Horse went up and over with me today

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Ranyhyn

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:( Feeling very lucky to be okay and still a little shell shocked.

Took Ed out at 7.30am this morning, slightly foggy so all lit up in my HI-viz and hi-viz on him. Walked him along the lanes and up onto the common, where we had a nice trot. Feeling fantastic in his new bit, actually enjoyed trotting and having a play about with getting him to go forward and come back to me within the trot.

Anyway got to the part we usually gallop on and he started getting lit up. Think bouncing, going side ways, jogging, neck like a welsh D at this point. So I'm trying to give him the rein and a wee pat and making him walk on nicely.

So we get to a nice area to school, adjacent to an uphill stretch we use to gallop. So we're schooling along in trot quite nicely. Then he spots a jogger through the fog about half a mile away. I let him look and then made him work on.

That's when he just went right up and back over. Thankfully I was thrown clear. This is totally, 100% unprecedented behaviour for this horse. Whom I have had for just over 2 years. His previous owner agreed we never thought he had that in him.

*Changes to his keep/diet etc - only one, a new NS universal bit. Its the 3rd time he's been ridden in it. He was exhibiting this kind of bouncy behaviour prior to this new bit however.

Dentist and back booked for next week to of course rule out pain first.

I am massively shocked. My mother suffered a horrific accident where my welshy went over ontop of her and broke her collar bone and ribs, when I was about 6 - she never rode again.

I'm at a huge HUGE loss now. I don't mind admitting I'm scared, it's only by luck I wasn't hurt.
 
How frightning, I'm not surprised your shaken up! Even more scary that it was so out of the blue.
Was he normal while being tacked up, groomed etc?
 
Eeeeek! Don't know what to suggest but thank god you're ok.

I have a horse who's 'thing,' is to rear vertically, but I've already made the decision that should he ever go over, *god forbid* simply from being a sod, then he'll be a field ornament from then on :eek: Harsh I know, but if he can't respect himself why would he respect me.

Sorry, I know thats probably not what you want to hear :( I'm so glad you are ok though
 
Ooh, glad you're OK Kitty. Ed will probably have scared himself too and he might be a bit sore.

I've no experience with the new bit, but you definitely ought to go back to a milder option, even if it makes him feel stronger in your hand. Also get his teeth checked if they've not been looked at recently.

Try and give him regular, quiet work for a while and see if he settles back down?

ETA, just read it again and see you're already getting teeth checked.
 
Firstly, good to know that you're in one piece physically if not mentally!

Second, spring's here. Up his time out if possible, cut out all hard feed, reduce amount of haylage.

Third, consider giving him a quick workout on the lunge before you get on board - it helps both to take out the fizz and also to give you confidence that he is listening to you. When you do get on board be very aware of tensing up. Really try to sit loose through your hips and keep a good position. I find that I tense, lean forward, hunch and my legs go back when I'm frightened. If you see that mental image and correct it you should be ok! Also consider singing, most horses like it no matter how out of tune you are and as it makes you keep breathing it helps to relax you.

Fourth, trouble happened when you got to where you "usually gallop". Why the change of habit? OK he shouldn't be an arse because you don't let him gallop but it is spring . . . so either have the gallop then when he's got it out of his system retrace your footsteps and make the point that when you say walk you mean it but in the nicest possible way or choose a different route, even do the usual one the other way round, so that he isn't anticipating.

I hope some of this may be of some use to you.

Finally, all horses occasionally do something out of character. There is no reason to suspect he's going to do this again even if you change nothing. Don't let yourself get too disheartened or frightened.
 
Am also not surprised you're so shocked!!

Were you able to look see if something on the ground sent him up? Rabbit hole, unusual litter, snake, etc?

Or I almost hope the back/teeth person finds something wrong with him so you have an explanation.
 
Yeah completely normal. Lately however, I have been noticing certain things, which just don't strike me as right. He's always been strong, I went round a cross country once and almost cried at the end. However now, the bouncing and the leaping is totally out of character for him.

I agree wholeheartedly Fleabite - however I can't be sure I wasn't the one who made him overbalance, I have however said, once more and he will be retired - I just wont stand for it, however much I love him. Part of me is worried even more than one chance, could be one chance too many...

