Horse very overweight - owner not listerning!!!

X

x_Sammie_x

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 December 2008
Messages
1,285
Visit site
Hi sorry to post again, but a bloke im seeing has a gorgeous 17,2 warmblood gelding BUT, he looks awful hes VERY overweight and just looks terrible, his teeth, vacc, shoes worming is all upto date but he just has no idea i tryed telling him so meny times to sort him out but he said the livery owner has told him he isnt feeding him enough!! now hes feeding him 1 scoop of mix and 1 scoop of chaff three times aday! he hardly ever rides him iv offerd to ride or lunge him but he doesnt want anyone getting involved but im just trying to help, i dont want to fall out with him but he needs help he told me a couple of weeks ago he was thinking of selling him for £5,000!!!! I DONT THINK SO in the state hes in he will be lucky to give him away what can i do to make him listern obviously the yard owner aint helping by saying hes fine because hes NOT! help please? x
 
You will have to get tougher! Try showing him some condition scoring cards and explaining the damage that can be done if the horse is overweight. Tell him if the horse gets laminitis it will cost him a fortune in vets bills to sort out, not forgetting the excrutiating pain the poor horse will suffer. Stick to your views, this is a welfare issue as much as a horse that is underweight and not fed enough.
The YO is definately not helping. Once youve told your friend then maybe start on the YO...
Good luck!
 
the thing is we dont keep our horses at the same yard so i dont get too see his horse very much when i do he still looks awful, i have tryed telling him so meny times but he only seems to listern to his YO and not me as shes "more experianced then me" and think she knows what shes doing!!! obviously she cant be that great! alfie is in fantastic condition so sometimes i text him in the mornings to put alfie out (so he has to change rugs and see how his shape is compared to his horse) why hasnt he clicked that his horse looks so bad? i just want to go down there and ride him and sort his feeding out and get him fit and looking fantastic again but he thinks im interferring (sorry about the spellings) i will keep trying my best to tell him and keep on at him about riding him, hes a lovely horse just a big gentle giant so id get on so well with him, i forgot to mention he has a scoop of suga beet aswell in each feed..
it really annoys me and makes me angry that just because im not all that experianced he wont listern
 
[ QUOTE ]
If you've already tried helping then there is not much else you can do.
Its none of your business I'm afraid ....

[/ QUOTE ]

If i saw a horse that was in a state, be it very overweight, underweight, lame or whatever i have to say i could not just leave it. Sometimes people need educating because they dont know any different. Unfortunately many dont listen, because they think they know it all anyway. Horses cant speak and sometimes they need others to step in and make it their business before serious damage is done.
 
[ QUOTE ]
his teeth, vacc, shoes worming is all upto date

[/ QUOTE ]

Its not neglected then is it ?
Its not Sammie's place to tell the owner what to do .
End of .
Sorry that is my opinion .


And yes sorry if I sound short . But I cannot abide people that make things their business when they don't know the ins and outs of everyone's situations .
 
I never said it is neglected. Love is not a substitution for knowledge. My view is that rather than walk away, which is an easier option, sometimes people have to step in for he good of the horse. This horse is being looked after but it could be looked after better.
 
I agree with ISHY.
And as xSammieX freely admits she is less experienced than the livery yard owner, it is possible she is mistaken.
My only advice would be for Sammie and her boyfriend to 'condition score' him together, using one of the charts available from places like the Blue Cross, WHF, etc, to see if he really is overweight. If Sammie uses an 'official' document, she is more likely to get it right, and her BF is more likely to accept the results.
S
grin.gif
 
i just want to see this horse looking great like he used to, hes always working so only see's him at around 6-7 at night to feed him and muck out YO puts out and feeds in the morning and afternoon.. iv asked him so meny times if he wants me to go down at 4, to muck out, lunge or ride and feed him but NOOOOO even if hes struggerling he will never ask me, BUT if he cant do it he asks this little knob that he works with to go and do it and he dont know the first thing about horses it really frustrates me!
 
no, i know im right hes got a awful coat, he looks like this horse but bigger with a huge fat neck and terrble coat tho should a warmblood look like that then?
 
