Horse with blood in urine

Birker2020

Birker2020

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I got to the yard a bit earlier last night so rode round the yard for twenty mins before untacking and mucking out. When i came to muck out i found two or three areas of my shavings bed with fresh blood on top. I checked my horses mouth, nose, feet and bottom for blood and finding none assumed it was blood from a mouse or bird that the yard cat had found and kiĺled. However digging down the bed i noticed more drops of blood and found in the wet patches of urine the shavings had turned a reddy burgundy colour. Aware shavings can look bloody when wet with urine due to the type of wood used after 21 yrs of mucking out shavings beds it was obvious to me it was blood. Three days b4 i noticed my horse (19 yr old gelding) had been weeing much more than normal and the Y.O had also commented she had seen him stretch out (like an american show horse stands) in his paddock. Guessing he was struggling to stale. So at half four last night i rang and spoke to a vet. Explained the situation and she said sounds like kidney stones as geldings that age sometimes get little shards that pass through the uretha and cause blood. Said to get urine sample if i can last night and drop it off today but he wouldnt wee for me. I am taking him to vets on friday for assessment on leg so she said she could put a catheter up ; presumably to get a sample. Poor boy. Is eating drinking and behaving normally and temperature fine. Anyone come across this before please? A&E nurse at yard said sounds like a urine infection. I will obviously monitor him this week.
 
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Applecart14, I've had a kidney stone that passed in shards that ripped my ureter on the way and I can tell you that it's absolutely excruciating pain. Bladder infections are also painful. Please don't leave your poor horse for a whole week before it's investigated.
 
ycbm said:
Applecart14, I've had a kidney stone that passed in shards that ripped my ureter on the way and I can tell you that it's absolutely excruciating pain. Bladder infections are also painful. Please don't leave your poor horse for a whole week before it's investigated.
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i get the feeling the vet is not convinced blood is from urine. The horse appears fit and well in himself as i say usual responses eating well reacting as normal. I am there this afternoon as staff have turned out for me this morning so i will see how he is later. He is not giving any indication whatsoever that he is in pain of any sort.
 
applecart14 said:
i get the feeling the vet is not convinced blood is from urine. The horse appears fit and well in himself as i say usual responses eating well reacting as normal. I am there this afternoon as staff have turned out for me this morning so i will see how he is later. He is not giving any indication whatsoever that he is in pain of any sort.
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So wheres the blood coming from is the obvious question?
So the standing funny has no significance? Do you not think that is showing discomfort ,pain call it what you will . You either need to get a sample or get the vet out! Leaving tll next friday with a potential infection is irresponsible IMO.
 
Be careful Applecart that would not be a wait till Friday thing here .
I would take his temperature four times a day .
If it goes up even a smidgeon press the panic button .
 
popsdosh said:
So wheres the blood coming from is the obvious question?
So the standing funny has no significance? Do you not think that is showing discomfort ,pain call it what you will . You either need to get a sample or get the vet out! Leaving tll next friday with a potential infection is irresponsible IMO.
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The vet said it was quiet okay to leave till friday for further investigation given the horse is eating and drinking normally and is not showing any signs of illness. Without a sample of urine i got the feeling from the telephone consultation that there is little benefit in them coming out to me.
What i have read on the subject mirrors what the vet has said so please dont accuse me of ill treating my horse. If i found blood im my wee i wouldnt be attending a&e. I mentined the standing to the vet but given it was six days ago and the horse is well she thought it may have been relevant at the time.
 
Applecart you really make me wonder sometimes. You complain about the way you are treated on this forum, and sometimes people do jump on you quite hard. And then you post a thread saying that your horse is bleeding and may have a urinary infection or kidney stones and that you don't intend a vet to see it for one day short of a full week. Honestly, what did you expect us to say? Why did you post? Because if it was for sympathy and support, I'm not sure you'll be getting much of it.

FWIW I peed totally normally (apart from there blood) and was bright and chirpy when I had the kidney stone. But when it was moving it was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life.
 
