Horse with hives for 2 months, all help appreciated

[mariaandefe]

Hi all!

I am a showjumping rider based in the useless country called Turkey
I have quite the case, my horse and I travelled 3 hours into the mountains for a dressage clinic where he came into contact with a mare (my horse is a stallion) he only sniffed her. Upon coming back, we changed his feed from a pelleted form into more of a mix form (same brand, same ingredients) - this feed is low quality I must add. I noticed after 3 days of sorta changing his feed he starting getting halo type hives around his eyes. 2 weeks later he is fully covered in awful hives (by this time I cut out any supplements and the ‘new feed’)

I talked with vets, he had antihistamine injections for 3 days. He was fine for 5 days then he started getting small hives again (as if they were insect bites) and each day they just kept getting bigger and bigger and spread around his whole body.

Vets decided to give him an immunomodulator, which done absolutely nothing.

So here we are 2 months later with the same episodes on hives. Horse is currently on plain oats, meadow hay, water, shavings and a bunch of human medicine for his liver.

PS i must add, we look a bunch of blood tests. Everything is normal (immune system, liver, kidneys etc).

I have read SO MUCH about this, I done an elimination diet as well as changed his shavings to straw

Main point to add, Turkey has absolutely nothing for horses (no allergy panel tests, no dust-free shavings etc, and the best type of feed we have here is either Red Mills or Saracen).

ABSOLUTELY ALL HELP AND TIPS ARE WELCOME

 

[Midlifecrisis]

If blood tests are clear why is horse on human meds for liver? That would be my first item removed. Then I would try antihistamine injections/tablets and is it definitely small defined rash lumps? Any hair loss around the hives?if so and you were based Northern Europe I would think of ringworm. Keep pushing your vets for an answer.

 

[PurBee]

Has water supply horse is drinking changed?

Seems strange after elimination diet for weeks now that the hives keep reappearing, especially as blood panels clear too.

I wonder if at the clinic he picked up a resistant infection or virus?, and the cause of food change wasnt actually the true cause, but just coincided with hives appearing?

Can you have a panel of tests for infections/viruses that commonly affect horses in Turkey?

 

[nutjob]

I had a horse who was very allergic to various things, some of which I never properly identified. As an elimination diet he was fed only alfalfa, over here you can also try timothy haylage which eliminates rye grass which can cause allergies and other random plants present in meadow hay. Horse can't be turned out and it may need to be implemented for a few weeks if the horse is already having a problem as the hives come up quickly but go down slowly.

My horse was unable to be turned out to graze and had to be kept off growing grass, it did turn out in the end that he was OK on most hays and haylages.

A lot of liver tonics contain an assortment of herbs, my horse could not have had this, especially anything with echinacea, and also could not have glucosamine if derived from crustaceans. I rewashed all my horse's rugs, saddle pads etc in plain water as I know someone whose horse reacted to washing powder but this didn't help mine. Are there any other products you apply like fly repellants, shampoo etc.

My horse was close to being euthanised as the swellings were so uncomfortable for him. He was given a steroid injection, dexamethasone which did very quickly make him feel better but he came down with laminitis. He was OK on prednisolone tablets, even a large dose of 100/day which calmed down the symptoms while I worked through the exclusion diet process. My vets didn't rate the allergy tests but this was years ago now.

 

[mariaandefe]

If blood tests are clear why is horse on human meds for liver? That would be my first item removed. Then I would try antihistamine injections/tablets and is it definitely small defined rash lumps? Any hair loss around the hives?if so and you were based Northern Europe I would think of ringworm. Keep pushing your vets for an answer.

hi thanks for your reply!
i had the latest blood test done a week after he had a dex injection of 2ml, i don’t know but this vet thinks he has a problem with his liver? so he put him on a bunch of meds for his liver. the hives start off as small bumps (as if they are insect bites) and each day they just grow in size. latest episode was him working in a muddy arena and the hives spread to his hock area and around his armpits and male area. no hair loss, they sometimes pop and some yellow liquid comes out. right now he’s on 10-15 prednol tablets a day and the liver meds as well.

 

[mariaandefe]

Has water supply horse is drinking changed?

Seems strange after elimination diet for weeks now that the hives keep reappearing, especially as blood panels clear too.

