Horse to person ratio in a big/event yard..

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MissDeMeena

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Hey guys, i'll do a post to let you know how it's all going in a bit.. for for now, i'd love your thoughts on this..

For a comp. yard, what do you think is a good horse to person ratio..
With high standards of care..
day in the life of one horse, feed, muck out, ride, turn out, bring in, groom/mane/tail pulling, any other treatments, rug up, skip out, feed.
 
if groom is doing the riding as well as high standard of care, i don't think anymore than 3 or 4 horses per person.. i chose 4.
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all 3 olympic standard event yards i worked on, we had 5 or 6 horses each to look after and around 4 to ride.
obviously boss would school/jump around 8-10 horses a day which is what took our riding down below how many we cared for.
 

i find 6 a 'happy' number - its do-able and doesnt make you feel completely flat out but keeps you busy. more than that and my time gets a bit compromised which i dont like.
 
obviously if you're not riding them all, then the mumber you look after can go up..
So without wishing to state who did what to each horse.. i ment the total number of horses in a yard, to the total number of people working on that yard.. by people, i mean everyone, from boss/rider to groom/WPs.
 
We generally have about 17 in and 2 full time members of staff plus wheelbarrow pushers a few times a week to relieve some of the heavy jobs.
The staff will only exercise 3 or 4 a day. This is plenty!
 
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i find 6 a 'happy' number - its do-able and doesnt make you feel completely flat out but keeps you busy. more than that and my time gets a bit compromised which i dont like.

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What did you have to do to those 6?
See, i think 6, to do everything to, from soup to nuts, to a high standard, is too much..
 
half the week -
1 person - 12 horses, boss rode half, i rode about 6.

other half the week 2 people on the yard - riding about 4 each, boss going the other 4.
 
Based on a showing yard (I know, I know, but standards of TO are higher and, though you may not wish to believe it, fittening work had to be done
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): 6 horses to 1 groom, producer and headboy did the majority of the schooling but grooms did hacking, lunging and some schooling.

Care included all normal bits (inc 4 feeds a day), full strapping and masses of tack cleaning (stripped down after each use).
 
Well currently Im the only 'groom' on a livery yard of approx. 16 horses... but my 'duties' are the bare neccessities - such as muck out (only have to muck out 8 btw as the others are 'assisted DIY'!), turn out, bring in, change rugs, skip out, hay, feed etc. I do ride between 3 and 5 a day, two of which are my own. (these are, however, part-time hours)

When I worked for one pro I was riding approx 5 horses a day, one of which was my own, and was expected to care for these to the highest of standards and carry out all daily duties.

Other yards Ive worked on solely have been 8 - 10 horses but riding involved was minimal, maybe one or 2 a day, but again the standard of management of these horses had to be above excellent.
All yards have been Eventing biased yards.

To give an idea, when I was working for above pro in an Olympic year we had about 25 horses and there were 4 of us grooms.
 
For 60 horses, most showing/hunting, including regular care and tacking up for either rider or client . . .

10 grooms, 3 of whom usually rode 2/day

1 head groom, who rode 2-4/day

1 main rider (always went to comps but of course most of her main rides went too)
1 "second" rider
both of whom rode 8-10 a day

So 13 people for 60 horses . . . about 5 horses/person. But it was a factory and we had enough people to split jobs. I think the ratio has to be a bit lower with fewer horses.

With 30 horses we had 4 full time, me not doing any specific horses but some chores and most of the riding, one of the owners riding 2/day, and 3 of us splitting all the admin (was all full service and lessons so lots of phone calling etc) . . . so, again, 4/5 horses per person.
 
When I was a student on a 30 horse event and full livery yard there was the boss, 1 head girl, and me. it was mad, made myself stick it out for a year, by which point I was the longest serving member of staff my boss had ever had! Bearing in mind I was a student I was apparently the only person my boss could trust to leave when she went to events, so I never left the yard. Atleast 2 days a week I did the whole 30 horse yard by myself!!!! This included mucking out, exercise, grooming, skipping out, feeding, turnout and bring in, plus sorting out owners who had come to ride, farrier etc. On these days I would start at 6am, and often wasnt finished until 9pm, without any breaks. Still don't know how i did it, especially as I had 2 horses of my own at home!!!!
 
