Horse with high head carriage...?

[jenbleep]

Hi all

How would you ride and what exercises would you do with a young horse with a high head carriage?

Just after a few hints and experiences really. The horse carrys his head high and his neck seems almost upside down, and doesn't really work from behind. He is only 5.

I was thinking polework - I know an exercise where trot poles are used down the middle of the school, then working up to 10m circles at the end of the poles (in the corner in the school) alternating on both reins. This would have to be worked up to obvs.

Any other ideas? That I can use straight away? I'd only be schooling him for 30 mins twice a week at the minute, and maybe one hack. Owner still rides but needs a little help.

I've not ridden another horse other than C for 3.5 years and rustling through my torn out of magazines schooling exercises...

Thanks in advance for anyone who replies

FYI - I will help help on the ground from someone once or twice a month.

 

[Blitzen]

Have you considered training from the ground to help him build up the correct muscles to carry himself? Lunging in a Pessoa might be a controvesial suggestion (some people really don't like them, but I see no problem in one being used for short periods of time during a lunging session, at first no more than 5 mins each way, walk and short bursts of trot gradually building up as muscles develop).
I'll ask the obligatory - back/tack/teeth etc all ok? x

 

[diggerbez]

i was going to suggest something similar Laura- not necessarily a Pessoa- but something like a bungee, or Kerilli's draw rein contraption etc.... just something used for short periods of time to suggest to him where his head needs to be- just have whatever gadget you have very loose at first and encourage him forwards so that he starts looking for the contact down if that makes sense

 

[Tnavas]

Trotting poles should be great to get his head down provided he does intend to look where he is going.

Change the distances from getting a full stride between them - 9' apart - you can also walk & canter over these and 4'6" apart which makes them work a bit more carefully.

raising the poles off the ground a few inches also makes them work harder.

The most important way of correcting his way of going is to school him into an outline, masses of transitions between paces and within the pace along with changes of direction circles, loops and serpentines.

This I found on another forum and is about the effect the lunging systems have on the horses muscle development
"The only 'contraptions/lunging systems' that allow the biomechanics of true collection esp the base of the neck to raise and telescope the head and neck up and out is a chambon, or correctly fitted side reins. This is vital for all riders to understand.

I had an aquantince come and give me a demo of the pessoa/kincade/euro system a few years ago on my mare, it is the first time I have ever seen my mare go disunited behind in the canter, altho this person had some vague explanation why....

This person also teaches people that use this system and the one thing their horses have in common is large, overdeveloped, shortened and contracted rhombedious and trapezius muscle, this makes the horse appear to carry its neck in a very fixed 'steady' frame, which can be very deceiving to the untrained eye. However if you look closey you will see stiff and/or explosive transistions, and very stiff loins that don't step thru, creating hovering paces and either very hard contact with the mouth or no real contact at all-esp in the mother gait-walk, the free walk is always a dead giveaway. Even if a horse DOES appear to put its head down, it is not stretching and swinging thru a relaxed topline.

The reason these muscles get so big is because with any force from the very beginning of a horses training the smaller, less advantaged muscles underneath never get a chance to develop, causing the base of the neck to remain jammed down. It is extremely common to see this at shows, dressage days, pretty much any competitive event. Along with 'broken neck' and with horses with less superior conformation, or older horses, some visible form of sacroiliac, lumbo sacral joint strain/pathology or other form of back/ligament strain"

I personally doen't like the passoa because with every step the horse takes it see saws the bit in its mouth.

 

[Carefreegirl]

I use a Pessoa on mine and it's worked a treat. She's naturally built down hill so side reins, bungee straps etc don't work as she goes straight into lean mode. I use poles on a circle so she has to lengthen or shorten her stride and use her brain depending on where I place her and I also use raised poles. If I felt the Pessoa was sawing on her mouth I would loosen it but I've never had it that tight. The poles definitely help.

 

[sj_xc_hannah_]

I used a bungee on mine every time I schooled for a month, and now we are working on it without it, it got him thinking the right way and meant that I could focus on getting him to work from behind, it makes it easier for when you take it off as they are just a little more willing and have the basic muscles ready.

 

[Goldenstar]

bungees are good and have fewer of the potential problems that a Pessoa can cause . Also go to the horse heros website and look at the lunging rope a really simple thing that works really well on some and has the big advantage that the horse does not over bend ( which is one of the real pitfalls of the Pessoa )
You do have to try different things and what helps now may not be the best thing in 3 months time.

 

[jenbleep]

Wow thanks for all the replies everyone, there is some great advice here.

I did mention to his owner about lungeing in a Pessoa, but she doesn't have one. He is kept on a yard full of show jumpers so can use the draw rein method so I will give these ideas a try and see what he makes of it. I was also thinking of a Chambon, but wasn't sure if this is something to use on a younger horse??

I have only ridden him once and we hacked out, his head and neck were very high but after 45 mins (!) on the way home he did have a stretch and lower his head. I think it will come but may take a few months, he is so different to C.

I'm looking forward to the challenge - I will have a few rides/lunge in the school and see what happens and who knows if all goes well might have some photos to show you all

Xmas in the sun thanks for the pole work suggestion - that sounds like it might be worth a try.

Laura C - I will have to check with the owner re:teeth and saddle etc. I don't think she has had him all that long, so I would imagine they were fairly recent. I thought he seemed uncomfortable but he did have a rather strong bit in, which I thought was unessacery (sp) and suggested a snaffle.

Thanks again everyone

 

[Twilkolock]

Just a suggestion but it may be worth trying to identify/diagnose 'high head carriage' before emabarking on schooling/exercises:
1. Does he have high head carriage because he is evading the bit or is in discomfort? Teeth, back, saddle check a must. If evading needs different bit/softer hands. A really hollow posture is the horses way of telling us all is not right.
2. Is he actually hollow throught his whole body? Then this is a case of encouraging longitudinal flexion and stretch/flexion through the back [with connection from hindlegs.] I don't use training aids but rather transitions between and within the gates and exercises where even the simple sirpentine that asks for differing lateral flexions when changing direction can be really good. Counter flexion?
3. Is his neck actually at the right height but doesn't tip over at the pole? If so, he may lack flexion in this region laterally/longitudinally. Small circles at walk asking for inside and counter flexion?
4. Is he built with a naturally high head carriage? This is better than a low set on neck. Again, encourage pole & longitutdinal flexion to stretch topline of neck.
You may not agree but I'd try to break down exactly what he's doing before asking things of him that he may not be physically capable of doing just yet.

(Stretching topline with pessoa whilst asking him to raise/flex legs over poles is quite physically demanding if he's weak at the moment.)