strw in.
I'd cut the competition mix and swap it to half scoop oats + propell/red cell
And if possible add in some extra work
 
If your pony is 14.1h and weighs 510kgs then, unless it is muscled like a Belgian Blue, it is overweight. This will put considerable strain on it's heart, lungs and tendons and ligaments, especially when jumping at speed. I would think that the reason it is running out of energy is more because it is not aerobically fit, not that it doesn't have enough calories. As someone above has said, mollassed feed is not the best way of getting usable energy from the horse.
 
JFTD said:
My 14,1 highland, who is far from skinny is 405kg on the weight tape. I can't imagine how a welsh could be over 500, at that height and not be very overweight, yet be event fit. Either the OP's horse is very peculiar in build, or there's an error somewhere!

OP, I wouldn't be feeding 2kg of competition mix a day. That's an absurd quantity. I'd be looking to feed less, possibly oats, or something similar - I've always had better results keeping mine slim and fit with straights than heavily mollassed mixes.
Click to expand...


Don't worry I have checked the specs. It quotes "Feed 600g per 100kg in body weight. Ie- A 350kg Pony should be fed 2.1kg p/day". So technically he is eating less mix than a small(ish) pony should be getting. I could be using the weight tape incorrectly, but he is not overweight at all. Im trying to figure out how to post a picture of him.
 
I would try again with the weight tape in case youve used it wrong, I've just come back off of hols for two weeks and think my 14.3hh Connemara looks chubby after not being worked and he weighs 408kg on the tape so that's quite a bit of difference with yours.
 
Yeah I'm checking that now, but how do I go abouts uploading a picture on here from my laptop to prove hes not what everyone thinks as "obese"??
If he was obese I wouldnt event him, all 4 of my horses come first, He's just a healthy weight, like a Pony Club Pony thats doing competing. I just wanted him even slimmer!
 
skipton_zps79c401b2.jpg
[/URL][/IMG] - Cross Country

- Hutton Showjumping which he also won.


See what I mean, just a standard healthy weight that I wanted just trimming down a little bit more :)
 
k_sandy93 said:
Don't worry I have checked the specs. It quotes "Feed 600g per 100kg in body weight. Ie- A 350kg Pony should be fed 2.1kg p/day". So technically he is eating less mix than a small(ish) pony should be getting. I could be using the weight tape incorrectly, but he is not overweight at all. Im trying to figure out how to post a picture of him.
Click to expand...

Well, they would say that, wouldn't they! They're trying to sell you it and make you spend as much as possible - it is in their best interests after all! I would really recommend switching to something you can feed less of for the same energy, but of course, that's your call.

If you've been eventing him successfully all season, then I'll hazard a guess you're using the tape wrong.

But if you want him to lose weight you have two choices - more work, or less feed. If you can, or are willing to, do neither, you're at an impasse!
 
JFTD said:
Well, they would say that, wouldn't they! They're trying to sell you it and make you spend as much as possible - it is in their best interests after all! I would really recommend switching to something you can feed less of for the same energy, but of course, that's your call.

If you've been eventing him successfully all season, then I'll hazard a guess you're using the tape wrong.

But if you want him to lose weight you have two choices - more work, or less feed. If you can, or are willing to, do neither, you're at an impasse!
Click to expand...


I wouldn't say that, every horse needs the correct vits/minerals for their type. If it was a conn surely such massively large companies wouldnt have such a good reputation? He's not on the full recommended amount for his type, with him needing to be that bit trimmer. But he's been on this regime and feed for about 5 days now and there is already a difference in his weight, and he also has that bit 'oomph' about him again now. Hopefully it will pay off for Regionals next weekend before he has his winter holiday!
 
If your going to focus on your horses weight then please stop using a weigh tape it is only an indicator and can be very far out depending on the way your horse is built - go to a weigh bridge!

You know your own horse if you think his weight is affecting performance then change his feed but remember winter is coming and your horse is likely to lose some weight from that anyway.
 
k_sandy93 said:
I wouldn't say that, every horse needs the correct vits/minerals for their type. If it was a conn surely such massively large companies wouldnt have such a good reputation? He's not on the full recommended amount for his type, with him needing to be that bit trimmer. But he's been on this regime and feed for about 5 days now and there is already a difference in his weight, and he also has that bit 'oomph' about him again now. Hopefully it will pay off for Regionals next weekend before he has his winter holiday!
Click to expand...


