Horse tunout at Olympia - no one likes an armchair critic.....

Why are the grooms getting the blame here OP? I'm with all other posters who are saying it's not down to them. Totally unfair and a little silly to believe a groom has any say in how the horses are turned out. They'll get told what to do and they either do it or get a new job. It is simply not their responsibility to decide how a horse is turned out, only to do what they can with the instructions they are given.

I personally didn't notice. I just sit back and enjoy. Not everything needs to be judged.
 
cptrayes said:
Personally I'm glad that the fashion for ripping hair out of horses manes and tails is dying off. Many of them find it very painful and are forced to ensure it for no more reason than Kate Moss wears sunglasses indoors.

What's wrong with a mane and tail as nature intended if it doesn't interfere with what the horse is being asked to do?
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Totally agree with this
I like a long tail if it is clean and not tangled
 
Ravenwood said:
I loved every single minute of the Freestyle dressage to music and watching Charlotte break the world record but all I could think was, at least her groom pulls the horse's tail!

Good Grief - I wanted to cut at least 6 inches off all those horse's tails and why doesn't anyone plait tails anymore? If you can't be bothered to plait at least pull the tail! Elberg's horses tail was plaited but what a mess!
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I'm a show rider so have a higher standard than most when it come to turnout, I didn't think anyone in the dressage (I was there both days, and was down in the warm up so got pretty close) was particularly bad?

And its pretty common I think for European dressage riders to leave the tails long and unpulled? That's their 'tradition', isn't it? And a plaited tail is not really correct for dressage (at least as far as I know from friends riding in Eurpoean stables)?

By all means be an armchair critic, but its probably better to know what you are talking about...
 
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I'm not an expert by any means (only do showing once a year because it's a local show!) but I was told by somebody who knows about these things that it is only correct to plait a tail if you are showing a broodmare. In all other cases you shouldn't, but people do because they think it looks smarter. I have to say I tend not to plait my pony's mane for jumping because I feel it probably isn't comfortable when they stretch over the jump, and I wouldn't plait for dressage either if wasn't for the fact that it's a subjective discipline and impressions tend to make a difference. How can you ask them to stretch over their back and neck and then give them the equivalent of a weave (which we are told in the numerous makeover/modelling shows on TV is horribly uncomfortable!)?
 
cptrayes said:
Personally I'm glad that the fashion for ripping hair out of horses manes and tails is dying off. Many of them find it very painful and are forced to ensure it for no more reason than Kate Moss wears sunglasses indoors.

What's wrong with a mane and tail as nature intended if it doesn't interfere with what the horse is being asked to do?
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This. They're working animals, not poodles (and I feel sorry for poodles).
 
cptrayes said:
Personally I'm glad that the fashion for ripping hair out of horses manes and tails is dying off. Many of them find it very painful and are forced to ensure it for no more reason than Kate Moss wears sunglasses indoors.

What's wrong with a mane and tail as nature intended if it doesn't interfere with what the horse is being asked to do?
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I agree with this - I never pull manes. If they need thinning there are enough products such as thinning combs and sissors to do that with.
I committed the ultimate crime to a native and chopped off my Dales youngsters tail - it was so thick - he endured mud dreadlocks last winter and he ended up pulling out tail so cut it has been for his comfort. I thought all the puissance horses were beautifully turned out plaits or not.
 
Tinselface said:
Pulling tails is a question of taste, not a question of laziness.
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Cortez said:
Long tails on dressage horses has been the fashion for as long as I can remember: bang tails are for hunters slopping through mud.
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Goldenstar said:
That's nothing to do with standards for dressage it's perfectly usual for dressage horses to be presented with natural tails.
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This, this and this!

It is not very usual for tails to be plaited or pulled in dressage any more, as being an extension of the spine so to speak, it should be free floaty and swingy, lacking tension. Long plush tails are very popular in dressage, so what was displayed at Olympia was perfectly corrected. I winced a little at the plaited one!
 
Cortez said:
This ^^^ totally. Fashion is just fashion and I'm sure the horses would prefer to be left in as natural a state as possible. Long tails on dressage horses has been the fashion for as long as I can remember: bang tails are for hunters slopping through mud.
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yes, and like CPTrayes post as well. I only have breeds that I don't have to trim/pull (natives and Iberians) as I can't be doing with it and dislike ripping out hair.

there's no way the grooms decide how a horse is turned out anyway, and not everything has to be presented as if it were in the show ring in the 1950s.
 
No way am I pulling my horses manes and tails and hurting them risk getting kicked, trim with trimmers, and my ISH has a long mane on left side as that is the way it naturally lays and I like her long mane, my horses don't do showing so why do what you don't like?
 