However we'll rule out pain first and then see where we go from there. In a way I wish he'd hung round (and not high tailed it back to the yard) because I would have liked to get straight back on and ride him back...

Im in a shitty predicament as he really needs work now coming into spring because of his LGL...xx
 
Oh no i am so sorry to hear that very glad that you are ok hopefully it was just sheer excitement and he wont do it again.

My friends mare did this when a swan flew and landed very close to her on the beach my friend was also thrown clear and the mare has since never done this again i think she got a big fright. xx
 
Something that stands out to me in your post is "got to the part we usually gallop on".... could it have been the anticipation of the gallop and frustration at not having his fun where/when he was expecting it?
Hope you're ok, a horrible shock for you!:eek:
 
Firstly glad you are both ok, I've had this once and it was terrfying, even though I was in a sand school and had a soft landing.

If this was my boy I would put it down to the fact that you were schooling where you normally gallop, hes a bit fresh as its spring, and there was a scary jogger. It may well be out of character, but you do say he exhibits the bouncy joggy behaviour. Unless he did something to make youtake a hold diretcly before the rear I wouldn't imagine the bit is a problem.

Also, sacred = normal!
 
I would suggest looking at his diet. I doubt the new bit would have made any difference, it sounds to me like he has been very gently 'pushing the boundaries' with his new bouncy behaviour and has just got a little full of himself. I bet he got the shock of his life too. If you are worried or scared can you get someone more confident to take him back there a few times and reinforce some good behaviour. And most importantly don't always canter him up the same hill, I make sure even when working my horses that they go when they are told and they stop when they are asked. So sometimes we do just walk up the gallops!
 
Oh no that sounds terrible. I must say when something happens so quickly it is often difficult to get to the bottom of the cause. I once had the same happen with a horse i was schooling for a client as it spooked when i left the school and the owner swore it had never done it before and has never done it since and albeit a bit skittish to ride she had no apprent reason to react so extremely and rear as she did.

As you say it seems there was no immediate danger and no warning from him as to his actions. In the spur of the moment a rider could in theory unbalance the horse and 'pull' them over but you would probably know about it because you will have registered your attempts to cling on. Sometimes these things can just happen for no reason and the horse probably didn't intend to go over but sometimes they just pass the point of control, especially if it is caused by a sudden searing pain or something.

I think you have done the right thing by getting dentist and back person out as this would rule out anything physical wise. As for his future that is up to you but as you say his behaviour has changed slightly (and i dont think this would be down to a new bit) yso there may be a sourceable reason for it so that you can take action to prevent it again... i hope that this is the case for you anyway.
 
Oh hunny!

How bl00dy pants for you, and him :(

On immediate reading, I note that there is reference to 'where you usually gallop'. Could it be frustration on his part and the going over effectively a mistake on his part? A combination with Spring grass? A fitter horse?

Sorry, I'm a bit like you are at the moment, surprised.
 
I know exactly how scary it is. It may make you feel better to know that my horse done this with me once and once only. I was schooling her in a field behind the stables. She was probably 5 or 6 years old at the time. With no warning she went up and over backwards but luckily she missed me although I was winded. We never worked out why she did it and she never did it again with a rider on board over the next ten years I had her. Whilst on box rest she would rear if led on soft ground but never on concrete or roads.

As well as checking horse for possible causes I would check for possible injuries caused by going over backwards e.g. pelvis out of alignment.
 
He's not being fed anything, he has his hay mixed with straw at the mo to bring his weight down at the moment. I agree about not going in the same place - hence me trying to do something different on it.

Another thing I have got to do is go out with other people more, I have had company in like, I dunno 2 in the last 8 months :(
 
Very scary - thank goodness you were OK

TBH I think you should try to put it behind you (easier said than done I know). I'm in North Scotland and our horses are now ignoring the haylage completely so spring grass must be really coming through. Mine had a mega nap on Sunday and I had to get off him cos he was on 2 legs not 4 and trust me this is way way out of character. Friends have made similar comments. I would really cut him down food wise and also try to vary your routines as always cantering/galloping in same place isn't great practice.

Psychologically just remember that he has been great for 2 years and that this is hopefully just a one off - high spirits gone wrong.
 
yikes, how awful. Glad you are ok and horse too.

Do you think it was the fog that made him ultra spooky or did he just boil over? Could he have reared and lost his footing and gone over or did he just flip with no regard for personal safety?

