Horse that won't be caught!

[jessyickle]

Hi, I'm fairly new to these message boards so not sure if i'm posting in the right place (also in stable yard forum!)
The title is pretty self-explanatory in the fact that my horse simply won't be caught, i've done lot of research into this problem but i'm struggling to find a solution.

I've owned my horse for about 2 years and he is now a young 7 year old. He is turned out in a paddock with one other horse and has always been good to catch until the problem started in around march time this year.

He is different to most horses that won't be caught in the way that a lot of the time (not all the time) he will come to me, let me groom him, pick out his feet, spray him with fly spray fuss him, give him treats but as soon as the headcollar goes over his nose or even near him he is off and there is no stopping him. After this has happened, he won't come anywhere near me until i try again later in the day. Sometimes he won't let me near him at all but follows me around at a distance and watches me constantly. On occasions I have opened the field gate and let him run to his stable by himself in desperate attempt to get him in at night ready for a show the next day. However once he has run in (which is not ideal i know) he won't let me near him in the stable and snorts loudly. It is very strange because the next day he is perfect and he is a horse that loves attention. Often, once he is caught he is absolutely fine.

I'm really unsure what to do next, I've tried all of the usual tactics. He is now living out and i just take him a net down in the evening and give him a fuss. I haven't been able to ride for weeks and i don't try to catch him everytime i go into the field.

any suggestions? thankyou lots! xxx

 

[cbmcts]

If he will let you close, could you use a headcollar with a nose band that unbuckles?

Open the headcollar right up and slip the head piece around his neck, then slide it up behind his ears and buckle the noseband in place...

Hope that makes sense!

 

[Dancing Queen]

hi you say the usual tricks - what are those tricks you have tried?

 

[swampdonkey]

if its the headcollar that upsets him, pop a field safe headcollar on and leave it on. Worth a try. hope it helps, it is really frustrating having a horse that you can't catch.

 

[tallyho!]

I always put the crown-piece over first, hold then end and the buckle, then slip noseband on because of this exact problem many years ago. I do this to this day and find this much easier than nose on first.

Your horse sounds as if he's trying to dominate events concerning you. he's pretty much got you wrapped around his little finger.

He WILL be caught and WILL lead. Take control of him again and tell him he has to do as he is told. Right now, he knows you wont catch him and thinks its great! You are not the boss. You are just someone who comes and gives him his daily fuss and feed and lets him do anything he wants. This is not good.

Get the headcollar on, spend time leading, fussing, leading more fussing. Tie him up in the yard and THEN groom and feed. Spend as much time as you can doing this. Don't do it in the field.

That stable thing HAS to stop. Take charge. He's very naughty to do that.

 

[scatty_mare]

Your horse sounds as if he's trying to dominate events concerning you. he's pretty much got you wrapped around his little finger.

I agree with Tallyho. It sounds like your horse has a very well-trained servant!
Time to change that I think!
It's difficult to be the boss when they won't be caught, but you need to persevere. If you go with the aim of catching him, you must catch him. He is not scared of you, he is just being naughty!
I think the idea of a field safe headcollar is good. If he won't be caught remove the other horse from the field and then follow him until he gives up. Don't chase, just follow relentlessly keeping him constantly on the move, constantly focussing on you. Don't let him stop and graze. Sooner or later he will give in and will probably just stand still and let you catch him. It might take hours the first time, but will get less and less.
I wouldn't use feed to catch him for all the safety reasons, plus you don't want to have to bribe him to do what you want, you want him to respect you and do it willingly.

I also used to ride a mare who wouldn't let you near her with a headcollar, but weirdly could always be caught with a fly mask!

I'm sure it will get better if you persevere, good luck!

