Horse whispers and lies

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livingsky

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Sorry if this has been posted before haven’t seen it mentioned.

But just wondering if anyone has read it online and if so what was your thoughts afterwards. I was a huge fan of Monty Roberts but after reading this I really don’t know what to think! I know you shouldn’t believe everything you read but is it a case of family feuding and jealous of his success or is he really the fraud.

If the latter how could someone do that to their family???
I’ve looked into the whole natural horsemanship thing and come to the conclusion that it’s just a huge marketing gimmick; some methods are ok but not new.

This is just my opinion and will fully admit that I’m not always right!

(If you haven’t seen it before just google Horse whispers and lies and it will come straight up.)
 
Yes seen this I think horse and rider did a article on him a few years ago too and it wasnt very complemetry, he might not be all he makes himself out to be.. but he has got some skils and he has helped alot of people to understand horses better and work with them in a positive way, like pareli same thing ie getting people to understand how horses think and useing it to help people and horses, however there are better and more down to
earth horse trainers avalible so I try to avoid both of the above...
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I haven't read the article in question. Growing up Monty Roberts was my hero. I worshipped him bought all his books and videos and thought the world of him. I first met him when I was 18 at a book signing. I almost cried he was such an important figure in my life. But as my mum stood there telling him how I was such a fan and had all his books etc she also mentioned that I had a horse who wouldn't load and did he have any tips. He replied "buy my book, DVD and halter". I began to lose a bit of respect for him then.

Then a few years later I got the chance to take my difficult mare to a demo. She was near on impossible to ride and dangerous on the ground. Monty watched her in the morning and told me he couldn't work with her and perhaps she would make a good mum instead. That's right folks he selects the horses to 'help' in the demos from a group he sees I the morning.

The horse he helped to reback that day had been doing join up and work with one of his recommended associates for several months so was thoroughly well prepped.

I wrote to Monty later that week and asked some questions about this demo but never got an answer.

However I have a lot of respect for Kelly Marks. She came to me and offered to help my mare and stayed in contact for a long while afterwards. I attended several horse whispering courses and learnt a few things but to be honest a lot of the so called magic is commen sense patience and confidence.

What Monty stumbled upon in my opinion is a sure fire way to print cash. He is a showman through and through and I honestly believe he cares very little about horses welfare.
 
"Natural Horsemanship" is really a phrase for the "clever" salesman to teach us what we have "forgotton" in favour of the "quick fix".

We are so busy in our lives and technology has moved on so much since the domestication of the horse that some things have had to go. We have lost our (natural) ability to listen because we are all so busy and just "dont have time" to stop and listen

Sure there are those who are clearly very talented among us. But if you ask yourself what sets them apart from the rest of us "minions"
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it really is quite simple. They have an inner peace about them. They observe and listen to what the horse is trying to tell them. They have learnt, to mimic the horse language and to attempt to talk to them in a language the horse understands. Afterall that is all any of our animals are trying to do. (communicate their needs) They fit in with our world, should we not, out of respect for them, try to do the same?
 
I saw a so called perllii expert at a yard opening in Durham..... how funny was that little lot--- he had been working "his stallion" for most of the afternoon and it was being a sod ! - i was in the owners house and was watching from the lounge.... the horse was worked and worked and worked - he was even late for the demonstartion.

He loaded the horse onto the trailer- drove round the house and pulled up and immediatley apologies to the waiting crowd about being delayed due to traffice problems.... of course horse jumped off box and was brilliant.
 
Here we go again! Don't believe everything you read, Make up your own mind about things based on your own experiences and don't mock what you don't understand.
 
I too went to a demonstration, featuring Monty Roberts. He reminded of the character off The Simpsons, Troy Mclure 'You may remember me from such things as.....' It was just one big marketing game, all the answers you need are in my books, dvds etc...
 
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I haven't read the article in question. Growing up Monty Roberts was my hero. I worshipped him bought all his books and videos and thought the world of him. I first met him when I was 18 at a book signing. I almost cried he was such an important figure in my life. But as my mum stood there telling him how I was such a fan and had all his books etc she also mentioned that I had a horse who wouldn't load and did he have any tips. He replied "buy my book, DVD and halter". I began to lose a bit of respect for him then.

Then a few years later I got the chance to take my difficult mare to a demo. She was near on impossible to ride and dangerous on the ground. Monty watched her in the morning and told me he couldn't work with her and perhaps she would make a good mum instead. That's right folks he selects the horses to 'help' in the demos from a group he sees I the morning.




Yep. The same happened to a horse belonging to a friend of mine a few years ago now. She was told her horse couldn't be used in the demo because the horse was too frightened with crowds!!!!!!! ( there were no crowds at the picking session and the horse was no wilting wallflower)

Monty told her to send the horse to one of his oldest RA's
which see did for 3 months. At the end of that time she was allowed to go see said horse ridden in a small round pen in walk trot and canter. Fine, great but my friend could already ride that horse anywhere - it was the behaviour on the ground that was so challenging and guess what - still was.

