Horse with big trot.

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Mlini

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A young girl on my yard has asked me to help her with her riding. She has recently got a new horse, he is her first horse (previously on a 12.2). He is 16.2(ish) 5yr old Cob x TB, lovely horse but way too much for her at the moment. Now I could get on show her how to ride him, but I don't think that will help much. So need some advice as to what exercises I could get her doing. She is only 13 and I don't think she has had many riding lessons in her life.

She is a novice rider (basically can walk,trot, canter) and pretty nervous on this horse. She is quite happy to walk around on him in the school but can't ride his trot. She hasn't attempted canter, but I know that she wont be able to sit to it as she has a weak seat. He has quite a large trot in comparison to her pony, she struggles to rise at the right time, double bounces, and everything goes to pot... Then she gives up and gets off.

So what exercises could she be doing that will help this issue? I have never had this problem with my riding so am struggling to think of what to do about it :confused: Improving her position would probably help, heels rise up, upper body leans forwards and hands drop. She will not be confident doing any no stirrup work.

Oh, and I will be trying to persuade her dad to get a qualified riding instructor in to help. :D
 
Too much horse for a novice thirteen year old coming off a 12.2 I am afraid. I would forget exercises and either get a proper trainer who can assess the combination or sell it and get something more experienced, if anything goes wrong and it almost certainly will if she can't ride it ( and she cant if she can't ride it in trot or canter it) if you are providing instruction or supervision without insurance you put yourself in a potentially vulnerable situation.


Sorry if not what you want to hear but... Seen this scenario many times before. Why take a risk. Why even was it bought without e rider being able to canter? Would never buy something for my son he couldn't get on and go with safely.
 
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From having recently moved to a horse with a BIG trot I'd say leave her to find her balance with her leaning forward. It helps to prevent getting behind the movement which makes things ten times worse! She does need to be told to keep her weight down into her heels though. Another thing that helped me was, with a neck strap, rise for two, sit, rise for two, sit. When she's rising she needs to pull her tummy up to get her core muscles working.

btw she may well find the canter a whole lot easier than the trot!
 
I second that! Often the trot is far more difficult than the canter. I have a livery at present that has the biggest trot I have ever ridden. When I need a rest I just canter him, and he's like an armchair!
 
Tell her to get a qualified instructor to help her.

Is there one on your yard that could give her proper lessons?

Apoligies as I dont know what level your experience is at for helping her but an instructor would have insurance.
 
Elsielouise - I totally agree with you. Her non-horsey dad bought him for her (wanted a young one so it would last a few years, and wanted a big one that she wouldn't grow out of :eek:) I, and other liveries, have told them the horse is too much for her but he disagrees. I am currently trying to persuade them that she needs proper instruction, but in the meantime trying to give her some pointers :)

Not too sure about the insurance point, as I ride at the same time as her I would just be giving her some ideas, not actually teaching. She is the daughter of the YO and he is fine with us helping out.
 
Wagtail said:
I second that! Often the trot is far more difficult than the canter. I have a livery at present that has the biggest trot I have ever ridden. When I need a rest I just canter him, and he's like an armchair!
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So glad to hear it's not just me struggling to sit a mahoosive trot, my instructor says my new boy has the biggest trot she rides, any tips gratefully received, I have never ridden anything like this trot and feel like a novice again despite having 2 others I ride no problem. If more experienced riders struggle with a big trot how is this poor girl going to manage.
 
The horse I ride at the moment has a much bigger trot than others I have ridden, it's also quite elevated. I put my stirrups up a hole as I find that I can get my heels down more and jam my ass into the saddle for sitting trot, that way I don't bounce around in trot lol :D
 
lea840 said:
The horse I ride at the moment has a much bigger trot than others I have ridden, it's also quite elevated. I put my stirrups up a hole as I find that I can get my heels down more and jam my ass into the saddle for sitting trot, that way I don't bounce around in trot lol :D
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Is that the horse in your pic Lea840?
 
She must must must must must get some lessons! This could end very nastily otherwise.

Exercise wise, how is she in sitting trot? If that it easier for her, then stick with that for a while. If it isn't, make her do a little bit everytime she rides to improve her seat. Make sure she has either a neck strap or a martingale. Would the lunge make her feel safer? Then she could concentrate more on her balance and less on what he's doing. To be honest I think it's going to be practice makes perfect. If she does short bits of trot and then has a break she's less likely to bounce everywhere and she will gradually get there.

I'm trying to think of some specific exercises but I can't think of any right now. If I do I'll do another post later.
 
Rosie041390 said:
A young girl on my yard has asked me to help her with her riding. She has recently got a new horse, he is her first horse (previously on a 12.2). He is 16.2(ish) 5yr old Cob x TB, lovely horse but way too much for her at the moment. ...Oh, and I will be trying to persuade her dad to get a qualified riding instructor in to help. :D
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whoa that sounds like way too much horse for a 13 yo girl. What height / build is the girl?