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Goldenstar said:
Be careful Applecart that would not be a wait till Friday thing here .
I would take his temperature four times a day .
If it goes up even a smidgeon press the panic button .
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Are you a vet Goldenstar? Please i am not being funny when i ask the question but if the vet feels there is no urgency i would rather take her expertise over people who are not vets on a forum. I cannot possibly take temp four times a day i when i work full time a distance of twenty miles from site. There are many reasons for blood in urine and many of them are not pain related. I asked if anyone had encountered that with their horse not opinions on whether i am a rotten owner not having equivalent of blues and twos on the yard doorstep! Anyone that knows me will know i am always first on the phone to the vet. Hardly not caring. But neither am i a panicker. Yard staff and fellow liveries i questionned last night said horse behaving as normal which is what i can see as an owner of twelve years. I think a bit of perspective is called for.
 
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applecart14 said:
Are you a vet Goldenstar? Please i am not being funny when i ask the question but if the vet feels there is no urgency i would rather take her expertise over people who are not vets on a forum. I cannot possibly take temp four times a day i when i work full time a distance of twenty miles from site. There are many reasons for blood in urine and many of them are not pain related. I asked if anyone had encountered that with their horse not opinions on whether i am a rotten owner not having equivalent of blues and twos on the yard doorstep! Anyone that knows me will know i am always first on the phone to the vet. Hardly not caring. But neither am i a panicker. Yard staff and fellow liveries i questionned last night said horse behaving as normal which is what i can see as an owner of twelve years.
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Your horse ,your question ,dont ask if you know better. If I was you I would be down there all day today till I get a sample to take to the vets to put my mind at ease . To be honest im a little surprised the Vet is so relaxed about it and of course google is always a good fall back im guessing its on your favourites. I certainly know if it was mine the Vet would be here today and I have 12 horses and only see them twice a year. The Vet that is!!!!
 
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popsdosh said:
Your horse ,your question ,dont ask if you know better. If I was you I would be down there all day today till I get a sample to take to the vets to put my mind at ease . To be honest im a little surprised the Vet is so relaxed about it and of course google is always a good fall back im guessing its on your favourites. I certainly know if it was mine the Vet would be here today and I have 12 horses and only see them twice a year. The Vet that is!!!!
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I asked if anyone had come across this before. I did not ask for your opinion as non vets on whether i should get the vet out as i have already had a phone consultation with my own vet as explained who has reassured me that my horse can wait till friday on the proviso that he is eating, drinking and urinating and is well in himself. He was last night. He is ok today or i would have had a call from staff who turned him out. I will see him at lunch time. I cannot magic a water sample from no where.
 
applecart14 said:
I asked if anyone had come across this before. I did not ask for your opinion as non vets on whether i should get the vet out as i have already had a phone consultation with my own vet as explained who has reassured me that my horse can wait till friday on the proviso that he is eating, drinking and urinating and is well in himself. He was last night. He is ok today or i would have had a call from staff who turned him out. I will see him at lunch time. I cannot magic a water sample from no where.
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Obviously your vet has come across it before so why the need to ask us mere mortals if we have experienced it.
Think you need to google there are many ways to get a horse to pee or ask your vet. ! How do you know hes urinating ok if you cant get a sample ? Usually by the time all the symptoms you reel off are evident the infection will be well established! Hence more difficult to treat to state the obvious. Like I say your horse ,All I can give you is 40+yrs of looking after lots of horses and what you describe would not be treated lightly!
 
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I'm not aware of any ways blood will be appearing in urine without their being associated pain let alone many?

No I wouldn't take myself to A+E if I had blood in my pee but I'd be at the GPs on monday.

I would be at the yard as much as possible this weekend to try and get a sample and leave a suitable container in/outside his stable and ask others to grab one if they spot him going too and I would certainly be monitoring his temperature carefully in case of infection in the meantime.
 
I was taken to A&E at three in the morning because of the pain I was in. I was on and off curled up in agony for five days. No-one who saw me when the stone was not moving would have had a clue.

Applecart, if you didn't want alternative points of view then I'm struggling to understand why you posted.

Knowing what I know about the intermittent nature of kidney stone pain and the seriousness of bladder infections (one killed my friend's mother), your horse would be on 24 hour watch if he was mine and a vet would be out this morning to get a sample.

If you don't want to hear this, don't ask!
 
In case you don't know, this is a kidney stone. Mine. It's five millimetres high and as sharp as a knife

IMG_20170128_101829_zpsacefeadt.jpg



PS yes I did carry a tea strainer with me to catch the b##g&£×. I was determined to see what could possibly cause such pain!
 
