Horse with poor work ethic.

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showqa

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Here's the thing - I've had a good chat today with my RI about my horse, with whom I'm getting increasingly frustrated. He has a lot of ability, a lot of presence, and character BUT a very poor work ethic. His concentration is incosistent, often regardless as to what I do, and even my RI agrees that he is a very difficult horse to ride, quite awkward and yes - very frustrating. Now he'll stay with me forever because I do love the horse to bits, but when does the point come when you realise that you're not going to progress much further because of that lack of work ethic? Is it possible to instil work ethic? Is there any point in constantly beavering away at something that perhaps will never really happen? Thanks.
 
I don't think horses have the concept of 'work ethic' in their minds. I used to think the same as my lad was fairly flakey and hard to get focussed. Got a great instructor in and it turns out the problem was my riding. I have to be reacting every second to what he is doing and constantly on the ball about every step he makes, reacting to every move he makes and either rewarding or punishing him depending on what he does instantly. I wasn't being forceful enough demanding his attention - if i lost him for a second my instructor would be giving out to me!

its exhausting riding him at times, but he is a completely different horse! All his issues were down to me and my method of riding. My instructor was right - that the horse should be listening and respecting you. If it's not then you need to figure out how to get it to.
 
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Try having a few lessons with different people, not saying that your instructor isn;t any good but different sets if eyes will see different things - there will be a reason he's behaving the way he is you just have to find it.
 
Thanks guys.

Paddi - interesting how you describe your horse (have to be onto him every second or he's mentally off) - this is exactly what my horse is like. I'm not Carl Hester, but I'm a reasonable rider and he does exhaust me!!! I went away recently with a couple of mates, riding highly trained horses, and after their riding sessions they were saying how tired they were, but after mine I was like "THAT was a walk in the park compared to an hour on my horse!!!!" But it shouldn't be such hard work should it??? I'm not saying that riding isn't hard work, but I shouldn't be doing more than him.
 
What does he do in the course of a week. How much hacking ,how much school work ,and for how long?Oh ,and how old is he?
 
My mare is the same, she moves well and has got a cracking jump on her, but sometimes she will be going really well and lose all concentration because "ooh look! a birdie" flys past, or something similar and we are back in giraffe mode! It's hard work but I get round it by keeping her thinking all the time by doing lots of lateral work, upwards and downwards transitions, lots of gridwork varying the stride (bounce, 1 stride, 2 stride etc).

Before you give up all hope get a second opinion from a different instructor whom may have some pointers for you to help you progress
 
How old is he, and what sort of work are you doing? (flat, jumping etc, if flat what level are you working to?)

Maybe he just needs a holiday and some fun? Is he lazy or is it more stubborness? Has he always been like this or gotten worse? How often is he schooled? Do you hack as well? Sorry for all the questions :o Does he enjoy any ridden work, like hunting or hacking in company?
 
Well Mike, he's doing something 6 days a week, and some days twice a day to help engage his brain as he also gets bored sooo fast.

So, I may school him in the morning for 40 mins, lunge him in the evening for a further half hour. Or hack him out for a 1.5 hours in the morning, lunge him over some poles in the evening for half an hour. Or hack him out for 2 hours in the morning and the rest of the day off. Basically, he'll have three schooling sessions a week and three hacks a week and then a few lunge sessions in the evening.
 
Charlie he's 7, and our progress has been erratic due to severe winters, and a lack of facilities. So let's say he's very low mileage.

Dressage is really what I would like to develop, although I do pop him over small jumps for fun. In his flat work, his lateral is quite nice (shoulder in in walk and trot, quite nice half pass, travers and renvers). His walk can be ok and then awful, and we're trying to improve that, his trot is sublime and he's showing some nice medium strides, and his canter is doing quite well. We've been developing his collection. But here's the thing, during one session we can have some very, VERY nice stuff and then dreadful, dreadful stuff for no good reason other than him not concentrating. Stuff I KNOW he can do and do well, he just won't put an ounce of effort into - whatever I do to try and encourage him. You know, "There's a bird!", "The flies are bothering me", "I can hear a tractor", "Oh there's another horse!" - infuriating and babyish!!!
 