Im not suggesting that sammie holds a gun to his head and starts screaming. Its also not a stranger, but a friend. Wading in to a strangers business is a different matter. Sammie feels the horse is very overweight and in a state and is asking for help. Hence my suggestion to try another tack and show a condition card and explain the damage that could be done. If that fails then there is probably no helping the friend but at least she has tried, with the horses best interests at heart and NOT as an interfering busybody, which is not what i am suggesting she does.
 
To be honest Sammie, maybe he just dosen't want you to do his horse? I don't mean that in a nasty way, just thats what hes obviously saying.
I agree with shils, why don't you and BF condition score him? As sometimes a horse may look 'fat' but when its a 17.2 warmblood, that is simply how they look.
 
ok i will do that then, i put that pic on to just show you what im trying to say im not a complete idiot i know an overweight horse when i see one, ohwell i will just leave him to it
 
17.2 warmbloods should look tall and possibly wide across the chest or long in the body but NOT FAT. laminitis is not something only ponies get, obese horses are also at risk.

"It costs significantly more, takes longer and is far more difficult to rehabilitate an obese horse than an emaciated one. An emaciated horse that comes into ILPH care, providing it has no underlying conditions, can be back to the correct weight within 3 months. Conversely, a horse which is obese simply through overfeeding rather than because of some underlying cause, will take in the region of 9 months to get to the correct weight. They are likely to suffer some long-term damage such as joint problems and, at the very least, their weight will always need monitoring.” (ILPH 2008)

FACT

I am doing a dissertation on this and obesity is a serious problem in the UK horse population. The ILPH again:

"For every call we used to get about laminitis in a year, we now get 300. We’re struggling to cope with the demand for our services"

"One of the many causes of laminitis is obesity. With obesity cases rising by 100 per cent in the last three years, it’s no surprise that laminitis cases have increased by 1000 per cent."

If it is realy that serious, (a BCS of over 4 in the 0-5 scoring system) then you can call the RSPCA they deliver the new 'improvement notices' that are meant for owners who are unknowingly and unintentionaly doing their animal damage, that might convince him.

Ok climbing off soapbox, Im sorry if I have offended anyone but an overweight horse is genuinely more at risk of illness/injury than an underweight one (by the same amount)
 
Why is it any of your business?
My horse looks massively under weight for his frame- it is because he is fit and has moved yards, it just happens.
I know he gets everything he needs and he eats very well, and I know my horse.
If some interferring busy body came and told me how to deal with my own horse I would tell them to talk a short walk off of a tall cliff.
 
Thank you i will see if i can get one of them credit scoring things and see if he will let me do it i could do it off the top of my head but prob get accused of "over reacting" so i will see what i can do like iv said he used to look fantastic now he looks a complete mess, he is stiff in his legs i think its could have something to do with this but we shall see. we have the same farrier and iv spoken to him about it he admits i AM right he is very overweight but he doesnt want to get involved and fall out with the owner what i completely understand.. im going to go now and get alfie in and go home have a nice bath, i will keep you updated on this.. bye x
 
Last year my horse got overweight because the YO was still putting haylage in the fields all spring. My horse started getting colic and the vet said that it may be caused by overeating and she needed to lose weight.
The YO wouldn't get rid of the haylage or move us to a smaller paddock so I put a grazing muzzle on her. It broke my heart but it worked, she was losing around 5kg a month.
But then another livery went off on one telling me how cruel it is to use a muzzle on her, how he's been involved with horses for 30years and thinks her weight is fine.

It seems when it comes to weight you can't please everyone!
 
Jeeeez, that must be one hell of a good doer for a warmblood, then. I know all horses are different but my 17.3hh warmblood is fed way more than that and is JUST right; in the next few weeks I will be adjusting his food as the new grass starts to come through.

I really think you should leave well alone. It is up to the yard owner to deal with. I am happy to take advice from people, but not if they're not that knowledgeable themselves.

In what way is this horse overweight? Is it cresty? Does it have an appley bum? Can you feel its ribs but not see them?

My boy has a belly on him at the moment but is far from overweight, and I know that because as his owner I monitor his weight in a number of ways, and condition score him from time to time.

So I agree with Ishy. If you have voiced your concerns once then that's enough. It is upto the yard owner. I would concentrate on your own horse and finding the confidence to ride him.
 