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There could be many reasons for the vet being relaxed about this - and they may well be proved right. But my worry would be that the horse could go downhill very fast. And if it happens in the middle of the night then it might not be spotted until too late. I've seen what happens when a horse is caught in severe pain and in a box overnight - it isn't pretty.

OP - is there may way you or the stable staff could get a sample over the weekend? I get how hard it is when you have to work - but there are clear days now. If the blood persists I certainly would not leave him until the end of the week.
 
Certain brands of shavings turn a deep red when they are saturated with urine, the cheaper ones are the most likely to go red as they have red wood mixed in with the white.

I think it would be well worth being absolutely sure it is blood, I found a stable with 'blood' in it a few years ago and thought the horse was in trouble.
 
Easy to do but boring as hell, just sit in the stable read a book with a mug in your hand, catch pee in mug and you can even use a dip stick to test the pee for blood or just drop it off at the vets

Lay a few bags of fresh shavings and he will pee before you know it
 
The only experience of blood in urine I have was not a horse but my father he had kidney stones and he was in agony, after going to the doctors and being admitted to hospital he had a cancerous tumour outside his bladder, after several years of chemo and radiotherapy it spread to his bones and he died, so in your situation I would consider this as being serious regardless of what your vet says I wouldn't wait a week until the horse is seen, just because his a vet doesn't mean they are always right, please don't leave it as other posters have said kidney stones are excruciating agony and need to be treated.
 
applecart14 said:
Are you a vet Goldenstar? Please i am not being funny when i ask the question but if the vet feels there is no urgency i would rather take her expertise over people who are not vets on a forum. I cannot possibly take temp four times a day i when i work full time a distance of twenty miles from site. There are many reasons for blood in urine and many of them are not pain related. I asked if anyone had encountered that with their horse not opinions on whether i am a rotten owner not having equivalent of blues and twos on the yard doorstep! Anyone that knows me will know i am always first on the phone to the vet. Hardly not caring. But neither am i a panicker. Yard staff and fellow liveries i questionned last night said horse behaving as normal which is what i can see as an owner of twelve years. I think a bit of perspective is called for.
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Why post if you don't want advice I am at loss to understand your attitude.
No I am not a vet and you know that so I find your tone unnecessary rude but I do have plus years of experiance of horses at all level doing all sorts of thing I simply said what I would do IF I decided to make a horse peeing blood wait a week to see a vet .
If your happy for your horse to pee blood till Friday it's no skin off my nose .
I am appalled that any one keeps a horse in a situation were its temperature can't be monitored four times a day when something odd is going on but hey everybody standards are different .
 
Pinkvboots said:
The only experience of blood in urine I have was not a horse but my father he had kidney stones and he was in agony, after going to the doctors and being admitted to hospital he had a cancerous tumour outside his bladder, after several years of chemo and radiotherapy it spread to his bones and he died, so in your situation I would consider this as being serious regardless of what your vet says I wouldn't wait a week until the horse is seen, just because his a vet doesn't mean they are always right, please don't leave it as other posters have said kidney stones are excruciating agony and need to be treated.
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Sorry to hear about father. So.... i call the vet this afternoon. Vet comes and sees horse alert bright obviously not in pain with normal temperature. Sees horse eating hay and head over door. What is vet meant to do then please? The vet i spoke to last night was only offering the kidney stone scenario as one of a number of possible conditions. There is no way my horse will wee. In fact ive probably only seen him wee half a dozen times in the last twelve months. He had a new shavings bed last night. Despite hovering by his door for half an hour last night he hadnt gone for a wee. Even if i get a sample wjich is highly unlikely vets now closed till monday at 9. I am at work 25 miles away and am there for seven..
 
applecart14 said:
Sorry to hear about father. So.... i call the vet this afternoon. Vet comes and sees horse alert bright obviously not in pain with normal temperature. Sees horse eating hay and head over door. What is vet meant to do then please? The vet i spoke to last night was only offering the kidney stone scenario as one of a number of possible conditions. There is no way my horse will wee. In fact ive probably only seen him wee half a dozen times in the last twelve months. He had a new shavings bed last night. Despite hovering by his door for half an hour last night he hadnt gone for a wee. Even if i get a sample wjich is highly unlikely vets now closed till monday at 9. I am at work 25 miles away and am there for seven..
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his got to wee at some point just have a good try over the weekend, my geldings tend to wee when they come in from being in the field I would just sit and wait with a bucket.
 
