Horse throwing head down advice needed

[lala horse lala]

Need advice !! Before anyone comments pain related it is NOT pain related said horse throws head down in predictable moments where they want their own way.

Horse throws head so forcefully literally no rider we’ve had on can keep hold of the reins, we give horse smack when she does this as it’s dangerous for us to not have control but that isn’t getting us anywhere.

We are thinking of using side reins on her where they will cross over the withers to the other side in the hope this will stop her from throwing her head down, advice?

 

[Goldenstar]

How do you know it’s not pain related ?

 

[doodle]

Please don’t ride in side reins!

 

[lala horse lala]

How do you know it’s not pain related ?

she has had absolutely everything possible checked, also if you watched her you can tell exactly when she’s about to do it - eg she wants to follow another horse and i’m not letting her, or she doesn’t want to turn around or she doesn’t want to go down the spooky looking path etc etc, it’s her go to for getting out of things

 

[lala horse lala]

Please don’t ride in side reins!

what are your opinions on them? i haven’t ever ridden a horse in them before and really don’t want to but every time i look for advice i keep seeing people saying side reins

 

[doodle]

I would lunge in side reins (although generally lunge with nothing and he stretches down better without) but I have only ever seen riding in them resulting in injuries. Worst was a horse going up and flipping over Onto concrete as she couldn’t use her head and neck to balance herself.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would try training her then from the beginning .
or not put her in situations where it happens .

I have no idea why you think side reins will stop the horse putting her head down

 

[holeymoley]

If you can tell when it’s going to happen then you need to not let it happen by asking her something else. Keep asking her questions- bend her neck, ask for lateral, circle etc

 

[Mule]

Does she throw her head up or snatch the reins out of your hands by putting her head down?

 

[holeymoley]

Also side reins will just give her something to brace against, she’ll end up stronger.

 

[lala horse lala]

I would try training her then from the beginning .
or not put her in situations where it happens .

I have no idea why you think side reins will stop the horse putting her head down

i have read something about using side reins but attaching them to the bit diagonally, over the withers, seen something that says this stops the horse throwing their head down and i wanted some opinions x

 

[lala horse lala]

Does she throw her head up or snatch the reins out of your hands by putting her head down?

she puts her head down to get the reins x

 

[lala horse lala]

If you can tell when it’s going to happen then you need to not let it happen by asking her something else. Keep asking her questions- bend her neck, ask for lateral, circle etc

definitely ! this works for us but sometimes there are situations ( for example if she’s trying to follow someone) she seems blind to what we ask of her. she has improved lots and lots in the time we’ve had her but obviously just looking for other peoples opinions, thanks also x

 

[Goldenstar]

she puts her head down to get the reins x

side reins won’t help then

 

[Mule]

I have found if you use your legs to send them forward as they snatch the reins it works much better than trying to pull the reins back from them. They are so strong that it's impossible to out pull them. They seem to naturally raise their head again when you use your legs. Maybe grass reins might also work.

 

[Equi]

what happens after she gets the reins? Does she then just go on her merry way in a calm fashion or does she bog off?

 

[Red-1]

There isn't enough information to advise correctly, my first question would be, is she trained to hold the bit softly and yield to the bit in other situations? If she (and I suspect this to be so) is never soft to the bit, but generally goes along quite sweetly, then at times of crisis the holes in the education would show.

If the horse was genuinely trained and soft, with an experienced rider, then I have come across the solution with a horse I rode that had been a hireling. It was trained, most of the time was great, but on occasion would yaw forward to overtake other horses. I used a Cheltenham gag, with 2 reins, the bottom rein remaining loose. The horse thought he was in a snaffle, until he did his party piece, at which time I used the bottom rein to sharply raise his head.

2 weeks of cantering out and about with others pretty much cured that little trick!

If it was not a trained horse, with an experienced rider though, this option would be cruel as the bit is a very powerful one and if the horse doesn't know how to yield to pressure to remove it, then it would be an abomination.

I would get a trainer in to help. They may also have ideas about pain. In my horse's case it was remembered pain from his hireling days. A trainer could assess your horse's understanding of how to yield to pressure to remove it.

ETA, he also had a standing martingale, so when he got a surprise, I didn't gat an equal and opposite surprise

What I liked about it was that, when he was going well he had a plain snaffle and no martingale, as far as he was concerned.

 

[maya2008]

Grass reins, like are used on ponies? You can get more than one type...

 

[blitznbobs]

what happens after it’s grabbed the reins? If it just grabs them and that’s that I’d be tempted to let them loose in that situation and send forward from my leg and seat... if it bogs off afterwards then I’d just hold onto one rein with both hands in those situations and spin it in a circle

 

[Flicker]

She’s evading you, either as a pain or fear response. You won’t fix it by physically restricting her movement - she will either evade another way, escalate the behaviour or injure herself or someone. Also, it’s not a particularly sensitive way of dealing with the issue.
Get a qualified trainer to help understand what she is not happy with and go from there.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

She’s evading you, either as a pain or fear response. You won’t fix it by physically restricting her movement - she will either evade another way, escalate the behaviour or injure herself or someone. Also, it’s not a particularly sensitive way of dealing with the issue.
Get a qualified trainer to help understand what she is not happy with and go from there.

It isn't always easy for owners/riders to understand how horses' brains work but when they are in pain any stress makes the pain worse, so they try to avoid stressful situations, which if the pain hasn't been spotted already by the owner can be the first symptom that they recognise.
I would have a vet check this horse.

 

[lala horse lala]

hey an update for anyone who experienced something similar with their horse (read till end) -

we had our instructor take her out hacking alone for us after this was posted, as going hacking alone was something that always sparked this behaviour. to get her own way she’d throw her head down grab the reins and just head on her way back to the yard! we never used side reins or any ‘gadgets’ on her, this was a recommendation i’d found online which i posted about but we never tried it. having an experienced rider (my instructor) seemed to make all the difference for her, she still pulled out her party tricks but they were handled better than i ever did. i wasn’t as confident and my mare could definitely pick up on this! my instructor rode her out on her own three days in a row, and after this we never had a problem with her throwing her head down again, or if she did it was extremely half hearted and more of a stretch than a ‘drag’ which i could easily correct myself.

our instructor wasn’t harsh with her at all, she took a schooling whip and between giving her a tap with it, doing lots of circles, and lots of verbal encouragement (she really responded to voice commands) she didn’t have much of a problem. patience was key though!! i’m by no means an expert but from experience maybe practise lunging your horse and getting them responsive to your voice which will come in handy under saddle? just a suggestion if you haven’t already tried as i could’ve definitely used this advice -

she got over these problems somewhere in october 2020.

may this year (2021) she passed away.

within a few hours of seeming lethargic and heavy breathing she deteriorated so rapidly she had to be put down. we called a vet out as soon as we noted anything unusual as a precaution, obviously NEVER expecting that day to end in that way.

she was only 7 and her death was put down to liver failure which she never showed symptoms of, literally the days prior we were hacking out with no problems whatsoever, she was the best she’s ever felt!

this could be linked or not but i found this thread and wanted to post for anyone in a similar situation - we were obviously absolutely devastated when she passed, and if these were early warning signs i’d want to let you know! this could well not be linked but you obviously go over absolutely everything searching for answers

 

[Red-1]

I am sorry for the loss of your horse, but glad that you got the snatching issue sorted and had fun times before she went.

 

[Flicker]

Thanks so much for the update and I am so sorry you lost her. You sound like a lovely, caring and thoughtful owner and she was lucky to have you to help her come to terms with her issues.