Horse struggling with barefoot - "Helpful comments"

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WindyStacks

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My horse (17.2hh ISH, 10 yo) had his shoes pulled 3.5 weeks ago and we knew it was going to be a process... proud frog on one of the hinds and very flat in front.

The hind has surprised me - very tender at around 7-10 days - then by the time the hind boots arrived he was over it and I noticed today that the frog is no longer proud - yay!

BUT, he's still really footy on the front and today I had to cut short my lesson as he's totally unwilling to extend in trot. It's a good soft surface arena and was actually lame in trot until I popped the boots back on.

I KNOW I'm doing the right thing by him long-term - and am actually just about to move somewhere were there is NO FaRRIER (which will remove temptation ;)).

The "helpful comments" are getting me down - obviously everyone thinks I'm absolutely crackers and they're worrying about the chips, heel landings and I've even been recommended to get eggbar shoes on the front whilst it comes good. :(

In addition, I had to race away at the weekend last minute and upon my return discovered that he'd been kept in because he was "sore".

Right now I feel it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

Please give me hope and inspiration - and also some choice phrases to use. I've considered "I'm happy to answer any barefoot questions you have, what would you like to know?".
 
WindyStacks said:
My horse (17.2hh ISH, 10 yo) had his shoes pulled 3.5 weeks ago and we knew it was going to be a process... proud frog on one of the hinds and very flat in front.

The hind has surprised me - very tender at around 7-10 days - then by the time the hind boots arrived he was over it and I noticed today that the frog is no longer proud - yay!

BUT, he's still really footy on the front and today I had to cut short my lesson as he's totally unwilling to extend in trot. It's a good soft surface arena and was actually lame in trot until I popped the boots back on.

I KNOW I'm doing the right thing by him long-term - and am actually just about to move somewhere were there is NO FaRRIER (which will remove temptation ;)).

The "helpful comments" are getting me down - obviously everyone thinks I'm absolutely crackers and they're worrying about the chips, heel landings and I've even been recommended to get eggbar shoes on the front whilst it comes good. :(

In addition, I had to race away at the weekend last minute and upon my return discovered that he'd been kept in because he was "sore".

Right now I feel it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

Please give me hope and inspiration - and also some choice phrases to use. I've considered "I'm happy to answer any barefoot questions you have, what would you like to know?".
Click to expand...

No suggestion sorry but if its any consolation I am going thro the same problem. Took shoes off at start of year, but been on paddock rest for a couple of months. Started to ride again and is a bit footy on stones.
Everyone is telling me to get her shod (She'll wear her feet down faster than she can grow them.....She isn't a cob you know...." etc. Just ordered a pair of cavallos
 
It might be worth PM'ing LucyPriory (BF trimmer) on here for some help.

I would keep using the boots on the fronts as he needs them at the moment. Try to exercise him on any surface that he's comfortable on with the boots, maybe just stick to walk for now. If he can cope in the school without the boots in walk, just do that for a few mins each day, even if it's in-hand. Don't expect to be able to carry on at his previous level of work for now.

If anyone questions you, just reiterate that your moving somewhere with no farrier and that you want to take him BF here so you can have the support of hoofcare professionals if needed.
 
Stick to walking for a while ,match the work to his level of comfort you have to tailor work to tolerance and it may be quite a while until he's ready to " have a lesson " while you forget about the feet .
I would advise that you get a good trimmer on side to advise you of you post where you live people on here may have advice on that .
 
I agree with Faracat/GS, I think expecting them to cope with full schooling/lessons quite so quickly is a big ask, especially as they are often moving differently or feeling a bit footy and holding themselves and creating muscle stiffnesses too.
 
To be fair if your horse is so sore people ar enoticing and not wanting to make him walk on hard ground you either need to bed him down well, put boots and pads on, bute or shoe. You can't just leave him to hobble along in the meantime
 
Hate to say it but I do almost agree with the above (SusieT).
OP what is your motivation for removing the shoes, is it because of issues your horse has or for your own reasons?
Having him barefoot now is making life very difficult for you on your current yard especially if he is sore, and un-sound on a surface is very sore!
After about a week of feeling their feet a horse that has it's shoes removed should not be sore on grass or arena surfaces but may feel some stones on tracks/ gritty tarmac etc and hence may need boots for hacking.
If your horse cannot move around due to the soreness it will undoubtedly get worse, and may lead to other issues- eg weight due to lack of exercise etc etc. If he were mine I would at least put the shoes back on the fronts until you have moved yard and thought realistically about whether barefoot is for your horse and how you can realistically overcome anticipated problems.
 
Yes, I was probably being a little ambitious hoping to have a "normal" lesson and I will continue to walk, either a v small amount of ridden - or in-hand until the situation improves.

My trimmer is coming Saturday so I will discuss it more with her then.

Reasons? In no particular order
1) there is no farrier where I will be living
2) I've always had my horses bf (including large Hanoverian)
3) he does not have problems "yet", but if his feet are in this awful condition aged just 10 it doesn't bode well for the future in terms of joint articulation and health

Boots it is then.
 
