horse trying to rear while gettin teeth rasped.

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EJ87

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Just had the vet out today for routine flu jab and asked him to check her teeth while he was there as iv only had her 6 months and wasnt sure when they were last checked. so he gave them a rasping it seemed like a completely new experience to her and she wasnt keen tried to rear up a few times and was snorting away. just wondered how everyone elses horse behaved with the rasp is this normal or is my girl being quite the lil madam??
 
Well my first thought was it must be painful for her. Suppose it depends how sympathetic the vet was.
How old is she? Could it be first time? Maybe her first experience before you of rasping was a bad one.
I would have thought if she reared with the rasp in her mouth, it would have hit her teeth or hurt her mouth so not a good situation as her memories of the procedure will be of pain next time.
My boy is good, but he tolerates the sensation with a distinct look of surprise on his face:eek:, every time, and he's had his done annually for the 17 years I've had him.
 
Most are fine. I think that vets are not always as good as equine dentists, who do solely teeth in their training..

Beware if you do have one that doesn't like it. My husband's horse put me in hospital and I ended up having surgery and a year off my job due to a tantrum when he was having his teeth done. With him it was just a teenage tantrum - he'd been fine many times before. Now we sedate him for his teeth. Stress free for him and us..

With your mare I would try once more with a good local dentist, and if she is still rearing I would think of sedating.. With our gelding we get the vet to do his injections and sedate and book the dentist for the same time..
 
I'd arrange for her to be sedated next time. Vets are not necessarily the best people to deal with horses' teeth. An inexperienced one rasped our extremely well-behaved cob's tongue and caused it to bleed. Fortunately she didn't take offence and when the EDT came was still perfectly well-behaved.

ETA our EDT is also a qualified vet.
 
For nervous horses I can really recommend Kevin Hallet, he rarely needs to have them sedated unless its absolutely essential and does an excellent job. Mine was a rearer with other edt's and vets and behaved really well with him. He also covers the whole country.
 
If you're anywhere near Shane Kitching, I'd recommend him. Not only is he a great EDT, but he is very good with nervous horses. I had one that used to rear but he spent a couple of minutes working with her, understood where she was coming from and managed to get her to co operate without the stress. Simple and no sedation needed. Current horses love him.
 
As others are saying, an EDT is probably more experienced than a vet, and sedation might make everything easier for all concerned. I have an extremely difficult horse who tolerates his teeth being done, including power tools, without sedation - all hail the EDT concerned as he is a difficult begger at the best of times, and a stallion to boot.
 
I would suggest having the horse sedated next time so that the vet/ EDT can have a really good look. If she was misbehaving the vet may not have been able to do the best job of it today. I'm very lucky because two of the vets at my practice are also qualified EDTs (I didn't realize that this was quite uncommon!) so they can sedate if need be, and no need to have both vet and EDT present!
 
I have had one bad experiance with EDT and one awful one that left a horse maimed for the rest of its life .
Now I always use a vet that done the dentistry course and I always sedate.
I learnt that lesson a very very hard way.
 
If she has never had a gag fitted before (I hope the vet used one :eek: ) and teeth rapsed it can be unsettling. If she had a good experience and the vet was patient and kind to her and it ended on a good note, you may find she is ok next time.
 
My appy does that when having teethe done, it's actually the only thing that he objects to do vet just sedated him do he doesn't get stressed. My old mare I font eve need to hold her just opens her mouth like a hood girl:D
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I'd arrange for her to be sedated next time. Vets are not necessarily the best people to deal with horses' teeth. An inexperienced one rasped our extremely well-behaved cob's tongue and caused it to bleed. Fortunately she didn't take offence and when the EDT came was still perfectly well-behaved.

ETA our EDT is also a qualified vet.
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This, although sedation can cover up a pain reaction which could mean something gets missed. I'd try to get a qualified EDT who is a member of the relevant body (usually the ones who have long waiting lists :rolleyes:) and has the option of using power tools. Its surprising but I know of a well known EDT who swears blind that many horses tolerate power tools better than hand rasps.
 
Hollycatt said:
If she has never had a gag fitted before (I hope the vet used one :eek: ) and teeth rapsed it can be unsettling. If she had a good experience and the vet was patient and kind to her and it ended on a good note, you may find she is ok next time.
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Lots of vets, quite sensibly, won't use a gag unless they sedate. A horse waving its head around with a gag in can do a lot of damage to itself and the people around it.
 
As a trainee vet we are taught these days that the teeth cannot be properly examined and treated without a gag. This was not the case in the past. This is also what my EDT taught me. If the vet is there to do a job they should do it properly. A EDT/vet with some common sense takes their time and doesn't create a dangerous situation for the horse or handlers. Neither does a professional charge for a half done job and a mouth not properly examined.
 