So, it cost my friend thousands of pounds to end up with the horse she always had.........................................................

After this my friend was lent a level one parelli course set and started to work with those - that horse is a very different horse now. Still not easy, but certainly not mad.
 
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"Natural Horsemanship" is really a phrase for the "clever" salesman to teach us what we have "forgotton" in favour of the "quick fix".

We are so busy in our lives and technology has moved on so much since the domestication of the horse that some things have had to go. We have lost our (natural) ability to listen because we are all so busy and just "dont have time" to stop and listen

Sure there are those who are clearly very talented among us. But if you ask yourself what sets them apart from the rest of us "minions"
smile.gif
it really is quite simple. They have an inner peace about them. They observe and listen to what the horse is trying to tell them. They have learnt, to mimic the horse language and to attempt to talk to them in a language the horse understands. Afterall that is all any of our animals are trying to do. (communicate their needs) They fit in with our world, should we not, out of respect for them, try to do the same?

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Just sooooooooo true.
 
I have not read the article but I have read Monty's books and seen him in action. I use join up with my horses it works in most cases.

In France I have used a French horse whisperer who trained in USA with John Lyons there is no 'con' here he is brilliant.

Some pics of Eric with one of my Shagya Arabs. She was traumatised by her move from Hungary and did not settle. She jumped electric fence, threw me knocked me over and trampled me. She is the only horse to put me in hospital and I am now 60. I needed help. I loved her to bits and would never sell her.

O'Bajan and Eric 40 mins from begining to end he had never seen her before.

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At the end he said 'I want to see if she is relaxed enough to lie down.' Look how happy she is. Pics taken by a BHS instructor who has backed schooled and won BOB at HOYS with Native stallion. She was well impressed.
 
Off topic but if anyone wants a good book to read try 'the horseboy' its a true story about a trainer who takes his autistic son to see a healer in mongolia. Great story, theres a video aswell but I haven't seen that.
 
I watched that on TV recently lastchancer.

I have to say, MR is far less a showman and money-gatherer than P & L Parelli. Each has to be viewed and used according to your own views and preferences.
 
I have heard disappointing first hand info on another British horse trainer not quite as in the public eye as he used to be, initials the reverse of Monty.

I have to say I'm not surprised about any of this.
 
A little bit of everything and all of nothing is the method I use!!!

These days I am sceptical of everyone.
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A little bit of everything and all of nothing is the method I use!!!

These days I am sceptical of everyone.
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[/ QUOTE ]

Same method as me then, take and use what you can from everyone and anyone
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Rollin - I don't know about your mare, but if Eric asked me to relax and lie down I think I probably would
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You are not the first person to say that to me.
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He has quite a female fan club but its the horse that gets his undivided attention.
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He backed my stallion for me and I am soon sending him a mare to break. It gets them off to a good start.
 
Thanks for all the replies, I guess it is old news but in my defense I've in the back of beyond for nearly four years so things filter through slowly here. (Although I do have internet so no excuse really
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)

My post really was about how can someone be so awful to their family? Did they not think they would be found out or did they think it didn't matter by that time as the fortune would already of been made?

I just think it's disgusting someone could do that. If his parents were in fact very helpful and loving as this book say they were, then shouldn't he be made accountable for his slander and lies? Someone said to me once that none of his stuff is original and 'join up' was known long before he published it.

Or am I way behind again and his reputation has already been destroyed? I do like Kelly Marks though have seen her in action and I think she could be genuine, so something good came out of it.
 
To be fair, Monty does admit he's not doing anything "new" but you'd have to read the fine print to know it.
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He does know his stuff and I think he's a good horseman, at least underneath the hype. But he's mostly putting on a show now. The picking horses thing is pretty common and it's not exactly a secret - they often put out a call for potential horses ahead of time. And yes, he picks the horses that will "fit the mould" because that's what works best for the show. Again, not at all uncommon for trainers that do demos. Otherwise there is the danger you could end up with one horse that takes up all the allotted time.

What does bother me about all these guys, though, is they present this rather idealised version as "standard" so people at home, as it were, think that's what they should expect. They often SAY every horse is an individual etc etc and that people using their systems for the first time will need to allow more time and get supervision, but they know darn well that the people buying aren't hearing that bit, they're just hearing the promise of a quick fix. Also, while I agree riding talent is not essential for success with horses in the general way, the people that ride for him in his demos are young, highly experienced riders. An older person, new to horses cannot do the same sorts of things safely.

I have to say, I've met MR twice and been less than impressed, for similar reasons as stated above. But I try not to let my personal opinion of someone cloud my appraisal of what they know and what they have to say.

As far as the business about his family etc, well, families are funny. I'm sure if you asked anyone's family members to recount events you'd get some very different stories, it's just that most of us don't get the chance to recount it all in public and no one outside the family has a vested interest in any particular tale. I suspect the truth is somewhere in between.
 