I've tried mine unshod several times, including a years turnout at grass. Doesn't work for him, he's much happier with shoes. All the others I've had have been fine without. I wouldn't be happy with a horse limping about the place, can't he live out for a bit?
 
Yep, boot him up (with pads if required) and keep him comfy. :)

As his hooves are in awful condition you'll probably have to take things very slowly with him. Getting him comfy is key, as once he's comfy he can move more and the movement will improve his hooves.
 
Surely 'booting him up with pads' will yes, definately make him more comfortable in the short-term, but will not be a long-term solution, will be useless for turnout, and will create some really super sweaty thrushy conditions in this current weather which will then create more problems?
 
Hopefully it will only be needed short term. If you're going somewhere with no farrier, you either get the horse you have going well unshod, or you sell it and get one that is already unshod. I assume that WS wants to take this horse with her, so getting him BF before the move is sensible. Many horses need to be booted at first, it's not a definite deal breaker.
 
To my surprise the boots stay on overnight during turnout. I was delighted not to have to hunt them down.

As for putting him "out to pasture", it's my understanding that this will not necessarily bring us to the final goal - he will still "feel" more difficult surfaces - and then there's the sugar issue...

Tbh whilst desperately impatient I am prepared for it to take time, I think the Warmblood probably took time - but I had her at home so didn't have interference!

I think what people find hard to reconcile is that it is essentially rehab and movement is paramount - even if sore.

Yes, I'll be taking him with me. Grazing much more "rockley-esque" and hacking mostly lovely Tarmac and beaches.
 
I was lucky when CM ended up having to go BF. She was sound on most surfaces straight away, which was a surprise given how shoe sick her hooves were. Even so i did have a few 'she'll never cope' comments and it is hard when all you are trying to do is the best for the horse.

WS - good luck, I hope he improves soon and is ready for beach rides by the time you move. :)
 
'Many horses need to be booted at first'- Do they Faracat? For turnout? I would expect booting initially when riding out on roads, tracks etc. but have had quite a few barefoot horses and not one has needed booting at turnout, and that includes a TB (just out of racing and shoes) and a footsore cushings sufferer- both were sound on grass and on an arena surface but very sore on stones.
 
My laminitic pony is wearing her boots with gel pads 23/24 atm with no problems at all.

It may be an idea to exercize in hand atm or keep it to walk not work as such.
 
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My horse is footy ATM, which I think I'm putting down to grass changes and running out of his supplement, slapped wrist for me. He's fine in walk on good surfaces, but not happy any faster really. I want to keep going as his feet have changed so much in 8 months of if I'm honest not perfectly consistent work, plus we've just got a 2yo who's feet are marvellous, and something to aspire to. My family make continuous helpful comments asking when I'm going to put shoes back on. Hey ho.
 
WindyStacks said:
To my surprise the boots stay on overnight during turnout. I was delighted not to have to hunt them down.

As for putting him "out to pasture", it's my understanding that this will not necessarily bring us to the final goal - he will still "feel" more difficult surfaces - and then there's the sugar issue...

Tbh whilst desperately impatient I am prepared for it to take time, I think the Warmblood probably took time - but I had her at home so didn't have interference!

I think what people find hard to reconcile is that it is essentially rehab and movement is paramount - even if sore.

Yes, I'll be taking him with me. Grazing much more "rockley-esque" and hacking mostly lovely Tarmac and beaches.
Click to expand...
Apologies I missed this post re boots.

Movement is important but at the horses pace if sore.
 
serenityjane said:
'Many horses need to be booted at first'- Do they Faracat? For turnout? I would expect booting initially when riding out on roads, tracks etc. but have had quite a few barefoot horses and not one has needed booting at turnout, and that includes a TB (just out of racing and shoes) and a footsore cushings sufferer- both were sound on grass and on an arena surface but very sore on stones.
Click to expand...

If the horse needs boots for turnout to start with, it should have them. The horse's comfort is paramount.
 
Faracat said:
If the horse needs boots for turnout to start with, it should have them. The horse's comfort is paramount.
Click to expand...
Totally agree.

Just a general question, if a horse needs shoes for the rest of its life, what is wrong with choosing boots in the long term?
 
amandap said:
Totally agree.

Just a general question, if a horse needs shoes for the rest of its life, what is wrong with choosing boots in the long term?
Click to expand...

I think boots interfere with breakover and I am unconvinced their long term use is a good idea.
They are scary to use on big moving horses I nearly had an awful accident on J whose got ridiculously expressive back legs when he stood on his front boot with his hind foot.
However all my horses except one have boots and I use them when I need to but then I also use shoes when it suits me .
 
WindyStacks said:
My horse (17.2hh ISH, 10 yo) had his shoes pulled 3.5 weeks ago and we knew it was going to be a process... proud frog on one of the hinds and very flat in front.

The hind has surprised me - very tender at around 7-10 days - then by the time the hind boots arrived he was over it and I noticed today that the frog is no longer proud - yay!