Goldenstar said:
Why post if you don't want advice I am at loss to understand your attitude.
No I am not a vet and you know that so I find your tone unnecessary rude but I do have plus years of experiance of horses at all level doing all sorts of thing I simply .
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i wasnt being rude and did state i wasnt being funny it was a genuine question. I dont know you personally so have no idea. On my horses life it was a genuine question. I came on here asking if anyone had any experience with this with their horse. Simple. I did no ask to be judged and slatted and slagged off. If all you can offer (and i mean all of you not just GS) is nasty unkind words with no basis experience or professional opinion i.e that of a vet that i am not interested in your personal view point. It never ceases to suprise me how many people think they know more than my vet.
 
There is no way he will wee?? he has to go sometime you might just have to wait more than half an hour. Are you at work all weekend?
 
If you are happy with your vets advice why are you asking for people's experiences as that is mostly what you have received on this thread, you asked for experiences, experienced people have replied? And people are just saying be careful because of the main things it could be infection/kidney stones as mentioned by your vet the situation could escalate and need intervention quite quickly. If you only want to talk to veterinary professionals then do so but then don't come and ask stuff on here because we don't have many vets and those that do tend not to post much on veterinary matters in case of giving incorrect advice as it would be unprofessional.

When you come up with statements like there are loads of things that can cause blood in urine without pain people really do wonder where you are coming from, because really there aren't.
 
applecart14 said:
i wasnt being rude and did state i wasnt being funny it was a genuine question. I dont know you personally so have no idea. On my horses life it was a genuine question. I came on here asking if anyone had any experience with this with their horse. Simple. I did no ask to be judged and slatted and slagged off. If all you can offer (and i mean all of you not just GS) is nasty unkind words with no basis experience or professional opinion i.e that of a vet that i am not interested in your personal view point. It never ceases to suprise me how many people think they know more than my vet.
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Be polite to people and they will be nice to you .
I do know more than a vet about how my horses are feeling and what's normal for them.
And taking the temperature of a horse showing any form of oddness is standard good practise .
I can only repeat what are you posting for if you don't want views .
On the peeing tie him up with his bed up after turnout and leave him a while chances are you will get a pee when you put the bed .
 
Causes of blood in urine:

Trauma
Infection
Renal or bladder stone....intermittent renal colic unless passed.
Tumour of urinary system...may not be painful.

You can buy a pack of heamastix at the chemist to test for blood in urine. If you can't get a proper sample use a recent wet patch.
 
If I suspected my horse was peeing blood, the first thing I would do is bring him in, have a good look at him to see if there was anything obvious that might indicate where the blood was coming from, then wait with a clean bucket. And wait, and wait, and wait some more until I got a sample. That way I could observe if he was struggling to go, have a look to see if there was indeed blood present and have a sample to take to the vet.

It took just over two hours for me to get a sample from my mare and I would wait all night if I needed to check for blood.

I wouldn't leave it.
 
ester said:
If you are happy with your vets advice why are you asking for people's experiences as that is mostly what you have received on this thread, you asked for experiences, experienced people have replied? And people are just saying be careful because of the main things it could be infection/kidney stones as mentioned by your vet the situation could escalate and need intervention quite quickly. If you only want to talk to veterinary professionals then do so but then don't come and ask stuff on here because we don't have many vets and those that do tend not to post much on veterinary matters in case of giving incorrect advice as it would be unprofessional.

When you come up with statements like there are loads of things that can cause blood in urine without pain people really do wonder where you are coming from, because really there aren't.
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There is no one on here that has given me an experience of their horse having wee in its blood its all been speculation. Yes there are lots of reasons. Kidney stones. Bladder cancer. Urine infection. Kidney infection. Urethitis. Kidney cancer. Prostrate cancer : not sure if horses can get this. Infection in the sheath. No one has told me how getting a vet out to my horse this afternoon will give me a diagnosis because none of you can. Because the vet cant. Err and i do think i know the weeing habits of my horse a bit more than people on here do. Amazing how a simple question always turns into a bitch fest for certain people on thus forum. I wont be commenting on this post anymore.
 
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all of which cause pain,
you specifically suggested there were lots of possible reasons that wouldn't cause pain to your horse!
 
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