At work we have 1 person to 5 horses. But we have a feed man who feeds everything 3 times a day and 4 yard staff who turn out and we turn out when we can in the days and have an hour of turning out and brining in each day. We change rugs in the eve and i sometimes brush them. We have 100+ on the yard
 
Showing yard I worked on (!): 2 horses each. BUT everything had to be immaculate all the time. Boxes took 45 mins each (banks to 3ft, spirit level flat and beds approx 18" deep), all tack completely stripped down and cleaned every day and each horse got 1.5hrs grooming/strapping each day (more before HOYS etc.). Yard swept down 3-4x daily (acres of concrete) and washed down last thing. Grooms didn't school horses but did hack them occasionally. Immaculate but ridiculously time-consuming and inefficient
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Eventing/dealing yard: ratio of 1/5 approx. No specific horses each but everything had to be done. Tack wiped over every day (not stripped), shavings beds so quick mucking out, lots of exercising/schooling: generally rode 3-4 a day (would ride and lead when hacking). More emphasis on how horses went than how they looked. Tidy, but not ridiculously so, and fairly efficient.

Racing (NH/PTP) yard: 35 horses 3 full time staff (inc. trainer and wife), 2-3 part timers/work riders. No mucking out or feeding, 4-5 lots ridden each a day (some on day off/walker or racing), skipping out, trimming, clipping and a some breaking but finished for 2pm.

And in response to what you ACTUALLY asked - I think 4 horses each, give or take. Realistically it means more to do than this as most days it will be someone's day off, or some of the staff will have gone to an event.
 
This is interesting. There are 25 horses at my current yard (plus several foals / yearlings who live out 24/7), and only three people working there -- my trainer (who mostly rides, and occasionally helps feeding / giving hay), a man who mucks out in the morning (he is employed as a general helper, does the gardening for my trainer etc.), and the Bereiter who does absolutely everything else - lunging, riding whatever hasn't been ridden by my trainer, grooming, tacking up, clipping, giving hay, feeding, levelling the arenas at night...and he also helps mucking out in the mornings!

Then there is a part-time groom who comes about twice a week (on the Bereiter's day off, and when necessary - i.e. when there is too much to do; she will lunge some horses, feed, but she doesn't ride)

There aren't many liveries (me, another woman, and two local girls with their ponies) but we all help a bit, giving hay, sweeping the yard etc., and obviously we groom our own horses / clean our own tack.

I do think another member of staff wouldn't do any harm, though!
 
I'm thinking 'groom' was the wrong word to use above.. I'm sure it's do-able for one person to 'groom' for loads of horses in a day..

But i'm talking one person, do to EVERYTHING to those horses, and to a high standard..
I think 4 is perfect, 5 is do-able if you are efficent, but to do things to a very high standard, i think 6 is too many.
 
I used to ride 4 - 7 a day, never more than 7. To care for I think 6 is a good number, with 3 or 4 of those also being ridden. I don't think you can do a good enough job if you have more than that.
 
And to the person who can muck-out, ride, turn-out/bring-in, feed etc. 30 horses a day, either you're super-human, or more than likely, you're not quite doing them to the standards that i'd like
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OK, so high standard...

AM:

Feed
Full muck out
Light groom
Exercise
Groom off
Turn out
Skip out

PM
Bring in
Full groom (my full groom takes 15 mins tops, I have no idea how people can groom for an hour!)
Rugs
Feed

Am I missing anything?
 
To have 4/5 horses to 1 staff is an absolute luxury- I've never known a competition yard that can do it like that. It just does not happen all that often.

I worked in a yard where I was looking after 24 horses by myself for 18 months with the help of one other staff to do morning stables. I never had time to groom them , only do the mucking out/turn out/bring in and exercise and feed.

4/5 horses to 1 staff just does not happen, if it does it is an absolute rarity!

I agree tho- 4/5 horses to 1 person would be the ideal.
 
On top of Weezy's list, i'd add cleaning tack, numnahs, boots etc. Add in a hot cloth to the grooming. Sweep yard 2-3 times a day. Poo-pick as required. Put on/off walker and sweep walker.

For me I'd say 4-5 horses a day all in.
 
We have 17 in.
Mark and I, plus 2 staff.
So that is really on 4 ish each.
Any more, and at this time of year with fading daylight, neverending clipping, taking longer to clean up after turning out etc I dont think things cant be done properly, or atleast to our standards.
 