BUT, he's still really footy on the front and today I had to cut short my lesson as he's totally unwilling to extend in trot. It's a good soft surface arena and was actually lame in trot until I popped the boots back on.

I KNOW I'm doing the right thing by him long-term - and am actually just about to move somewhere were there is NO FaRRIER (which will remove temptation ;)).

The "helpful comments" are getting me down - obviously everyone thinks I'm absolutely crackers and they're worrying about the chips, heel landings and I've even been recommended to get eggbar shoes on the front whilst it comes good. :(

In addition, I had to race away at the weekend last minute and upon my return discovered that he'd been kept in because he was "sore".

Right now I feel it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back.

Please give me hope and inspiration - and also some choice phrases to use. I've considered "I'm happy to answer any barefoot questions you have, what would you like to know?".
Click to expand...

Sorry no help but know where your coming from my boy had to be shod when BF did not work for him.
 
My old boy goes out in RX therapy boots, with thick pads in them. He has very thin soles - he has to move and stimulate his feet, but he won't move if he's uncomfortable. The difference in his soles in just a few weeks is impressive, lots of callous forming. If the ground is soft following rain, he doesn't need them now. A godsend, those boots.
 
Thank you everyone for your words.

I'm not ready to "give up" yet, and there have been definite changes to his feet - just 3.5 weeks ago the boots were a good, tight fit around the bottom of the hoof and now there's definite play where he had terrible flare - I guess it's harder to see positive changes when you see them every day. And there is definite growth of sole and changes to the frog. So I think good things are happening - I just think people freak with the chips and fear of non-peripheral loading!

I'm experimenting the best I can with boots on/off. The walk up to the field is about quarter of a mile and there are gravelly bits, rocky bits and very uneven bits. So when I've got control and the grass isn't like concrete I pop the boots on for the walk and then take them off for grazing.

When I walk him out on tarmac (with boots) he's footy for the first 50m or so and then powers off in walk extending nicely, so it's coming.

Nod and smile, nod and smile.

As goldenstar says, I couldn't use them long-term for "proper" work as he's a good mover so I guess the realistic end goal is that his feet are good enough for a really smart pair of renegades which only get used when I'm group hacking over tricky trails.

Does anyone have any advice for grazing? He's in a field group of just 3 and horses aren't allowed out on their own. So this means he's only able to go out when they do - currently nights, and this means approx. 13 hours in the field. Great for 13 hours stress-free movement, but is that much grass OK? Right now there's no happy medium, so it'd be either box or 13 hours. Any ideas? Someone suggested 1 night in, 1 night out.

He's getting a good supplement (the one Rockley promote) and he's on a small, as low sugar as possible hardfeed 2 x day. Weight is stable (no hard work obv.!) but when he's able to be brought back into work he'll be fed accordingly - so don't think I'm starving him!
 
Which suppliment? Rockley don't promote a specific one. Have you considered a mineral analysis? What else are you feeding?

What boots and pads are you using? It concerns me that he is footy in boots. When mine went bare she was lame in shoes with very thin flat bruised soles but she was sound in boots and pads on all surfaces. I used the thick eps pads in cavallo simple boots for exercise and she was bare on a deep bed.

Have you treated for thrush?
 
I don't know the name of the supplement off the top of my head, but it is referenced on their site/blog.

For mineral analysis, do you mean on him or his environment? I wouldn't get the fields done as he's moving within weeks.

The boots are equifusions (no pads) and bought on the joint advice and analysis of my trimmer and the hoof boutique. They are not the "best" boot on the market - but the only to fit his sorry feet.

He is not lame in the traditional sense in boots, but is footy - ie choppy in trot. Has seen multiple vets over last 2 months due to purchase exams and injury - no underlying issues detected.

No thrush.
 
If he is footy in boots you need pads, they also help provide stimulation. I am unfamiliar with those boots but in my humble opinion a decent transition boot needs to allow the use of decent pads (so renegades whilst lovely aren't so good as first boots). Look at Equine Podiatry Supplies and try the 4lb pads, they are cheap as chips and will have him bouncing along.

I meant mineral analysis of his forage but if this is changing then don't bother yet. Check which suppliment it is, they vary and some horses need higher levels of certain minerals. The first suppliment I used I had to add extra copper and mag ox to combat footiness.

It might be worth using a gentle thrush treatment like redhorse sole paint as thrush can be low grade enough that it isn't obvious to you but is making the horse footy.

You need him moving comfortably before you will make any progress.
 
Thank you for the great advice and pads ordered! I do have a magnesium oxide supplement which I've been bunging in additional to the foot one because I figured as much as anything with the weather he needs his salts replenished!

Just checked, the supplement I'm using is the progressive earth one and the boots are these:- http://www.hoofbootique.co.uk/boots...sion/equine-fusion-jogging-shoe-ultimate.html - as I say, they fit his feet at this/that point as opposed to the other way around!

Renegades (to me) look like the dream boot - if and when his feet will ever conform to their sizing!

I will get something for any potential thrush - his feet had not been picked out over the weekend so in theory there could be a nasty lurking!
 
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