A young horse and a novice rider are imo never a good combination and I doubt that at 13 the rider either has the skill or strenght needed to ride this horse safely

And I believe that is what this boils down to - Safety. Can you have a word with the father or YO? There is an option that the horse could go out on loan / swap whilst she grows into this horse so to speak.

Tricky situation but If it was my child I would not be happy with the this combination of young horse & novice. Whilst I realise your heart is in the right place do be careful with actively advising the girl in case somethings does go wrong...
 
Fiagai said:
whoa that sounds like way too much horse for a 13 yo girl. What height / build is the girl?

Can you have a word with the father or YO? There is an option that the horse could go out on loan / swap whilst she grows into this horse so to speak.
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Yes, he is way too much. I am 5ft7 ish and she is a couple of inches shorter than me, quite tall for her age. But she is very slim, weighs in at around 7.5st I believe.

I (and many others) have spoken to the father, he is the YO, he isn't horsey at all. He is adamant that the horse is staying and believes that he is well within her capabilities (which he is not). I was thinking about offering help riding him when she is not there, so that he has something to think about - he has gone from working properly 45min-1hr everyday in previous home to doing odd bits here and there mainly walking and some lungeing. So IMO is like a bomb waiting to explode. :eek:

Thanks for the tips guys, keep them coming. :D
 
is there anyone else on the yard who could ride him so that between you he gets a bit of something every day, then if one of you has a reasonably well behaved horse of around 14.2 this girl could ride sometimes in the school ot would give her an inbetweenie to get better balanced with the longer trot strides before she tries again on her own horse. Just make sure he is not getting more than a handful of hard food and that he has plenty of turnout so that he does not get fresh when he is ridden.
 
I'd agree with the others - sounds like a lot of horse for such a youngster but then I can't talk as I wasn't much older when I was riding a mare of the same size... she was somewhat older though!

I'd reccomend sticking her on the lunge, with sidereins on the horse. That way she just hs to concentrate on herself while lunger controls the speed and direction of the horse.... practice transitions and getting her to learn to slow her rising so that the horse slows down too, and speed it up so that the horse speeds up too...

She could do that off the lunge too but she will need some prompting!
 
I'd want to lunge her on him but not sure where that would leave you insurance wise. Assuming she's not too big I'd also get her riding the pony without stirrups on lunge, progressing to riding it bareback in canter around the arena. The more secure her seat is the better able to cope with his trot she'll be. Given her age I'd probably get her playing games eg tig, racing (in trot) round cones etc. If she's not focused on the trot she'll be less likely to be tense which will help her seat.
Like others have said a more suitable pony would help but from what you've said I realise that's not an option.
And definitely regular lessons.
 
Following on from my first post on this thread, don't any of you remember how horrendous it was getting your first horse with a mahoosive trot:) Sitting to my horse's trot was a surprise even to the pro who events him for me, this child is highly unlikely to be able to manage it, I could just sit to my boy's trot, but only when he was hardly trotting. :eek:

If the horse is temperamentally suited to it try getting her to stand for two and sit for one 'til she gets used to the balance, only in short bursts. I worked on walk halt walk transitions to get us both used to each other, then brought in trot walk trot with only, say, five strides of trot and then ten walk and then gradually increased the number of trot strides as I got used to the rise, wait, sit, wait, rise, wait, sit, wait which is how his trot feels. She can spend plenty of time getting used to him, riding circles and squares so there is a noticeable difference between them, playing serpentines and changes of bend, getting him to halt over poles, walk between poles as tramlines and corners, learning to ride accurate 20, 10 and 5m circles without getting as far as trot which she can bring in gradually.

When she's able to start sitting trot I found that introducing sitting for two then rising, then sitting for two and increasing the amount of sitting improved my ability whilst not upsetting what in my case is a competition horse who is NOT used to having an elderly sack of potatoes on his back - which is why I stated earlier "temperamentally suited". In my case whilst the horse is probably theoretically as unsuitable for me as this new horse is for the child he IS very tolerant, hopefully her horse is too.
 
lea840 said:
Yes thats the one... the fitter she has got, the bigger her trot has become. she is now powering through from behind lol :)
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She looks very similar to my boy in many ways..is she an ID? Don't say that about the fitter bit!! I can barely manage now let alone when it gets even bouncier!
To those who suggest no stirrups and cantering bareback, if the trot is anything like my boys the poor girl would be off the side before she got to canter, unless the horse does a very neat walk to canter transition which I doubt.
 
Agree with the suggestion of getting her on the lunge on him so she doesn't have to think about anything else other her own position - its incredibly hard to go from a horse with no bounce to mega bouncy - I am a perfectly capable rider however when challenged with a horse who is 17.2 and is like a walking bouncy castle you would have thought I had never sat on a horse in my life. A week of intensive lessons and I was used to his way of going and felt confident enough to jump him.
 