 

[jessyickle]

Hello,

thankyou to everyone who has given me some great advice. After i posted this message I went straight into the field and ignored him, sat in the barrow and listened to my music for 5 hours!!! he came up to sniff me in the end and as soon as i moved as foot to sit up he was off. I then made a small paddock and made him run until he gave in (as mentioned) which was ace, i caught him 5 hours after i entered the field but i had to do this by putting the leadrope round his neck first - massive improvment. gradually he got better each day but i still had to do the same routine. HOWEVER he has now learnt to avoid being caught by jumping the fencing in his little paddock- back to square one. This has been going on for months so all the usual - leaving him out, leaving a headcollar on, bringing all the others in doesn't work! I've also stopped feeding him/fussing him in the field. But since he now knows he can jump his small paddock its ebcome dangerous to chase him away.
i'm at my witts end now, back to square one!!!

xx

 

[tazzle]

hmmmmm so what has been learnt here ?

chasing horses can lead to several endings

they give up because they dont want chased any more
they find a way out
they get "nasty"

but even if caught are they actually "willing" ? I would guess not.



You say you have tried treats ...... but have you actually tried linking the treat to the behaviour ..... have you tried to target train your horse to view the headcollar as a positive rather than a negative experience ( he might have been hurt when wearing one in the past ?)

treating a horse that has exhibited a behviour you want is not bribery if they don't know its coming ... but they may learn that doing as you ask gets a reward ( showing them the food first is luring / maybe even bribery )

If you want to target train him to WANT to put the headcollar on just pm me

 

[sandraban]

hey, my pony is not very well at being caught when he is out with other ponies now we turn him out on his own and he is a lot better however it did take a while too get him too come in too call..... we now leave the head collar on while he is out because he would turn his bum on you once you tried too put the head collar on and every time he comes out of the field gate he will get a mint and when he goes in the stable he has his feed so he almost has something too look forward too when he comes in from the field? as well as this if he doesn't like the head collar being put on why don't you practice putting his head collar on and taking it off in the stable or in an arena and every time you put it on with no problems praise him and treat him

hope this helps

 

[Tinypony]

I can vouch for Tazzle, she would be able to help you with this if you are patient and follow her advice.
However you go about it, hope you can get this sorted.

 

[tazzle]

how did things go today ?

 

[fburton]

I was wondering that too!

 

[Elsbells]

If you had a Dobermann dog that ran off on a walk, barked at other walkers and refused to come back to you when called it. And if it also growled at you, when asked it to move off the sofa so you could sit down??? Go on, be honest, what would you do?

I'm betting you wouldn't put up with it eh?

You would get that dog back on the lead, shake it, make him walk strictly to heel and do as he's told. Of course you would push it off the sofa and insist on it respecting you. You'd make it stay on the floor and do as it's told.
And do you think this trained and disiplined Dobermann would be a happy or unhappy dog?

So why o why are you not doing this with your horse

Get a grip. Get it in and that headcollar on. He goes out when you say so. He comes in when you say so. He eats when you say so. He does the things he likes to do, when YOU say so and not when he says so,.... period!

 

[fburton]

You would get that dog back on the lead, shake it, make him walk strictly to heel and do as he's told. Of course you would push it off the sofa and insist on it respecting you. You'd make it stay on the floor and do as it's told.
And do you think this trained and disiplined Dobermann would be a happy or unhappy dog?

So why o why are you not doing this with your horse

Do you recommend disciplining the horse once you have him 'back on the lead' (i.e. caught and headcollar on)? If not, what?

 

[Elsbells]

Do you recommend disciplining the horse once you have him 'back on the lead' (i.e. caught and headcollar on)? If not, what?

If you mean a beating etc, then no. There should never be any need to and I for one, have never ever done so.

If the dog is restrained and told to behave, then that is enough. He won't like being on the lead, he would far rather run around in the bushes of course, doing as he pleases and having wild doggy fun.

Being told what to do and being restrained is such a drag

 

[fburton]

If you mean a beating etc, then no. There should never be any need to and I for one, have never ever done so.

I was just wondering what you thought the equine equivalent of 'shaking' was, and how in practice you would go about 'telling the horse to behave'.