Oh god. You're missing the point - most of their nutrition comes from forage, and mineral / vitamin / macronutrient content varies by location and type. Therefore you cannot expect a generic "for a Xkg horse feed Xkg of feed" to be necessarily appropriate for any given horse.

Do they have a good reputation? I have to say, my experience is that their reputation (amongst veterinary scientists) is of being stuck in the dark ages of nutritional science, and largely driven by their profit margins.

As I say, if you're happy with his feed, and you're not planning on upping his workload, exactly what magic trick did you expect to be offered on here by asking how to help him lose weight?
 
JFTD said:
Oh god. You're missing the point - most of their nutrition comes from forage, and mineral / vitamin / macronutrient content varies by location and type. Therefore you cannot expect a generic "for a Xkg horse feed Xkg of feed" to be necessarily appropriate for any given horse.

Do they have a good reputation? I have to say, my experience is that their reputation (amongst veterinary scientists) is of being stuck in the dark ages of nutritional science, and largely driven by their profit margins.

As I say, if you're happy with his feed, and you're not planning on upping his workload, exactly what magic trick did you expect to be offered on here by asking how to help him lose weight?
Click to expand...

Nope, I am not missing the point. I simply wrote this to double check with others but it seems little people understand (Im sorry if this upset you as it appears?), I wasn't looking for any "magic trick" as you call it. His workload has increased recently, with more intensive training with interval work/speed training/hill work at a set routine. But after speaking to a Horse Nutrition/Feed Specialist saying he should be eating 1-2% of his body weight p/day, at a 75:25 ratio of forage to hard feed, I did some research online and these quantities seemed correct and I even double checked it back with the lady and she said that was perfect as she gave me a helping hand.
 
k_sandy93 said:
Nope, I am not missing the point. I simply wrote this to double check with others but it seems little people understand (Im sorry if this upset you as it appears?), I wasn't looking for any "magic trick" as you call it. His workload has increased recently, with more intensive training with interval work/speed training/hill work at a set routine. But after speaking to a Horse Nutrition/Feed Specialist saying he should be eating 1-2% of his body weight p/day, at a 75:25 ratio of forage to hard feed, I did some research online and these quantities seemed correct and I even double checked it back with the lady and she said that was perfect as she gave me a helping hand.
Click to expand...

You are missing the point - why ask, if you're not prepared to listen to any of the advice given?

Seriously, if you're happy, go for it. The early posts were clearly not relevant since they relate to the (clearly incorrect weight tape) information in your OP. The pony looks fine - yes he may well stand the loss of some weight, but if you're happy with your plan, that's fine.

I'm not upset by your choice for your horse. I'm infuriated by the faulty logic that is perpetuated by feed companies, which you have repeated above about recommended feeding amounts. As a scientist, that royally pees me off - not that you said it, but that companies can get away with misleading people like this. It's wrong, and there's no two ways about it. But that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on your management of your horse.
 
JFTD said:
You are missing the point - why ask, if you're not prepared to listen to any of the advice given?

Seriously, if you're happy, go for it. The early posts were clearly not relevant since they relate to the (clearly incorrect weight tape) information in your OP. The pony looks fine - yes he may well stand the loss of some weight, but if you're happy with your plan, that's fine.

I'm not upset by your choice for your horse. I'm infuriated by the faulty logic that is perpetuated by feed companies, which you have repeated above about recommended feeding amounts. As a scientist, that royally pees me off - not that you said it, but that companies can get away with misleading people like this. It's wrong, and there's no two ways about it. But that doesn't necessarily have any bearing on your management of your horse.
Click to expand...

I have listened, otherwise I wouldn't of checked if my weight tape is incorrect? Just everyone assumed he was severly overweight and I am therefore causing 'damage' to my horse and giving the impression I am maybe eventing him for the thrill and not taking into any account 'harm'.