oh gosh work ethic for a horse lol - show maybe give him a break turn him out and let him think " hey im a horse " hun they are not machines they have characters personalities and also get bored like you and i would with same work day in day out - turn him away for a couple of weeks play with him lead him aroung yard let him eat thistle tops( baby soooo loves them and we stand for ages as she delicatly picks them off) sounds silly the thistle tops but sun out me leaning over baby as she stands nibbling and she loves it ( we are in search of new patch tomorrow)just spend quiet time with him - as said they are not machines - beautiful horses with minds an brains allow them to use them -hugs :)
 
Trouble is I have another horse (ex racehorse) who doesn't have the same dressage ability as him, and has only been out of racing a year, but boy does she try her heart out. She'll never have his flair, but even if it's something that she finds confusing, still she tries so hard for you. He has more talent but he just couldn't give a stuff!
 
I would perhaps cut out all school work for a couple of months, he just sounds a little sour! Could you not take him on some fun rides over the summer and some hunting in the winter? That should give him a slightly more cheerful outlook!
 
You describe my horse!

I had this exact problem, 3 weeks with his feet not touching the school, just plenty of hacking and a few good gallops in fields and have a different horse in the school! more responsive, more consistent! worth a try.
 
Babymare, I hear what you're saying but as I said he is VERY low mileage! Only this year really have we stepped up the work - for a variety of reasons he has been brought on very slowly. He has plenty of time messing around in the fields with my mare, he's hacked out lots, his schooling sessions are short and varied and I do spend a lot of time just grooming him, petting him, and being with him. I spent months at the start of the year doing nothing but walking in hand and long reining, in order to develop his fitness after a 7 week weather lay off. But at the end of the day, whilst I'm happy for him to chill and be a horse I also think it's fair that I can expect him to work at times too. I'm not exxpecting him to be out competing every weekend.
 
Too much work I would think. Lunging is extremmly hard work and not so good for the joints, I would lunge or ride but not both.
I would only spend short periods schooling ( I would class short 15-20 mins after you've warmed up) as if you are not getting anywhere you are just wearing yourselves into the ground. There is no point in him being fit if he is unresposive and not off your leg. Start with something he already does well and reward him with a short interesting hack. A two hour hack is work.I used to condition drag horses and they were only hacked out for an hour and half tops, in the season the drag was include in the work so they perhaps did less days.
To the horse what you are doing is work and why should any horse want to work if its cutting down on the eating time!! Take to the beach and have a blast or even a sponsered ride what is the point in going round in circles if you are both misrable.
 
My boy is like a small schoolboy in many ways-stuff he wants to do(exciting stuff like hunting,jumping,canter in company on a hack,spook at plastic bag) is brilliant &he has endless energy for. Stuff that he doesn't find exciting(schooling in manège)is booorrring,mum! That is not his attitude for a whole schooling session&be assured sessions are always very varied,with plenty for him to think about but it's just not his fave thing. He is always improved by doing stuff away from home(hunt,sj comp,xc school,box to hack elsewhere) but his default setting in the manège is lazy/not 100%concentration. He can (&does)produce great stuff but he'd always rather be elsewhere:) My instructor said his show name should've been 'Easily Distracted'! They're all different&unfortunately what they're good at may not be their fave thing! I just make sure I don't over-school mine&that seems to work. Maybe only do 20min sessions(plus warm-up/cool down time) &see if he can cope with that level/length of focus:)
 
Horses do not have a "work ethic"!

You need to find things that interest him. Get him to do things he knows how to do, praise him for them. Then go further, let him realise he enjoys working harder and getting out and about. The more exciting a horse's life becomes, ONLY once he is ready for it to be so, the more exciting the horse becomes. You most likely have a diamond there, take into account his past history and experiences and work on that basis.
 
I don't think horse have a work ethic ..

they have a fun ethic, make it fun for him, then he will enjoy it. Make it exciting, pleasurable and enjoyable and most probably he will co-operate and give you a lot more to work with.
 
You can expect work from him all you want. But horses have no concept of work ethic or aims.

He is obviously not enjoying his work so much, so something needs to change. I would personally spend some time just having fun, some nice long canters out on hacks and less focus on schooling for a bit. You can always ask for collection/ extension/ some lateral movements as part or your hacks so that you're not missing out on schooling.

