Horse with heart murmur!

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GoodFlight

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Hi all,

Wondering if anyone has had any experience with this!

In October my horse became very ill having escaped his field and eating Corn!! He has developed a grade 4 heart murmur and has been out of work since. I was just wondering whether anyone has had any experience with a murmur and bringing back into work? Should I take it slower than usual? Will being in work help reduce it? Will it ever go? My vets have been useless with questions so far! But I also wasn't thinking of bringing him back into work at the time either as he was meant to be having a holiday being a youngster *rolls eyes*

Any advice welcome
 
There was another thread in the Tack Room about heart murmurs that might help.

My mum's horse collapsed in May while being ridden. Thankfully he is only in light work so was only walking and he threw her clear when he went down. The vet diagnosed a grade 4 heart murmur and said not to ride at all. He advised no cure but we could put him to the hospital for a few days to get monitored and if it a certain type he could go onto steroids to manage it. He was a stress head when stabled and as it wasn't going to be a cure we decided against it.

It was a fairly quick decision to decide to pts. He had various physical issues that were managed by being in light work; even during the 3 weeks he had off he got sore and stiff again on 24/7 turnout. The risk that he could collapse on someone when being handled or collapse when having a yee-haa in the field was a worry compared to being pts peacefully at home while "relatively" healthy so that was the decision.

If your vet can't provide answers then I'd get a referal to an equine practice and get veterinary advice prior to any excercise or riding.
 
My pony was diagnosed with a heart Murmur nearly 3 years ago. Was diagnosed completely by accident during a routine call out. He was fit and out competing. He had a Grade 6 Diastolic murmur with musicality. He was referred to a specialist cardiologist who came and examined him, having a scan and an ECG whilst he was exercised.
I was advised that I could continue with exercise but he was scanned 4 times over the first 12 months to monitor changes in his heart. He was then reduced to an annual scan prior to the competition season to ensure he was fit and ok to compete.
Unfortunately his ECG this year showed severe abnormalities in his heart rate when he was galloped so he had to be retired with immediate effect as the risk of him collapsing whilst being ridden was considered too high. He is now retired to the field with his old companion horse and will remain there to live out his days in retirement.
If you would like to PM me I can tell you more about the cardiologist we used (recommended by our vet and covered by Insurance) I can't recommend her highly enough and she is highly regarded in her specialist area of veterinary medicine.
 
You need to find out what sort of murmur it is. The grade just refers to how loud it is, and they can be loud and harmless just as easily as they can be near silent but deadly - it depends what is leaking into what. And horses hearts are notoriously leaky at the best of times.

Good luck, as I know how scary it can seem at first.
 
I am sorry to say my only knowledge of a horse with a heart murmur was not a good one.

A friend bought a great horse, but on vetting had a heart murmur. He really liked the horse, so further tests were done, and the vet reassured him that it was just one of those things, and the horse was OK to buy, although they did get a discount.

The horse was great, hunted, team chased, BSJA'ed as it was then.

Then... one day a good few years later I was following him out hunting. We were in a line to pop a 5 bar gate, and the horse in front of my friend refused. My friend's horse had to pull up short, whereupon it had a massive heart failure, thrashed around then died.

Of course, removing the tack, calling out some recovery, and taking an empty trailer home was horrible.

I was eternally grateful that the horse in front refused, as if the strain of pulling up cause the heart failure, I guess the jump over the fixed fence would have too.

So, I would listen to what the vet has to say about the condition, but after that experience I would be cautious. Of course, this is from the person who still rides her horse who is a wobbler, so I would also say it is good to listen to the experts and make your own decision on what you ae prepared to do (I don't jump him any more!).
 
Red-1 said:
I am sorry to say my only knowledge of a horse with a heart murmur was not a good one.

A friend bought a great horse, but on vetting had a heart murmur. He really liked the horse, so further tests were done, and the vet reassured him that it was just one of those things, and the horse was OK to buy, although they did get a discount.

The horse was great, hunted, team chased, BSJA'ed as it was then.

Then... one day a good few years later I was following him out hunting. We were in a line to pop a 5 bar gate, and the horse in front of my friend refused. My friend's horse had to pull up short, whereupon it had a massive heart failure, thrashed around then died.

Of course, removing the tack, calling out some recovery, and taking an empty trailer home was horrible.

I was eternally grateful that the horse in front refused, as if the strain of pulling up cause the heart failure, I guess the jump over the fixed fence would have too.

So, I would listen to what the vet has to say about the condition, but after that experience I would be cautious. Of course, this is from the person who still rides her horse who is a wobbler, so I would also say it is good to listen to the experts and make your own decision on what you ae prepared to do (I don't jump him any more!).
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I think you are assuming too much what evidence do you have to link the murmur to what happened ,most murmurs are harmless and it is very common to find them in fit horses.
 