I noticed the flowing tails in the dressage, but thought they looked really beautiful and that it was a nice change to see such a lovely tail! Gal's horse particularly had one to be proud of.

I've never bothered with any of my horses' tails or manes (or feathers!) to be honest. I quite like them as nature intended. My girl arrived with a shaved tail which I've let grow back, and I don't think it's a problem. I let my arabian grow feathers over winter, he looked like he had little flames coming from his fetlocks! Cute. I am very messy though.
 
I guess only when 'turn-out' affects the results riders are not going to hold is as highly important as condition & performance... i cant say i noticed... also the unplaited blocked off you see in SJ is kind of 'the norm'- i think the Whitakers played quite a role in that...

I have to say, absolutely non of the horses i have seen on the TV coverage looked 'badly' turned out, and i just enjoy the action. OP if turn out is your thing, stick to watching showing...
 
Hedwards said:
I have to say, absolutely non of the horses i have seen on the TV coverage looked 'badly' turned out, and i just enjoy the action.
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The thing is, I was at the dressage, which is what the OP is referring too, and they WEREN'T poorly turned out?

All very neatly plaited, groomed appropriately, good skin, clean tack and the riders were neat and tidy (I'd say the standard of dress on the riders was excellent, as you'd expect at this level) - as I said above, I was in the competitors seating, down in the warm up and in the stables too, so I got pretty close although obviously didn't see everyone, but I got an overall feel and I have no idea what on earth the OP is talking about. If tails are the problem, well, I guess that's your preference but I don't think natural tail in dressage = poorly turned out (I actually think it correct turn out for dressage, and I personally love a pulled tail on a show horse).
 
I also like the natural look. I personally can't understand why someone would spend ages plaiting a mane and tail when it adds nothing to the performance and pulling manes and tails just seems cruel to me!
 
cptrayes said:
Personally I'm glad that the fashion for ripping hair out of horses manes and tails is dying off. Many of them find it very painful and are forced to ensure it for no more reason than Kate Moss wears sunglasses indoors.

What's wrong with a mane and tail as nature intended if it doesn't interfere with what the horse is being asked to do?
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Completely agree. I hate pulled tails in particular, and haven't pulled a mane for 15 years. The fashion in dressage now is for un pulled tails that are left really long and huge fat plaits (around 7 of them). Manes are left long so that the plaits can be fat!
 
Its FASHION!! nothing to do with the groom. Years ago most riders at the big shows HOYS Olympia etc were English or Irish with a few foreigners coming over. As show jumping in England and Ireland originated from hunting - and hunting-bred Irish horses, their turnout was as a well-turned-out hunter should be. And the few foreign riders copied our traditions. But now, Germans, French and other continentals are in the majority, and the English and Irish are mostly riding continental-bred horses- so we are now turning our horses out like theirs.
The same goes for the ghastly short jackets, fancy boots, coloured breeches and bright hats........
 
Hackie said:
The thing is, I was at the dressage, which is what the OP is referring too, and they WEREN'T poorly turned out?

All very neatly plaited, groomed appropriately, good skin, clean tack and the riders were neat and tidy (I'd say the standard of dress on the riders was excellent, as you'd expect at this level) - as I said above, I was in the competitors seating, down in the warm up and in the stables too, so I got pretty close although obviously didn't see everyone, but I got an overall feel and I have no idea what on earth the OP is talking about. If tails are the problem, well, I guess that's your preference but I don't think natural tail in dressage = poorly turned out (I actually think it correct turn out for dressage, and I personally love a pulled tail on a show horse).
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So we agree? or am i getting confused?
 
My horses tails are always cut fairly short at the bottom - I hate long tails.

Manes are "done" short with a solo comb - again I hate long manes, I think they look messy and untidy, and after nearly having a bad accident when my hands got caught up in a hairy horses mane, if the horse is mine, it comes off.

As for pulling tails, it depends on the horse. If the horse has a real bog brush tail I will use a tail rake to smarten it up, if its not so bog-brushy, it will be left as it is.
 
Equinus said:
Speaking as an ex groom, I was told how the owners wanted the horse turned out (hunters, dressage, pointers, show) and I expect show jumpers are no different. If the rider/owner wants free tails and no plaits that's what they get, it's not up to the grooms. I have worked for both types, there was no choice, except a walk down the road!

How rude to blame the employee.
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^^This. The groom is just carrying out what they are told to do.
 
cptrayes said:
Personally I'm glad that the fashion for ripping hair out of horses manes and tails is dying off. Many of them find it very painful and are forced to ensure it for no more reason than Kate Moss wears sunglasses indoors.