[ QUOTE ]
17.2 warmbloods should look tall and possibly wide across the chest or long in the body but NOT FAT. laminitis is not something only ponies get, obese horses are also at risk.

"It costs significantly more, takes longer and is far more difficult to rehabilitate an obese horse than an emaciated one. An emaciated horse that comes into ILPH care, providing it has no underlying conditions, can be back to the correct weight within 3 months. Conversely, a horse which is obese simply through overfeeding rather than because of some underlying cause, will take in the region of 9 months to get to the correct weight. They are likely to suffer some long-term damage such as joint problems and, at the very least, their weight will always need monitoring.” (ILPH 2008)

FACT

I am doing a dissertation on this and obesity is a serious problem in the UK horse population. The ILPH again:

"For every call we used to get about laminitis in a year, we now get 300. We’re struggling to cope with the demand for our services"

"One of the many causes of laminitis is obesity. With obesity cases rising by 100 per cent in the last three years, it’s no surprise that laminitis cases have increased by 1000 per cent."

If it is realy that serious, (a BCS of over 4 in the 0-5 scoring system) then you can call the RSPCA they deliver the new 'improvement notices' that are meant for owners who are unknowingly and unintentionaly doing their animal damage, that might convince him.

Ok climbing off soapbox, Im sorry if I have offended anyone but an overweight horse is genuinely more at risk of illness/injury than an underweight one (by the same amount)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't wish to offend you here, but you don't need a degree or to conduct a lengthy study for a dissertation, in order to know that obesity, in any animal, has detrimental effects on that animal's health. You also don't need to be doing a dissy on it to know that obesity is widespread among the horse population.

The question here is whether the horse is overweight and whether Sammie should approach the subject again.

My warmblood has a very narrow chest, very, very chunky legs and a very big body/belly. He is 17.3 and a 58" girth is probably a bit on the small side for him. He is not overweight.

Just because one warmblood is tall, thin, elegant and fine, it doesn't mean the next one will be.
 
I was not saying you did need a degree but unfortunately many people seem to be extremely dense about how overweight their horse actualy is and have no idea what they are feeding.

Its none of your business! how many people would say that if she was saying the horse was massively underweight? That was my point with the quotes, wether people intend to do harm or not they dont seem to see that obesity is more serious than being underweight. At least the RSPCA can take a look and confirm or refute the claim that the horse is obese with a trained eye to put fears to rest. None of my business is how neglect and abuse continue, even if it is not deliberate it is unacceptable.

I didnt say that warmbloods should be elegant and slim, I've met more solidly built ones but there is a difference between a heavy of bone broadly built horse and a fat one and fat looks very different.
 
Yeh, but people are questioning two things. Is the horse fat (based on condition score)? Is there any point in Sammie saying anymore? Maybe she should pass onto someone who is more knowledgeable and who the owner is likely to take notice of, as he clearly isn't taking any notice of her!

At the end of the day, unless she is prepared to report the owner for neglect, then actually, it really is non of her business. If someone thinks I'm neglecting my horse then I want them to report me; what I don't want is to be gossiped about and harrassed!
 
To explain another way maybe....
Say one of my friends owned a horse that was skin and bone and it wasnt being fed enough. Say that the yard owner was saying that it didnt need any food. Would i stand by and 'mind my own business'? No, i personally would try and educate my friend that the horse needs more appropriate care.
What if all the people that complained to the RSPCA about Jamie Grays horses had minded their own business?
Sometimes it is not about being a busybody but offering well meaning advice.
There are plenty of busybodys in the horse world and it is knowing the difference. I dont see Sammy as a busybody, she is someone who is trying to help a friends horse have better health.
 
I do agree with the 'no idea what they are feeding' comment, though. The amount of people who do not read labels properly is shocking. My YO keeps nagging me that my warmblood needs conditioning cubes. No, what he needs is correct work! He is the perfect weight and considering it is the end of winter, that's pretty fantastic I think! He gets Alfa A and Speedibeet plus a bit of veg oil and vits and mins and biotin.

The amount of people on my yard that feed cool mix because the YO has told them to... One lady has a cob and was told to feed her cool mix and hifi (by the yard owner). I was just discussing in passing that I had Lou on Alfa A, which had the same calorie value as cool mix but is my preference for obvious reasons, and she went off on a lecture at me because the YO had told her that horses need cool mix in winter, at a minimum! When did the time come that people couldn't make their own minds up, based on their experience and knowledge of their horse and of horse management?
 