It is clearly evident that my weight tape is incorrect (hence people assuming he is fat on legs haha), but then again he is very muscly and well built so may be a bit heavier than standard Welsh D's. I've never had any issues with feed companies, and not everyone is maybe as clued up as you or being a scientist and what-not, so I do try to put faith in my feed companies and to be honest he is loosing weight, the amount of mix he is recieving certainly isnt putting any weight on him as such and its giving him that 'oomph' to make him that bit more active thus in the long term loosing weight more efficiently in comparison to if he were lazy.

I am happy with his progress, as I said he is by far not overweight or fat, you can see from the pictures, it isnt affecting his competing with three wins, two 6th's and a 5th with BE this year only not being placed once, he always comes first and others have noticed after his "diet" (if you want to call it that" he has lost weight and is starting to look more "sport horse slim". If Im honest, he's going the best hes ever been and thats saying something!
 
That's great - honestly, if you're not concerned about his weight, and he's performing as you hope, you have no reason to justify your management to anyone (though putting it up here will elicit comments of this nature). The reason people leapt to the conclusion you were competing an obese horse is because the sad reality is that some people do. The fact that you're not in that category is fab for your horse - but the leap most posters made is unfortunately completely understandable in the context of a lot of owners... Don't take it personally - be pleased that it doesn't apply to you rather than hurt that people who don't know you on t'internet thought otherwise.

But, I would say, as general advice, don't believe everything the feed companies tell you - do your own independent research, and if you need specific advice, you'd be better to consult a veterinary professional. It may, or may not affect your horse's welfare in some situations, but it will certainly help your wallet!
 
Sorry, I dont mean to just repeat what everyone has said but that amount of mix for a start is ludicrous but given to a cob is even more ridiculous. Never in my life would i feed such high amounts of starch to a cob.
Shame on whichever nutritionist ok'd that!
seriously, feed companies are notorious for giving poor advice just to boost sales, especially for their more expensive products.
 
k_sandy93 said:
I have a 14.1hh Welsh Cob (always been a good Doer) think he weighs about 510kg by using a weight tape. He has some big competitions coming up with eventing (BE). Ive done a lot of research over the past 10 days on getting him to loose weight, does this sound right?

0.8kg Hifi Lite Unmollassed
2kg Competition Mix
NOTE: These are split over 2 meals a day. So 0.4kg Hifi/1kg Mix p/feed.

1kg Fibre Block overnight.

He goes on a Paddock with short grass from about 9am-6.30pm, so was thinking a 2kg-3kg hay net at night too? Doesn't sound like a lot (which is what Im questioning) but appart from the grass he's getting as roughage, I have to take into account the fibre block and Hifi? Which is roughly 2kg minimum..

Also worked 5 out of 7 days, with hard/intense work every 3/4 days.


Does this sound right to be eventing fit/slim?
Click to expand...

I so know how you feel. I have a Clydesdale and I battle between weight and oomph all the time.

I personally would cut out the competition mix as it will have feed in it to assist in maintaining weight as well as adding oomph. Instead go for straight oats. They can provide the additional energy without increasing weight.

Try if you can to be doing at least 1 hours steady trotting each day to increase fitness too. With increased fitness you get a sharper horse.

What I have found now with my girl is to keep her on billiard table length grass, where she can graze 24/7, I have a happy horse that I can then top up with feed when work requires. She has free access to a multi mineral block and also a block of Rock salt.
 
Toast said:
Sorry, I dont mean to just repeat what everyone has said but that amount of mix for a start is ludicrous but given to a cob is even more ridiculous. Never in my life would i feed such high amounts of starch to a cob.
Shame on whichever nutritionist ok'd that!
seriously, feed companies are notorious for giving poor advice just to boost sales, especially for their more expensive products.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for your opinion, but he is continuing to loose weight with the mix, and the mix has worked wonders on him just giving him that little bit extra energy to really show off his paces giving him that bit more 'edge'. He feels brilliant, better than ever which says something as he is one hell of a pony.. He goes on holiday soon after the Regionals anyway, with a winter off. He's only on this short term, just till the season ends which is about 3 weeks :)
 
I think it's difficult to tell from those photos about the his condition.

You are feeding a huge amount of competition mix, and as others say there are far better things out there to feed to a fat prone horse (which cobs are). I guess you're after a meaner, leaner xc machine - which is fine. It's just about tweaking his management.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top