I wonder if at the clinic he picked up a resistant infection or virus?, and the cause of food change wasnt actually the true cause, but just coincided with hives appearing?

Can you have a panel of tests for infections/viruses that commonly affect horses in Turkey?

hi! thanks for your reply

he was in the mountains so he probably had mountain water at the clinic. the water did change after he came back to his original yard. He is stabled in a indoor barn, I moved him to an outdoor stable and also bought mountain water down everyday as the outdoor stables don’t have an automatic water drinker, the hives just got worse as I moved him outside and gave him mountain water.
One vet also suggested that he could’ve caught an infection or virus, however I would think that maybe his WBC count would’ve been elevated in his blood? I’m not sure…Could you maybe suggest any infection/virus tests that vets perform in the UK so I could mention it to a vet? He had a pathogen test done where they extracted the liquid from the hives and I’m still awaiting results…

 

[mariaandefe]

I had a horse who was very allergic to various things, some of which I never properly identified. As an elimination diet he was fed only alfalfa, over here you can also try timothy haylage which eliminates rye grass which can cause allergies and other random plants present in meadow hay. Horse can't be turned out and it may need to be implemented for a few weeks if the horse is already having a problem as the hives come up quickly but go down slowly.

My horse was unable to be turned out to graze and had to be kept off growing grass, it did turn out in the end that he was OK on most hays and haylages.

A lot of liver tonics contain an assortment of herbs, my horse could not have had this, especially anything with echinacea, and also could not have glucosamine if derived from crustaceans. I rewashed all my horse's rugs, saddle pads etc in plain water as I know someone whose horse reacted to washing powder but this didn't help mine. Are there any other products you apply like fly repellants, shampoo etc.

My horse was close to being euthanised as the swellings were so uncomfortable for him. He was given a steroid injection, dexamethasone which did very quickly make him feel better but he came down with laminitis. He was OK on prednisolone tablets, even a large dose of 100/day which calmed down the symptoms while I worked through the exclusion diet process. My vets didn't rate the allergy tests but this was years ago now.

Hi! thanks for you reply

Did you not rule out what he was allergic to in the end?
I stopped all repellents, sprays etc around a month ago now… I wash his rugs with soda and vinegar instead of washing powder.
Unfortunately in Turkey horses are fed on only alfalfa hay or meadow hay, some sellers sell ryegrass too, however most hay here is awful quality wise…

 

[criso]

I had a horse with constant hives. We were able to do tests but too many triggers for immunotherapy.

It was nothing to do with food but allergens in contact with his skin so for example ryegrass was a trigger. He could have it in haylage but not in hay. We spent months on an elimination diet but no improvement however when we went to the vet college his lumps went overnight. Any food would still be in his gut so must be environmental.

A key one was trees/wood. I eliminated that putting him on straw and avoiding the other items mentioned and long-term many I was able to reintroduce but he stayed allergic to wood based bedding and shavings would bring him out in hives. He also had a reaction to tree pollen in early spring as he got older.

Once we started eliminating, he didn't improve overnight, he improved slowly over many months. Each attack would be less intense.

Combining Global herbs Restore and Immunoplus helped his immune system.

 

[mariaandefe]

I had a horse with constant hives. We were able to do tests but too many triggers for immunotherapy.

It was nothing to do with food but allergens in contact with his skin so for example ryegrass was a trigger. He could have it in haylage but not in hay. We spent months on an elimination diet but no improvement however when we went to the vet college his lumps went overnight. Any food would still be in his gut so must be environmental.

A key one was trees/wood. I eliminated that putting him on straw and avoiding the other items mentioned and long-term many I was able to reintroduce but he stayed allergic to wood based bedding and shavings would bring him out in hives. He also had a reaction to tree pollen in early spring as he got older.

Once we started eliminating, he didn't improve overnight, he improved slowly over many months. Each attack would be less intense.

Combining Global herbs Restore and Immunoplus helped his immune system.