Hollycatt said:
As a trainee vet we are taught these days that the teeth cannot be properly examined and treated without a gag. This was not the case in the past. This is also what my EDT taught me. If the vet is there to do a job they should do it properly. A EDT/vet with some common sense takes their time and doesn't create a dangerous situation for the horse or handlers. Neither does a professional charge for a half done job and a mouth not properly examined.
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I would agree. I did not say I was against the use of a gag at all. There are all sorts of cases where something has been missed in the back of the mouth because the vet/EDT could not see and work properly.

My only point was I can see the wisdom in the fact that some vets will not use a gag without sedation, especially with a horse they don't know and/or without someone very competent to hold it. Having seen someone get smacked on the head with the edge of the gag when the horse moved unexpectedly, I can sort of see the point! :)
 
Mine hates having his teeth done due to a previous owner 2 before me never having his teeth looked at - by the time another owner got him ahead of me he was 8 and could only eat grass, not hay as his mouth was so sore. So then poor chap had his first experience of teeth being done and needed a lot done (sedated). But he's still not happy with his annual checks now. The vet I use is very experienced with teeth and does a grand job of handling him and keeping him calm during it but we do get some small rears but she's only had to sedate once when he needed a bit of difficult work done. She's now got the option of power tools which we tried him with a few months ago and he seemed better, though still a bit scared. She really makes it as good an experience as she can for him each time.
 
TarrSteps said:
My only point was I can see the wisdom in the fact that some vets will not use a gag without sedation, especially with a horse they don't know and/or without someone very competent to hold it. Having seen someone get smacked on the head with the edge of the gag when the horse moved unexpectedly, I can sort of see the point! :)
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I know what you mean about being hit by unexpected solid things! The main thing is to use an EDT/vet who is experienced and whose judgement you trust :) Personally with my own horses for routine rasping I would not sedate, and would not be happy with a vet that required this. However all of mine are expected to let me do anything with them and that's not the same with every owner. I can see in the future with some rude, bardgy horses I may insist on sedation myself though I intend to stay on the dark side of small animal practice :p

With the youngsters, I believe part of their education is having experiences like having a gag in and for those to be positive experiences. My last EDT used to put the gag on my 3 year old just for a minute or two to let her have a think about it whenever he was out to do the older horses teeth. Like you I do also believe safety of handler and vet is paramount. I have always been lucky to have fab EDT's that have been sympathetic and taken their time.
 
Hollycatt said:
With the youngsters, I believe part of their education is having experiences like having a gag in and for those to be positive experiences. My last EDT used to put the gag on my 3 year old just for a minute or two to let her have a think about it whenever he was out to do the older horses teeth. Like you I do also believe safety of handler and vet is paramount. I have always been lucky to have fab EDT's that have been sympathetic and taken their time.
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And at the end of the day, this is really what keeps horses and people safe - taking the time and patience to train and prepare them well for all the potentially upsetting things life as a domestic horse can throw at them. :)
 
It's also extremly difficult to rasp the very back teeth to get the hooks off them my horses are all extremely compliant but without a gag you got very little hope of getting the back teeth hooks and sedation makes its much much easier to do them.
 
My horse all get light sedation for dental work. Our vets are equine specialists and take the greatest of care.

I think a panicking horse with a gag on must be one of the most dangerous scenarios imaginable and I also think for most horses it is kinder to sedate them; then they don't experience any fear or discomfort and the job can be done safely.
 
My horse has had his done since a baby and then suddenly a few years ago decided he didn't want them done any more, we had to sedate him and found he had a cracked wolf tooth hence the pain. I thought he'd be ok on the next check up but he was the same, rearing and pulling back. So he's had to be sedated ever since just to have a basic check or rasp. Maybe your horse has had a bad experience or is in pain, it's best to sedate so the vet can have a good look.
 
While safety is paramount and agree that sedation should be used when the handler or dentist is at risk. However, I do not agree that sedation should be used routinely. Part of a horse's training is to get them to co operate with routine procedures like dentistry, farriery, vaccinations and clipping.

Sedating does not prevent pain, but reduces the horse's ability to react appropriately. If you were having a filling and the dentist hit a nerve, you'd react. If you were sedated, you'd still feel the pain but be less able to respond. Wouldn't your memory of the incident be worse ?

Sedation is useful if the perceived threat is psychological, the problem comes if there is pain because the reaction is masked. Sometimes a sedated horse can suddenly come to, which puts people at risk because it's sudden and unexpected.

Give me a well trained EDT anyday who relies on his/her skills as a technican and horseman who can give the job the attention it deserves rather than a vet slotting it in on a mornings calls between vaccs, colics and laminitics.
 
I think what they don't like is having a gag on, plus the rasping. my old EDT used a gadget that he slipped into their bars, it meant they could not bite the rasp without the restriction of the full gag. However when my vet did their teeth he said the "gadget" had not allowed the EDT to get to the back teeth properly.

Personally I have my vet do the teeth, solely because he can sedate if necessary. I don't want to be smacked in the head by a horse who has had enough of wearing a gag.
 
Another vote for kevin hallett - very calming influence and he is a lovely guy. Also Sally kingsley, who is also a vet and can sedate if needed. I would always choose an EDT over a vet, much more specialised experience and qualifications.
 
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