My big horse so very nearly went over due to a thin plume smoke coming out of a muck heap once - I think he just saw it at an odd angle and went for the massive over reaction and losing his footing the great oaf (we had that awful moment when he was stepping back bolt upright trying to rebalance - luckily he did).

The only horse that has come right over with me (fabulous scar on my chin 32 years later!) was a biting problem rather than excitement and she just flipped her lid.

I'm sure you will be doing this anyway :) but go back over the events leading up to the rear to see if he might have been clocking up worries and then the jogger in the fog just tipped him over (excuse the pun :o). It happened to me the other day on a baby horse - he was doing well but I was riding him through quite a bit of anxiety. I think he was clocking up 'worry tickets' and when I asked for canter (in hindsight stupid place to ask), he spotted a reflecting puddle on another path, remembered all his worry tickets, called them all in at once, went into a sort of blind panic and clattered off through the trees. Completely out of character but in hindsight I should have paid more heed to the worrying moments he had just been through.

Horsey may have given himself enough of a fright never to leave the ground again. Let's hope so :)
 
Baggybreeches said:
I would suggest looking at his diet. I doubt the new bit would have made any difference, it sounds to me like he has been very gently 'pushing the boundaries' with his new bouncy behaviour and has just got a little full of himself. I bet he got the shock of his life too. If you are worried or scared can you get someone more confident to take him back there a few times and reinforce some good behaviour. And most importantly don't always canter him up the same hill, I make sure even when working my horses that they go when they are told and they stop when they are asked. So sometimes we do just walk up the gallops!
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Ditto this.

What feed is he on? Some feeds are cumulative in their effect - which we find out with speedibeet and Grey Mare! After three weeks of getting worse and worse she was a nightmare. Off the speedibeet for two weeks and she wnet back to normal.
 
Take a look at this video on HorseHero http://www.horsehero.com/58251

Comment next to video is interesting: "Dee Dee rears when put under pressure. Australian natural horseman Jason Webb sets about simulating Dee Dee's pressure threshold to try to re-create the behaviour and teach him a way out. Jason says "rearing is a horse and rider relationship issue and usually comes from heavy hands, or nervousness. The horse then becomes disrespectful and takes over." When Dee Dee eventually reacts, Jason sends him forwards into a figure of eight. "Bend is vital for controlling the problem" says Jason, who also explains what to do when a horse gets into a state of 'shut-down'. Vital tips for a range of behavioural issues!"

I would therefore take from this that it could very well be the stronger bit - he had no way out but up. Try working on him going forward into a very soft hand. Horse Hero has some wonderful vids and it is only £17 a year I believe so hardly breaks the bank.
 
One of ours has done this! However he is a very light on his feet in general, and rearing and striking with his front feet is his reaction to anything he even mildly dislikes, and it is very much a behaviour designed to intimidate his rider/handler. (he reared vertically the first time I sat on him, before I even put my feet in the stirrups!! :o) In this instance he spooked at something in the distance, was bouncing a bit and chucking his head up, was asked to go forwards, and reared straight up, took a step back in an attempt to spin round, slipped and went over backwards. Luckily both he and rider were uninjured! If it's any consolation, he hasn't reared properly since, think he scared himself! :p

With him, he wouldn't rear randomly, there was always a clear reason, and he always did a lot of bouncing on his back feet and then reared if any pressure was put on him. Your boy sounds like it was out of the blue, and very out of character for him. Did he throw himself over backwards, or was it more that he reared and lost his balance? Do you think it was a fear or resistance response? Did you put pressure on his mouth when he reared, and was there any build up (mini rears) or was it straight up and over? Do you think that the bit could have pinched his mouth, or the girth his skin, or was he possibly stung by an insect? What was his behaviour like when he was back on his feet?

It is very scary, but with our one, the only way to deal with it is to sit calmly and ignore him, and he has improved a lot.
 
RebelRebel said:
Horsey may have given himself enough of a fright never to leave the ground again. Let's hope so :)
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Yes - ditto this - happened to me 20years ago when going xc. Horse stood up and I remember looking up and seeing his white woof boots (was the 80's) towering above me - wasn't even a ditch just an unflagged rut. He never went up any higher than 6 inches after that and he had always had a rear in him before.
 