Hi, thanks for your reply!
I have tried putting him on straw and there was no change unfortunately, he basically ate all the straw, and was still in hives. he starts ozone therapy tomorrow which should help with the inflammation, and i’ll give him some organic herbs and probiotics as well as brewers yeast because my last resort would be that he has bad gut microbiome, and i’ll probably end up doing the microbiome test and the mane and mineral test, as i’ve done everything i can environmentally and feed related, because at his point i feel like he’s allergic to everything he eats and everything that touches him

 

[Red-1]

I worked with one who had terrible hives for about 9 months. It sounds similar to yours.

We did elimination diets, but it turned out he had become allergic to 5 substances and one or other was always in the environment so they never calmed down.

In the end, we spent £££s on having blood drawn and sent to France. They sent a list of the substances he was allergic to and treated his blood and gave it back in small vials, mixed with something, that were kept in the fridge and we had to inject it back into him.

I have no idea what was in it or what was done to the blood, but it worked!

He became perfectly healthy and normal to look after.

 

[mariaandefe]

I worked with one who had terrible hives for about 9 months. It sounds similar to yours.

We did elimination diets, but it turned out he had become allergic to 5 substances and one or other was always in the environment so they never calmed down.

In the end, we spent £££s on having blood drawn and sent to France. They sent a list of the substances he was allergic to and treated his blood and gave it back in small vials, mixed with something, that were kept in the fridge and we had to inject it back into him.

I have no idea what was in it or what was done to the blood, but it worked!

He became perfectly healthy and normal to look after.

Hi!

The vets offered me this type of blood test kind of thing. It’s called immunotherapy where they inject the allergens back into the horse. I however have heard biased results on this. The vets told me the blood results could come back normal and the use of antihistamines needed to be stopped for 21 days or something like this, I don’t think this could be possible in my case unfortunately. I don’t know maybe at some point if all my other plans don’t work then maybe i’ll have to resort to immunotherapy..
Did you find out what the substances were that he was allergic to?

 

[GinaGeo]

I had this with one of mine.

This thread covers it.

Ongoing lumpy skin - experiences please!

I have a three year old with some sort of ongoing skin issue. They start off as raised lumps, before developing a head and then scabbing. It’s been lingering for a year now. Having started on his Right shoulder and slowly spread back over his trunk and slowly to the other side. My vet has...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

The Equibiome test, and treating his hind gut sorted it in the end

 

[mariaandefe]

I had this with one of mine.

This thread covers it.

Ongoing lumpy skin - experiences please!

I have a three year old with some sort of ongoing skin issue. They start off as raised lumps, before developing a head and then scabbing. It’s been lingering for a year now. Having started on his Right shoulder and slowly spread back over his trunk and slowly to the other side. My vet has...

forums.horseandhound.co.uk

The Equibiome test, and treating his hind gut sorted it in the end

Hi!

I’ve read through your thread, I ordered a probiotic and brewers yeast hopefully I can see some results. If it doesn’t help I will go down the Equibiome route and low starch feed. How long did it take for the Equibiome result?

 

[GinaGeo]

The test took 6 weeks.

I put him on their prebiotic in the meantime and saw an improvement. But it was following their full protocol that really worked

 

[mariaandefe]

The test took 6 weeks.

I put him on their prebiotic in the meantime and saw an improvement. But it was following their full protocol that really worked

A similar experience with a lady I know occurred, her horse was allergic to straw and she went through some probiotics and brewers yeast and the allergy was gone, hoping this will be the case with my horse. My horse is an OTTB and a very sensitive one, he’s a 120-130 showjumper as well so I’m really hoping this will help as his muscle and top line has completely disappeared and he’s got this huge hay belly/bloated belly makes me so sad to see him like this.

 

[mariaandefe]

Also I’d like to add, this horse loses muscle and topline so quickly and it’s so hard to regain that muscle back and he’s got a hay belly but I can also evidently see his ribs, I’m thinking he may be bloated? may this be related to a gut issue? I know that evident ribs is common in Thoroughbreds, but he’s got a huge belly and evident ribs, and I feel like it’s always been like this in the 4 years that I’ve had him. Obviously it could be lack of core muscle too and an imbalanced diet, but may this also be related to a gut issue?

 

[GinaGeo]

Sounds it.

I’d also worm count and or worm if relevant.

 

[mariaandefe]

Sounds it.

I’d also worm count and or worm if relevant.