Hi I have a 6yr old with a murmur that was detected at his vetting last year, I still brought despite as I fell in love with him!
I have also worked at a vets for a number of years so had some extra help/advice, you need to find out exactly what type of murmur it is, many horses have a physiological murmur which shouldn't affect them at all but yearly scans are advised, if however it is a valve problem it's slightly more difficult, mine has a grade 3 and mitral valve leak and also slightly enlarged left side of his heart and I was advised although yes he could collapse during work, as long as I am careful not to be stupid and keep him fit there is no reason why he can't do exactly what I brought him for (normal riding club horse so bit of everything). He does have an ecg yearly to check all ok and Tim Brazil the vet in Hereford is absolutely amazing and gave lovely advice! But overall I just keep him fit and am careful not to be stupid and overdo things!
 
I have a big horse who passed a vet 8 years ago with a second degree heart block, not sure if this relevant?

He's still alive and terrorising half the yard
 
popsdosh said:
I think you are assuming too much what evidence do you have to link the murmur to what happened ,most murmurs are harmless and it is very common to find them in fit horses.
Click to expand...
Because he was vetted upon being shipped over from Ireland with a clear heart and my vet has advise it would be from what he ate, it caused a massive strain on his body and two other horses unfortunately didn't make it
 
EstherYoung said:
You need to find out what sort of murmur it is. The grade just refers to how loud it is, and they can be loud and harmless just as easily as they can be near silent but deadly - it depends what is leaking into what. And horses hearts are notoriously leaky at the best of times.

Good luck, as I know how scary it can seem at first.
Click to expand...

All I know is it is a valve muscle issue where it is not closing and the blood is rushing back and it's the valve that leaks into the lungs?
 
Have they done an ECG and scanned the heart? Without that, there is no way of saying for sure what's causing the murmur.

The vet found that one of my horses had a a grade 5 murmur when checking his heart prior to sedation. The cardiologist found a mild leaky aortic valve, which I believe is the potentially drop down dead type but also quite common in older horses. It normally progresses slowly and he has had no deterioration over a year. The murmur itself comes and goes.

Ask the vet to refer your horse to a cardiologist. Insurance will cover it. If you're not insured, the examination and report is about £600.
 
Red-1 said:
I am sorry to say my only knowledge of a horse with a heart murmur was not a good one.

A friend bought a great horse, but on vetting had a heart murmur. He really liked the horse, so further tests were done, and the vet reassured him that it was just one of those things, and the horse was OK to buy, although they did get a discount.

The horse was great, hunted, team chased, BSJA'ed as it was then.

Then... one day a good few years later I was following him out hunting. We were in a line to pop a 5 bar gate, and the horse in front of my friend refused. My friend's horse had to pull up short, whereupon it had a massive heart failure, thrashed around then died.

Of course, removing the tack, calling out some recovery, and taking an empty trailer home was horrible.

I was eternally grateful that the horse in front refused, as if the strain of pulling up cause the heart failure, I guess the jump over the fixed fence would have too.

So, I would listen to what the vet has to say about the condition, but after that experience I would be cautious. Of course, this is from the person who still rides her horse who is a wobbler, so I would also say it is good to listen to the experts and make your own decision on what you ae prepared to do (I don't jump him any more!).
Click to expand...

You also know our Spud who has three ;)

Just a potential point to add to the above, just because the horse had a harmless murmur all it's life, it doesn't mean that it won't have developed an unrelated and more serious heart issue.

The sorts of heart issues that cause them to suddenly drop dead often have no symptoms at all.
 
My ID Fatty was given to me with a murmer .
He was subject a LOU payout.
This was not a valve issue so diffferent to the horse you describe .
Fatty was recommended to PTS he had treatment with steroids when that did not resolve the issues he was written off by the insurance company .
During the time after the murmer was discovered he had ECGs and heart scans .and spent time being assessed by two specialist vet at a vet uni.
He was classed as dangerous to ride and we were to avoid handling him is enclosed spaces .
What saved fatty was a conversation with a friend who is a GP after about six months
She told people suffer the condition Fatty had ( muscle issue caused by damaged caused by a virus )and they are made to exercise so after checking with the vet that the only reason the horse could not work was safety as he might collapse .
We started leading him from another horse and lunging him .
After about four months both my groom and I thought there's was something different about him the vet came in repeated the egc he was fine seven seasons later he's still going .
Your friend needs the best advice they can get and that will probably mean a trip to a centre of excellence .
 
As everyone says, it all depends.

1. Driving horse competing regularly was diagnosed with serious murmur, put on iron supplement and recovered.
2. Horse being vetted for sale "failed" on heart. Own vet was surprised, so went for full investigations at horse hospital and came back "normal"
3. Pony 7 years old being vetted, vet stopped vetting as unsafe to ride!
4. I understood that a murmer detected while standing in the stable is common, it is what the heart is like when the
horse is exercised and under stress that is important.

This one is for the experts I think.
 
We have a TB who did not have a murmur in May by September he was found to have developed a grade 4 murmur. He was scanned and exercise ECG ed by Tim Brazil and has a fairly spectacular aortic regurgitation. This was 3 years ago and as he was my husband' s hack we decided to retire him as husband did not want him dropping dead underneath him. He is happy in the field but has lost condition despite hard feed, has just been started on boiled barley and linseed so if that does not help we might have pts.
 
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