If the dog is restrained and told to behave, then that is enough. He won't like being on the lead, he would far rather run around in the bushes of course, doing as he pleases and having wild doggy fun.

Being told what to do and being restrained is such a drag

I imagine restraint/loss of freedom means even more to a horse than it does to a dog, let alone being separated from other herd members (not sure if that was the case here). So wouldn't that make the horse less willing and therefore harder to be caught because he thinks he has more to lose?

 

[Snoopy1]

I haven't read all of the replies here so may be repeating something that another has suggested but have you had a good look at his environment, surroundings and routine? I bought my horse knowing he could have the odd day when he would be a bit tricky to catch. However over the following months, he got worse and worse until I was in the situation described by yourself - opening gates to let him come in, sending others out to try and get him and often left him out as he wouldn't be caught. He would always let me get within a foot of him then run off if I got any closer. Jumping fences was also an easy option if required!

I was not particularly happy at the yard we were at, neither was he and I felt that him not being caught was possibly a symptom of this (although it was just a hunch I had). Eventually I took the plunge and moved yards. Our catching problem had all but disappeared within a week so I guess my hunch was right!!!!! He still has the odd day (about once every 6 months) when he doesn't want to come in, but that is usually when something has been going on that has upset him. He is now usually standing at the gate waiting for me and neighs when he sees me. I always leave a field safe head collar on him just in case but it really is rare that he will not come to me these days. I would really suggest that you consider all aspects of your horses routine in trying to tackle this problem. Good luck - I know how frustrating it can be!

 

[frozzy]

I can sympathise with your predicament. Last years foal was weaned by removing her mother whilst she remained with the other youngstock. No problems there as she had learned to lead and was the best foal I had ever headcollared. So accepting and no resistance. The day the vet came to microchip her I just caught and held her whilst the vet chipped her. Headcollar off, no problems.
Until the next time I went to catch her for the farrier and got the noseband of the headcollar on and she shot off backwards. This behaviour went on for months with us trying every which way to get the headcollar on. The strangest thing was that whilst she would have nothing to do with the headcollar and rope she would happily stand and let you do anything else pick up feet, brush etc. I reckoned it was the microchipping that had caused this. She remembered the last ttime we put one on her, it had hurt.
So one day we decided we would go all out to catch her and if not we made a route to the barn in the hope she would follow her sister in.
She stood at the gate next to her sister who was by this time on the headcollar and I stood at her bum with my hand on it to discourage her from backing away. There was a fence on her other side so she was pretty well boxed in on all sides. She isnt a panicky type of filly so when we stood a couple of minutes my friend who wasnt in the fild but leaning over the gate by some fluke got it over her nose and fastned it. I quickly attatched a long lead on one side and a lunge on the other.
Thats when the fun started. She reared, threw herelf over backwards,landed on the deck, got up and repeated all she could think of doing to get rid of the headcollar and us. We started at the top of a hill and ended at the bottom fence! My poor husband and friends were like rodeo wranglers!! MY OH said he couldnt fight much longer as she had pulled every muscle in his body and he looked ashen. I was concerned he would have a heart attack!! I got behind her and encouraged her to walk forward and by slow process we got to the gate. Then she didnt want to leave the field because it was her safe place but a feed bucket solved that and for the first time in a year she walked into the stable she was born in.
For the last six weeks she has practiced with headcollar on and off, walked up and down the alleyway in the barn, swapped boxes to get mucked out. I had arranged for Steve Thompson an intelligent horsemanship trainer to come and do some work with her in the Dually but the weather has been awful every time he has arranged to come (over 80 miles!) he has had to cancel. So last night I decided I would put her out into the field and hope to God she wouldnt repeat her previous behaviour because I am wrecked with arthritis and no way can I do much if they are naughty, I just have to let go.My fears were for nothing, she was an angel but the telling will be tonight when I bring her in (or try to!!) She has on a fieldsafe headcollar.

 

[Elsbells]

I was just wondering what you thought the equine equivalent of 'shaking' was, and how in practice you would go about 'telling the horse to behave'.