It’s so weird, because i worm him regularly, and his manure is perfect, my naked eye doesn’t see any worms and I don’t think Turkey does any faecal tests unfortunately

 

[GinaGeo]

These ‘gutty’ horses with a poorer immune system, carry more of a burden. That’s all. But sounds like you’ve got that covered

 

[Beausmate]

It’s so weird, because i worm him regularly, and his manure is perfect, my naked eye doesn’t see any worms and I don’t think Turkey does any faecal tests unfortunately

How regularly do you worm him?

 

[mariaandefe]

How regularly do you worm him?

every 2-3 months

 

[Beausmate]

every 2-3 months

That's a hell of a lot of worming. Current thinking is to test and worm on what you find. There is a huge problem with resistance to current worming drugs on the market and there are no others, so it is important to avoid over-worming. It's a lot like the situation with antibiotics.

Is there a university that could do a worm count for you? What about vets who work in the racing industry over there?

 

[mariaandefe]

That's a hell of a lot of worming. Current thinking is to test and worm on what you find. There is a huge problem with resistance to current worming drugs on the market and there are no others, so it is important to avoid over-worming. It's a lot like the situation with antibiotics.

Is there a university that could do a worm count for you? What about vets who work in the racing industry over there?

really??! that’s awful i must say. how often would you recommend worming? i have bought 2 tests from westgate, i will send them off on the 23rd.
what are some good wormers for each season? if you don’t mind sharing

 

[mariaandefe]

hi,
the hives have migrated to the bottom of his belly and his armpits, as well as his hind legs and hocks and front legs too. what could this mean?

 

[Red-1]

Hi!

The vets offered me this type of blood test kind of thing. It’s called immunotherapy where they inject the allergens back into the horse. I however have heard biased results on this. The vets told me the blood results could come back normal and the use of antihistamines needed to be stopped for 21 days or something like this, I don’t think this could be possible in my case unfortunately. I don’t know maybe at some point if all my other plans don’t work then maybe i’ll have to resort to immunotherapy..
Did you find out what the substances were that he was allergic to?

There were 5. I can't remember them all but they included birch pollen, alfalfa, and a fungus that can live under banks in stables!

Beforehand, he was on 30 Piriton morning and night and was distressed. He had spots with heads, hives and swollen areas. It went on for almost a year.

After the injection, he lived a normal life.

 

[mariaandefe]

There were 5. I can't remember them all but they included birch pollen, alfalfa, and a fungus that can live under banks in stables!

Beforehand, he was on 30 Piriton morning and night and was distressed. He had spots with heads, hives and swollen areas. It went on for almost a year.

After the injection, he lived a normal life.

i think if nothing works i’ll have to resort to this immunotherapy.

was he on the piriton tablets when they took his blood? or did you wait?

 

[Red-1]

i think if nothing works i’ll have to resort to this immunotherapy.

was he on the piriton tablets when they took his blood? or did you wait?

It was a while ago, I don't remember. But, if the vet had said to withdraw, we would have done. The poor horse was distressed and whatever treatment the vet suggested needed doing. Some of the hives would end up like a foot across. His whole system was overwhelmed so his sheath and legs also swelled.

After the treatment - normal.

Never reoccurred in the 15 years after. Treated as normal, no need to avoid whatever it was he'd been allergic to.

I seem to recollect it was very expensive though! Although, the treatment was new and innovative at that time, so it may well have come down in price.

 

[GypsGal1718]

Have you had a new batch of hay recently?

 

[mariaandefe]

Have you had a new batch of hay recently?

the hay keeps changing at my yard, the hay changed about three times since he’s had this allergy.

 

[mariaandefe]

It was a while ago, I don't remember. But, if the vet had said to withdraw, we would have done. The poor horse was distressed and whatever treatment the vet suggested needed doing. Some of the hives would end up like a foot across. His whole system was overwhelmed so his sheath and legs also swelled.

After the treatment - normal.

Never reoccurred in the 15 years after. Treated as normal, no need to avoid whatever it was he'd been allergic to.

I seem to recollect it was very expensive though! Although, the treatment was new and innovative at that time, so it may well have come down in price.

my horse is quite similar to this, although i keep him a bit under control with the prednisolone tablets. a vet told me he needed to be off antihistamines for 21 days which i don’t know if it’s true or not?

it’s still expensive actually around 1200£