Lunge lessons, use a neck strap, balance strap on the saddle across the pommel and providing the saddle is suited to her and not just the horses size (as in big saddle and tiny small person lost in it!) then she learn, she'll have no choice in the matter. Important thing is she's not riding on the mouth for balance or socking the horse in the mouth if he shoots forward otherwise it will ruin his mouth and she'll come off backwards.

Keep the trot slow, let her concentrate on the paces with the comfort knowing someone is on the ground in control of the horse via the lunge line (providing the horse is very good and reliable on the lunge...otherwise your screwed), if this can be done then at least she is only have to cope one thing at at time which will help with her confidence, best thing is not to rush things though, let her practice walk and stop transitions until she learns to trust the horse and the horse also gets used to her.

Least she has people on the yard like yourself that are looking out for her and willing to help or step in if she's ever out of her depth, someone has to if her parents don't, you could be the person that actually stops her from getting injured! :)
 
Rosie041390 said:
Yes, he is way too much. I am 5ft7 ish and she is a couple of inches shorter than me, quite tall for her age. But she is very slim, weighs in at around 7.5st I believe.

I (and many others) have spoken to the father, he is the YO, he isn't horsey at all. He is adamant that the horse is staying and believes that he is well within her capabilities (which he is not). I was thinking about offering help riding him when she is not there, so that he has something to think about - he has gone from working properly 45min-1hr everyday in previous home to doing odd bits here and there mainly walking and some lungeing. So IMO is like a bomb waiting to explode. :eek:

Thanks for the tips guys, keep them coming. :D
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Yikes, sounds about right. I've seen similar situations before. Unfortunately usually ending in tears. I'm older and more cynical now, and I tend to stay out of the way if sensible advice is ignored - otherwise once you get involved, you run the risk of being blamed if the accident happens…

Anyway.. Regardless of the above: It sounds as though the girl might not have enough core strength to physically be able to ride this horse at the moment, so that is something she can work on every day when she’s not riding (It will make a huge difference if she can be bothered to do the exercises every day).

Riding a horse with a big trot requires a lot of core strength and a deep seat. She needs to ensure she’s always sitting up tall, and rise by pushing the belly button out to ensure she stays upright and to avoid tipping too far forwards, shoulders must stay supple, relaxed and back. She needs to be relaxed from the pelvis and be relaxed at the knee. (common mistakes are to grip with the knee, which only cause tension and will unbalance her). Heels down. A neck strap will prevent her from pulling on his mouth if she loses her balance.
I would suggest that before she canters she does a lot of work lengthening and shortening her stride in trot. Although she’ll probably find the canter easier to ride, I’d not encourage her to canter until she’s comfortable and fully in control of her trot.
I agree with the others about working her on the lunge if she is very unbalanced.
 
xxMozlarxx said:
She looks very similar to my boy in many ways..is she an ID? Don't say that about the fitter bit!! I can barely manage now let alone when it gets even bouncier!
To those who suggest no stirrups and cantering bareback, if the trot is anything like my boys the poor girl would be off the side before she got to canter, unless the horse does a very neat walk to canter transition which I doubt.
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Ha Ha Ha yes you will be in for a 'treat' the fitter he gets lol I must say since teaching her walk to canter I miss out a lot of trotting once she is warmed up ans she tends to do this huge powerful trot she is a mare on a mission lol

She belongs to my YO who doesn't have the time to ride her, so she has become my project over the last 6 months, you would believe its the same horse I started riding 6 months ago... there are some before and after pics in PG under the 'show me your cobs' thread. She is just an Irish cob, not sure what she has in her tho other than 'Rocket Fuel' lol
 
Even though he's big and young, he's not necessarily an unsuitable temperament. Some big horses are very quiet and tolerant. And sounds like she's stuck with him!

Firstly i'd ensure he stays unfit! And NO hard feed at all. The very last thing she needs is a fit horse full of energy!

Ditto the balance strap, and also making sure the saddle suits her. We've got a big bouncy ID who's saddle needed changed to make him remotely rideable/sittable :o

Lunging would be great if he's good, but mostly she just needs practise and encouragement. Reminders to keep her heels down and sit up, but most importantly, some STRUCTURE to her riding session. It's very easy to blob round the school once or twice then just give up if you're not entirely sure what you should be doing!
 
lea840 said:
Ha Ha Ha yes you will be in for a 'treat' the fitter he gets lol I must say since teaching her walk to canter I miss out a lot of trotting once she is warmed up ans she tends to do this huge powerful trot she is a mare on a mission lol

She belongs to my YO who doesn't have the time to ride her, so she has become my project over the last 6 months, you would believe its the same horse I started riding 6 months ago... there are some before and after pics in PG under the 'show me your cobs' thread. She is just an Irish cob, not sure what she has in her tho other than 'Rocket Fuel' lol
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Looking at that head, definitely a fair bit of ID there.
 
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