What's wrong with a mane and tail as nature intended if it doesn't interfere with what the horse is being asked to do?
Click to expand...

I agree with this. I hate pulled tails, agree that they look as if the horse has rubbed them and love my horses flowing locks. I have no idea how I would ever plait my CB stallion's mane, it is so thick I have no idea how it could be thinned without causing him pain.

Monty Roberts was asked about mane pulling at a Gleneagles event, he replied "Next time you go to the hairdresser, tell him/her you don't want a cut, you want your hair pulled out by the roots."
 
Ex-event groom here, and as per various other posts - there is no way we had any say in how the horses were turned out. We just acted on instructions.

I don't pull manes any more, although Alf doesn't mind it. He'll let me do it loose in the stable/field. I do like them nice and short though, so I cut, then rough up the ends with vertical scissoring. He has a full tail now, and I cut it off square about 5 inches below his hocks. He has had it longer, but it looks better shorter due to his shape.
 
It's just fashion, taste and preference...

Long tails and fat plaits for dressage, scissor cut manes for showjumping, short trimmed tails for showing, millions of tiny plaits for eventing...
 
I have my boy's tail bang-cut as I prefer it (less tail to get covered in poop two seconds before going in the ring!), but I use a thinning knife on his mane and tail as he HATES it being pulled. I love the look of pulled tails, but his isn't 'properly' pulled and I'm not the best at remembering to maintain it, so it looks like a standard tail only shorter and neater at the top. His mane is far too long for a TB, and way too thick, so I thin it out two nights before competing and do the best I can...

Personally, I always felt a tail should be pulled or plaited for neatness, but I did do a lot of showing. However mine is in that halfway stage of being way too short to plait but too long to look like a neat pulled tail either...
 
Hackie said:
By all means be an armchair critic, but its probably better to know what you are talking about...
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I think you will find that Ravenwood DOES actually know what she is talking about, she was merely making a comment on her personal opinion. As were you ;)

Armchair critics in the horseworld (as in everywhere else) sit on EVERY seat at EVERY event, it is natural, none of us are immune to it, there will always be

"Why DON'T they?"
"Why DO they?"
"Oh Christ, look how high their hands are!"
"What the hell is in its' mouth " etc, etc, etc comments.

Nobody can do right for doing wrong.

Booboos, don't be such a bitch, compared to some of the pointless threads on here this one is nothing.

I do agree that grooms have a crappy deal all round and have to do what their masters tell them, regardless of what they would like to do, not to have to plait is probably a blessing, maybe for the horses too.
 
Wagtail said:
Completely agree. I hate pulled tails in particular, and haven't pulled a mane for 15 years. The fashion in dressage now is for un pulled tails that are left really long and huge fat plaits (around 7 of them). Manes are left long so that the plaits can be fat!
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I am so pleased to hear about fat plaits :)

I don't like pulled manes because I find once you've pulled them they stand up like a mohican unless you are constantly managing them or covering them.


My dressage boy with the kissing spines should be competing again soon (with an overtrack in trot, new in the last two days after eight weeks ridden rehab :) :) :) )
He has a very thick mane which he hates being pulled anyway, so I'm off to learn how to do seven huge plaits. Tips anyone????
 
Hedwards said:
also the unplaited blocked off you see in SJ is kind of 'the norm'- i think the Whitakers played quite a role in that...

QUOTE]

The Whittakers were merely re-inventing the wheel, they are good at that, look at their branded products !

Blocked manes have been around in North America for aeons, as have the long, long tails, banded manes and myriad plaits, very soon, if it hasn't already, the latest fad in plaited tails will be little cartwheel finishes ...

tail_braid5.jpg
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The Polo Bear said:
Are you joking? a privilege to 'work at such a high standard'. These grooms are payed peanuts, treated like **** and one in particular rider in the puissance, rings them in the middle of the night and expects them to clip a horse out there and then, That's no privilege. I could tell you so much more, as a close friend has just returned home from working for him.
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Who's that? Pm me if nec, sounds awful

I also don't like the look of pulled tails but didn't actually notice any that stuck out for not being pulled
 
Enfys said:
Hedwards said:
also the unplaited blocked off you see in SJ is kind of 'the norm'- i think the Whitakers played quite a role in that...

QUOTE]

The Whittakers were merely re-inventing the wheel, they are good at that, look at their branded products !

Blocked manes have been around in North America for aeons, as have the long, long tails, banded manes and myriad plaits, very soon, if it hasn't already, the latest fad in plaited tails will be little cartwheel finishes ...

tail_braid5.jpg
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I guess i meant in the UK...
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