I imagine restraint/loss of freedom means even more to a horse than it does to a dog, let alone being separated from other herd members (not sure if that was the case here). So wouldn't that make the horse less willing and therefore harder to be caught because he thinks he has more to lose?

They need routine and positive safe boundries. They want to see you as their strong leader and someone that's worthwhile and valuable to be with. Believe me, my mare was a nightmare with handeling and there are still people on my yard that would never offer to handle her, even though she's a lamb and not the least bit rude anymore, her reputation is enough.

She was crying out for a leader and I have given her that. As an example and the last problem we have had to overcome, my 16h AES mare hates to load. I have had to insist that she does. She may not like it and will stamp her feet and swing her bum very annoyed with me, but I tell her wait and unless she defies me, she has to wait regardless. I did this on a loose long line with the ramp down and she could of gone anytime, indeed she did the first few times and I brought her straight back and did it again.

There are lots of ways to achieve this, the main for me was to use NH. How you choose though depends on the horse and the signals she gives you.

I would never advocate cruelty and I hope you don't think that I would.

 

[ISHmad]

Have his teeth been checked recently? Just a thought. A mare we know became difficult to catch but would allow owner to handle her loose in the field and do anything with her. Turned out she had a tooth abcess and was panicking the headcollar would hurt her.

 

[horses4eva1998]

Have you tried putting the noseband round the edge of a scoop with food in it? Then he has already put the noseband on himself, when he goes to eat the food!!!!

 

[Dry Rot]

Have you tried putting the noseband round the edge of a scoop with food in it? Then he has already put the noseband on himself, when he goes to eat the food!!!!

A sensible suggestion. Starting like that, then offering tid-bits but only if taken through the nose band, then gradually demanding a little more every day, had one of my youngsters thrusting his head into the head collar when it was offered as he knew he'd get a slice of carrot!

I feel bound to add that there is some very flawed psychology on this thread!

 

[Rhee]

I have the same nightmare, but I am embarassed to say it's now at 12 months uncaught.
Been all thru snow & ice unrugged, wouldn't go in field shelter, when i thought I might find a frozen horse.

I have tried every non-aggressive tactic I can come up with.
This week I have given her a handfull of valerian root, waited 20 minutes then gone to her with a feed and headcollar.
For the first time I have been able to get the noseband of headcollar on & apply some pressure on her nose.
I'm still nowhere near getting it over her head but really feel I have made progress at last.

Someone earlier said something which ticked a box for me,... she is not allowed to eat out of the bucket, she has to put her nose through the nose band and take feed from my hand.

This is one 'scared of humans' horse, It brought tears to my eyes the first time I managed to hold it round her nose rather than her just stretching her muzzle through to reach my hand.
Many will probably think 12 months is ridiculous, actually I do, but I refuse to raise my voice or use any aggression as even a touch or raised hand has previously terrified her.

Good luck with whatever you try next.

 

[tazzle]

Rhee ..... keep at it

this wonderful pone of mine was once like that ...... scared of humans, I vowed I would never give her cause to be scared again ! I spent hours and hours in the field doing all sorts from just sitting reading to fixing the trailer.

Clicker Training started us off .. and we still use it !

 

[Rhee]

Tazzle..it was you!
....I have spent so long just trying to touch her with leadrope etc, I've even tried a large loop of a lasoo stood up in front of a bucket to put her head/nose through in the vain hope of getting it over her head.

You posted & invited the OP to PM you. Without looking back I can't remember exactly what you said- but it clicked and I decided the only way she gets bucket food is from my hand.
I've done titbits but she is so nervous, I finally decided there is no danger- at this stage- of her becoming a food mugger.

Also, she doesn't tolerate stroking very well, pats are much more successful,so maybe the 'feel' of the leadrope/headcollar is a problem for her.

So to all those with 'can't catch' problems-keep an open mind- keep calm- keep at it.
Where there's a will there's a way- I hope!!!!!