He didn't throw himself and judging by his reaction while on the floor - he may well have shocked himself (ie I pulled him or he slipped) I couldn't tell you wether at that point I did have a hold on his mouth or not, it was all very quick, no mini rears or suggestion he was going to do it.

However heard from Duckling, who rides him on the weekends and he was very similar with he when she took him to the beach Sunday, which in a bizarre way makes me feel better as she is a better rider than me so I don't *think* its anything I am doing particularly.

When he got back up (slowly as I say he looked a bit shocked or winded) he then proceeded to gallop up the incline that he wanted to gallop up.

Stood on the top and looked at me.

And then ran away. :p
 
Oh dear, how scary for you! Glad you are both ok and you've had some good advice given here.

As it is 100% out of character, I wonder if it could be the new bit combined with the spring grass which has been making him bouncy? If nothing else has changed that's where I'd be looking. If you dealt with his bouncing in the same way that you have done before, the only difference today (barring snakes or imaginary horse eating monsters) would be the action of the new bit? Especially if you were trying to keep him in check in a place he knows he usually gallops? What did you have in his mouth before?

Can you lunge him in the meantime to keep him trim until you've had him checked over and before you ride him in future just til he is past this silliness? Oh and when you do take him out, lots of trotting to get the sting out his tail and walking up the gallop track, at least until he's forgotten all about galloping that day. You can always ask him to go when you get a bit further along, but only if he's behaving. If go out with someone else, make sure they will let you set the pace and not go charging past you.

Hope all turns out ok.
 
Kitsune said:
Stood on the top and looked at me.

And then ran away. :p
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Sorry but that made me laugh!
Ah OK, Duckling is a competent enough jockey, she needs to be very firm with him though go there and just do something completely different, instead of schooling in walk and trot, go and do some walk pirouettes and turn on the forehand etc.
I think it is a definite boundaries pushed too far scenario, a little 'corrective discipline' won't do any harm at all!
As Shils would say 'Why would anyone want a cob?' ;)
 
He's a flipping sport horse not a cob :p :p :p his father was a race horse!! Oh rue the day I bought an aberdeen angus horse :D heehee

WW - he was in a loose ring snaffle with lozenge, thats why this one came recommended as the mouth piece is the same - just with different pressue points - can totally think the poll pressure may have added to this. Might need to go back to Gail and have a chat about where we go next, once his teeth and back are done.

I think I may have to lunge him off - good idea, he likes lunging.
 
Oh no, poor you!! It is scary when a horse goes over with you.

Would suggest steering clear of areas you tend to gallop in for schooling. Or quit galloping in the same spot all the time, he possibly anticipated going forward and got himself all worked up. Lunging before you ride him is probs a good idea, but sounds like you have to travel to get to a schooling area in the first place; so might make him a little tired.

From the tone of your post he sounds like a sensible chap the rest of the time, and not one prone to being silly/naughty; esp from his shocked reaction!!

But we all know joggers and dog walkers and people with prams are super super scary....:)
 
Oh yeah he's my baby. I haven't come off him in all the time I have had him and that isn't because I'm a good rider - it's because he looks after me! He's never done this bouncing leaping beahviour before, so I am hoping dentist or back says something (as someone mentioned above) as that would give me something to blame it on.

In fact when I first had him, his old owner even put a clause in the sale - saying he never buck/rear or bolt and if he did she'd have him back! Not that that would be an option now (zee hoss izz mine!) but, that shows the wealth of belief she had in him.
 
How scary for you. My horse reared up and over on me last November, and squashed me on the frozen tarmac. Thankfully I walked away, but he hurt his pelvis and has only just come back into work 4 months later.

Like you, this was totally out of character for him, and we were just starting out on a routine hack. But what really caught my eye in your post was that he too was wearing a new bit - an NS Universal. Hmmmm, coincidence or not?!

Funnily enough I've kept the bit on (as am a fan of them) and he is now working very happily in it, and producing better flatwork than he ever did before. But I do wonder if the initial 'different' action was enough to spark the rear? I have mine with the leather curb on, so gives a poll AND curb action, which was quite different to his original snaffle.

Anyway, hope you feel better, and maybe take the curb off, and put the rein on the higher (milder) setting for now.
 
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