I would concentrate on lots of transitions and see how responsive to tiny aids you can get him to be. And some extended strides in canter now and again during schooling can also add a bit more spark and enthusiasm. It may also be worth getting his tack checked if he feels 'stuffy', maybe he has muscled up and changed shape under his saddle?
 
In my opinion, I would say that is a bit too much work for him then. Personally I wouldn't lunge and ride him as well, seeing as lungeing is very hard work for them, 20mins lungeing is the same as an hours riding. I wouldn't say horses have a work ethic, and he sounds bored with what he's doing. It's frustrating, but some horses just need different things!
What's he like out hacking? Is he different than when he's in the school? What I would do is give him a few days off work where he just gets turnout, and then after a few days I would begin to bring him back with say 20-30mins of hacking a day, building it up and just easing him into it, doing lots of fun things while out. Mix up your routes, do some roadwork if he's good in traffic, have a few good gallops and then finish for the day. Then, after a few days of that (say a week or 2), maybe school for 5-10mins, doing easy stuff he knows, with lots of transitions and pole work to keep him interested, afterwards going for a hack out for 30mins as praise.

If you can, ride with someone as it does make it more interesting. Only up the work when he shows signs of being happier and more interested, but take it slowly and keep it changing if he gets bored. Some horses just do get bored and enjoy doing different things! But after doing a short schooling session, make sure to do something exciting afterwards so he remembers! Say, pop a cross pole, or go on a short hack with a buddy, turn him out, anything that he enjoys doing. Have you tried taking him somewhere to ride? Have you tried free schooling where he can kick up his heels and have fun in the school? xx
 
How much turn out does he get??

I have one horse that needs loads of turnout other wise his concentration just goes. He goes out as much as poss 247 in summer & is a differant horse.

I have another who if I leave out 247 gets extremely lazey. But if I leave in too much he also gets unhappy and stuffy so he goes out for about 10 hrs per day.
 
Has the horse been cleared by a vet? He may have foot/gut/muscle/joint pain causing poor concentration?

It's rare for a horse to loose performance for the sake of it, but heartbreakingly common for them to soldier on in pain without telling us properly.
 
Oberon, this horse has had every pro check under the sun!!! LITERALLY physio, chiro, vet, dentist, saddle fitter (and yes - his shape is between saddles at the moment so that could be a bit of an issue), and every two weeks a very experienced RI is out working with us. So I am 100% confident that this isn't a health issue.

I have taken on board a lot of what you guys have said, and thanks very much for your input. I'll make some of the changes that you've suggested and take if from there.

Re: the lunging - that was introduced BECAUSE he seemed bored only doing one thing a day. So the idea was to have him doing more to engage him, and sure it seemed to be working for a while.

Turnout - well my horses have an open barn with beds out onto a yard, which then opens into a field. So they choose whether they want to be in the field, the yard or the barn - and I have to say most of the time they choose the yard/barn!!!!

Again, cheers all! Your words have been helpful.
 
ok heres is another suggestion, ditch the schooling in the arena for a month, hack and school out hacking, take him XC schooling just low level stuff, find a couple of fun ride etc. you want have stopped the schooling just will have changed the venue of the schooling.
 
Well if it cheers you up, my instructor likened my horse to a grumpy teenager being asked to get off the sofa and wash up in our last lesson. He is only 5 and its pretty obvious he was heavily grilled in the school before I got him (and draw reins). So my last lesson was an eye opener to make it all fun for him. Shorten him through my seat on the short side, lengthen on the long side, very light contact to make him work through (as he has a tendency to fix himself behind the bit as though still in draw reins) and then he put some jumps up and pretty much let my horse sort himself out over them. This is nothing like any other lesson I have had with my instructor but was all about making my boy enjoy himself and think forward. Worked though and we ended up with some lovely trot work and a much better carriage (and a smile on both our faces!) BTW I didn't school a lot when I got him as wanted him out and hacking on our hills but am now introducing it short sessions of it. Mine has also been out for practise SJ sessions at different venues, XC schooling and lessons away from home, all of which gave me a much more chilled out horse the next day.
 