When I was working there were four members of staff (bearing in mind everyone has 1 day off a week so for 4 days there were only 3 people). During my time there the minimum number of horses we had in was I think 17, at times it was 35. I think that was way too high, the horses care was compromised and you couldn't keep on top of yard maintainence. Depends on management though - we had no turn out so it was very man hour intensive.
I think if you allow for five horses per person you can get everything done comfortably and do all the yard chores so your yard presentation is good cause that's your shop window.
 
When I work on SJ yard there would be 12-16 horses kept completely immaculate as well as the yard. That would be split between 2 grooms. The grooms would ride a couple a day each, the rest would be ridden by the rider, with the grooms handing over a tacked up horse and then taking it straight off them after.
So we did the entire yard (no odd job man or anything!) 6-8 horses each, but only rode 2.
 
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On top of Weezy's list, i'd add cleaning tack, numnahs, boots etc. Add in a hot cloth to the grooming. Sweep yard 2-3 times a day. Poo-pick as required. Put on/off walker and sweep walker.

For me I'd say 4-5 horses a day all in.

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Agree with this.. Weezy'z list plus your lot..

Thinking that each how 'could' be worked for 1hr a day, that's (for 6 horses) 6hrs riding alone (obviously some will take more, and some will take less, but it'll = out as that)..
So if you were to work a 12hr day, with 1hr off for lunch, that leaves you with 5hrs.. (at Weezy's 15min groom each) 1.5hrs for brushing, that then leaves you with 3.5hrs to muck-out 6, skip out 6, turn-out/bring-in 6, not to mention the fact that in the winter, there's clipping and other extra unthought of jobs that need doing...
 
This was how we did it with all 4 staff there

Arrive 2 people begin beds, one person goes round with hay, one with feeds then the joing mucking out. Yards had be be swept, muck heap forked up, water buckets scrubbed and refilled. Last few minutes someone would break off and tack up first horse for the boss.
One person would de-rug and tack up horses and have them out so Boss could just jump on from one to the next (5-8 horses a day). No grooming at all once they were worked everything got passed to a second person and were given a full bath every day then went on the walker. Other two people would have to lunge those thast weren't being ridden by Boss. Maybe ride one oursleves. (No hacking just in school). You'd be constantly swapping things off and on the walker.
Boss would leave and we'd skip them all out, give more hay and top up water and sweep round again. In the afternoon we had jobs (mane and tail pulling, clipping etc) lunged any remaining horses. This was the time clients came to view/have lessons so there was usually someone preping/showing a horse or doing fences. Load and unload the washing machine three or four times. Also hay/shaving deliveries came once a month in the afternoon and needed unloading. Then we also had to muck out walker, fully muck out all the horses again, do feed hay water for the final time. . Somebody would get feeds up for following day. Oh and we'd clean all the tack and roll about a million pairs of bandages.

I'm knackered just typing that! We really never got breaks, you pushed for time to even go to the toilet. The problem is it is managable like that but half the time you're a person down with days off and that is a quiet day on the yard. If they go to an event you've got to get say 5-8 horses plaited also and they take at least one memeber of staff. And there is always someone needed to trot up for a vetting or whatever. The point I'm making is you actually very rarely end up with your full staff actually looking after the horses on a day to day basis.
 
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Full groom (my full groom takes 15 mins tops, I have no idea how people can groom for an hour!)


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Honestly? I thought I knew how to groom but I got a full grooming lesson on my first day
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.

OK
1. Rubber curry comb all over, circular strokes, massaging and lifting grease and loose hair (10 mins)
2. Flick all over with flicky brush (like a dandy brush but with extra long bristles) to flick off dust (10 mins)
3. Body brush (MUST be curry combed minimum of every 3 strokes) (20 mins)
4. Mane and tail with a baby's hairbrush - strand by strand (10mins)
5. Strap (anything from 5 to 45 mins depending on horse and effect required).
6. Body brush all over again (5mins)
7. Pick out and oil feet inside and out.
8. Hot cloth all over.

Rather excessive I thought, but believe me with the boss watching every day there was no way to cut corners (except when she was at a show
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) and by the end of the show season I had some very, very shiny horses and shoulders like the incredible hulk.
 
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