[ QUOTE ]
To explain another way maybe....
Say one of my friends owned a horse that was skin and bone and it wasnt being fed enough. Say that the yard owner was saying that it didnt need any food. Would i stand by and 'mind my own business'? No, i personally would try and educate my friend that the horse needs more appropriate care.
What if all the people that complained to the RSPCA about Jamie Grays horses had minded their own business?
Sometimes it is not about being a busybody but offering well meaning advice.
There are plenty of busybodys in the horse world and it is knowing the difference. I dont see Sammy as a busybody, she is someone who is trying to help a friends horse have better health.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, if I'd already told my friend once that the horse needed feeding up, and had been ignored then yes I would mind my own business in the sense that I would not keep badgering them. I would simply report it. They clearly think their horse is OK and I don't, but they won't listen to me or anyone who agrees with me. If I am that convinced that the horse is very thin then I am going to report it.

Maybe we are all assuming here that the horse IS overweight? Maybe the YO is more knowledgeable and sees the horse as being an OK weight, and having told the horse's owner this, the horse's owner has taken that on-board; therefore, when Sammie comes along saying 'that horse is so fat', he's not likely to take as much notice (because of the YO). Maybe Sammie should chat to the YO.

I would define a busybody as someone who intrudes into someone else's business without being invited to. Sometimes it is good to be a busybody, for example where harm could come to an animal, but where polite nagging has failed and the person (say, Sammie) is convinced of her opinion, ACTION is necessary.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I was not saying you did need a degree but unfortunately many people seem to be extremely dense about how overweight their horse actualy is and have no idea what they are feeding.

Its none of your business! how many people would say that if she was saying the horse was massively underweight? That was my point with the quotes, wether people intend to do harm or not they dont seem to see that obesity is more serious than being underweight. At least the RSPCA can take a look and confirm or refute the claim that the horse is obese with a trained eye to put fears to rest. None of my business is how neglect and abuse continue, even if it is not deliberate it is unacceptable.

I didnt say that warmbloods should be elegant and slim, I've met more solidly built ones but there is a difference between a heavy of bone broadly built horse and a fat one and fat looks very different.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, Lillith, I have a degree too...in ES
wink.gif
and in fact have been a dissertation supervisor (yep, ES again), if that's what it takes to avoid being one of the 'dense people' in your eyes.
Really, it is none of the OPs business whether she thinks the horse is fat or thin...especially as the BF's YO (who is, according to Sammie more experienced and knowledgeable) thinks the horse is ok.
And tbh, suggesting the RSPCA know the difference between their olecranon process and their anus (note equine anatomical terms there for your benefit
tongue.gif
) is a somewhat unrealistic viewpoint, as all the RSPCA inspectors I have known were emphatically non-horsey in even the most basic sense.
At least refer the OP to somewhere like WHW or the Laminitis Trust instead!
grin.gif

S
grin.gif
 
You could always be a bit blunt to get him thinking about his horses weight. After the whole "that horse is ugly" saga the other month, you could just try 'your horse is fat, why dont you stop feeding it so much and start riding it more'.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You could always be a bit blunt to get him thinking about his horses weight. After the whole "that horse is ugly" saga the other month, you could just try 'your horse is fat, why dont you stop feeding it so much and start riding it more'.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm afraid that if someone said that to me, the last thing it would do is make me think about my horse's weight. I'd be thinking about how far I could kick you and whether you'd be able to find your way back. That's just the kind of busybody, spiteful nonsense that people do not need.

If someone is genuinely unsure about something and you want to help, then say something constructive. If you can't be bothered with constructive or don't have a clue yourself then either refer to someone who is knowledgeable or report the person. OR keep your beak out.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid that if someone said that to me, the last thing it would do is make me think about my horse's weight. I'd be thinking about how far I could kick you and whether you'd be able to find your way back. That's just the kind of busybody, spiteful nonsense that people do not need.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well yes I wouldnt say anything at all if the horse is looked after in otherways. But then again I wouldnt even be asking what people think I should do as it wouldnt be any of my business in the first place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top