showqa said:
Babymare, I hear what you're saying but as I said he is VERY low mileage! Only this year really have we stepped up the work - for a variety of reasons he has been brought on very slowly. He has plenty of time messing around in the fields with my mare, he's hacked out lots, his schooling sessions are short and varied and I do spend a lot of time just grooming him, petting him, and being with him. I spent months at the start of the year doing nothing but walking in hand and long reining, in order to develop his fitness after a 7 week weather lay off. But at the end of the day, whilst I'm happy for him to chill and be a horse I also think it's fair that I can expect him to work at times too. I'm not exxpecting him to be out competing every weekend.
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imo horses have varying degrees of 'trainability', that is why the Totilias'' of this world do so well because they are EXTREMELY trainable. A trainable horse is every competitive riders dream.
We have 3 horses, 1 is extremely intelligent and keen and quick to learn he almost guesses what you want before you ask (shame he has a lameness issue!). Another is so willing in her work she puts her heart and soul into every ride or schooling session, but then my lovely mare whilst intelligent is a little older and stiff and not at all keen on being schooled, but show her a jump and her eyes light up and she would jump her heart out for you.
They are all so different and like humans the key is finding out what they enjoy and mixing it up.
A super trainable horse is a very sought after one, not a common occurence imo. Yours may just not enjoy competing.
 
I think (and this is where some more competitive riders may disagree) that there is only so much training you can do with a horse who clearly does not enjoy it...you can only go so far and there will come a time where you have to think either - this horse does not have the temperment to compete to the level you want and therefore take the pressure off and do the things he does enjoy peppered with the school work he does not. Or sell him to someone who does what he wants to do.
It's a hard decision to make but you and he cannot be happy if you are working against the tide to get him going correctly and he would rather be in field/out hacking or whatever.
Perhaps as he gets older his temperment may change slightly but in my experience those horses who are idle or evade are those which stay that way unless introduced to something they like or by making ridden work more exciting for them.

But for now (as others have said) perhaps cut down his workload a bit, you say he is getting bored....how is he showing this? Perhaps stick to once a day with lots of hacking in all paces, you can school on your hack, asking for leg yeild etc. Mess around in the school a bit too, there's nothing wrong with pretending you are 13 and doing bending and other 'games'.....personally I love this and it means your horse doesn't always see the areana as somewhere he has to get down to hard work.

Good luck!
 
I have the same issues (although without the same talent)!

We’re just getting the hang of it and schooling is kept short, I try not to lunge him as he finds it boring, we hack out alone but also in company, hacking alone I do a bit of schooling, in the school I try not to school for more than 40mins MAX, I get in lots of transitions (every letter basically we do a transition) he gets lots of praise and reward (I’ve been known to school over jumps with a handful of pony nuts in my pocket!). At the moment *touch wood* I think we’ve cracked schooling and he’s now off the leg and forwards going 99% of the time.


I also avoid lunging as my horse finds it very boring.

What about free schooling? Free jumping?
 
showqa said:
Here's the thing - I've had a good chat today with my RI about my horse, with whom I'm getting increasingly frustrated. He has a lot of ability, a lot of presence, and character BUT a very poor work ethic. His concentration is incosistent, often regardless as to what I do, and even my RI agrees that he is a very difficult horse to ride, quite awkward and yes - very frustrating. Now he'll stay with me forever because I do love the horse to bits, but when does the point come when you realise that you're not going to progress much further because of that lack of work ethic? Is it possible to instil work ethic? Is there any point in constantly beavering away at something that perhaps will never really happen? Thanks.
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A horse that doesn't want to work for whatever reason is never going to be a joy to ride. Unfortunately it is often those that have the most potential that are this way. However, you need to rule out physical causes for such behaviour. We had a similar case with a fabulous mare that arrived on my yard. It turns out she had gastric ulcers. She had no other symptoms other than just not giving her all, being nappy, not paying attention, not working properly through her back, you name it. She had NO other symptoms of ulcers at all. It led to her being labeled as having a bad attitude to work. But £6 k of investigations later, and ulcers were found. Now she is much better, though I still don't think she is 100% happy about working.
 
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