I think that if my family wrote a story about me saying that I was lying in my books, and even in my claims about how I developed as a trainer, I'd sue them. Interestingly, Monty hasn't, he hasn't even tried.
People say it doesn't matter, but I think that if it is conclusively proved that Monty didn't go to the desert and study mustangs as a child - that's pretty disturbing really. What struck me about this book was that the facts his family quoted, such as rodeo records and school attendance records, are easily checked so at least some of what they say is patently the truth. He didn't even travel to shows in a rail car, I mean for goodness sake he might as well have written a novel.
 
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Rollin - I don't know about your mare, but if Eric asked me to relax and lie down I think I probably would
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ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

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LOL
 
A few years ago I had a mare that was just not right for me. A local very experienced lady took her on but couldn't get to grips with her.

I eventually sent her for remedial training with someone who had trained with MR in the States. That fact actually put me off but having talked to him I decided I liked his attitude and approach. He set my mare on the right road and she has gone on to a brilliant home and is doing well.

I didn't think much of MR and attended one of his demo's with friends, all four of us had seen enough by the interval but none of us said anything as we thought it would spoil it for the others!

I think as has been mentioned by previous posters, take what suits or makes sense to you from every type of training and keep an open mind.

I haven't read the book and have no intention of doing so.

Jane
 
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I have heard disappointing first hand info on another British horse trainer not quite as in the public eye as he used to be, initials the reverse of Monty.

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That's a shame. We had RM out to load my friend's impossible to load horse and he had him on the box in twenty minutes. He then taught us how to load him and now the impossible to load horse will always load. I can't always do it in twenty minutes like RM though
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I have watched RM on TV and picked up useful tips from him.

All my horses load and for that I thank Monty, Robert and Kelly from whom I have learned loads. ( I have 11 by the way of all ages and they won't load for everyone).
 
I think that some trainers get results, but don't fully understand why. Sometimes their interpretation of what is going on isn't correct according to behavioural science, but what they are doing still works. If that makes sense. Some even pedal their own version of equine behaviour or call themselves behaviourists.
There are some very interesting views to be read from people who are reputable behaviourists on what is actually happening during Join Up for example. And it has nothing to do with how mares behave in the herd.
 
I still firmly believe that ALL the widely known methods simply re-use age old ways of dealing with horses. I seem to remember reading that RM said that he took the best of MR's methods and added his own to come up with his own system. This is what they have all done, they are all clever showmen but nobody can deny they are good at what they do. I went off MR after seeing him at a demo, but I think Kelly is brilliant and far more talented, also more approachable and much more'human' if that makes sense. I saw RM many years ago when he was just starting out on his own and he was brilliant. I had an RA deal with a problem pony and cannot fault what she did, the problem (rearing on the ground) was dealt with and has never happened since. I use lots of different ways with my own, bits picked up over the years and stored away until needed. I have just read the internet book and have to say I came away with a sense of disappointment, I suppose I wanted to believe in the books and whether true or not it has certainly put doubts in my head.
 
Having read the Internet book, it seems that the overwhelming view is that Marvin was a kind man.

I really don't see why Monty has felt the need to paint his father in such a terrible and damning fashion, and I question his doing so. It doesn't enhance what he does with the horses in my mind and the revelations that many of the incidents he relates in the story didn't or couldn't have happened just adds to my distaste for the man - regardless of the positive things he appears to be doing with horses.

It's not sour grapes from his family - had it been a true survivor's story, I bet they'd have blessed the book and the man. It seems like their puzzled disappointment for the baffling inconsistencies and untruths to me. What a cowardly thing to do, too. He should have had those things out with his father, not aired dirty linen when the other side had no opportunity to defend themselves nor refute the charges.
 
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Having read the Internet book, it seems that the overwhelming view is that Marvin was a kind man.

I really don't see why Monty has felt the need to paint his father in such a terrible and damning fashion, and I question his doing so. It doesn't enhance what he does with the horses in my mind and the revelations that many of the incidents he relates in the story didn't or couldn't have happened just adds to my distaste for the man - regardless of the positive things he appears to be doing with horses.

It's not sour grapes from his family - had it been a true survivor's story, I bet they'd have blessed the book and the man. It seems like their puzzled disappointment for the baffling inconsistencies and untruths to me. What a cowardly thing to do, too. He should have had those things out with his father, not aired dirty linen when the other side had no opportunity to defend themselves nor refute the charges.

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Exactly!! This isn't suppose to be about natural horsemanship, but Monty Roberts himself! Horse Whispers and Lies (even if it was wrote badly) really paints a different story and if it is true then Monty Roberts really is a nasty piece of work and has absolutely no regard for anyone but himself. I wouldn't let him near one of my horses.

His parents sound like were genuine kind loving people and did so much for everyone. They really don't deserve this.
 
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