Horse with rock solid soles: advice please?...please? :)

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Shabby_Chic

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Afternoon :)

Am having minor crisis / total lack of faith in self regarding fixing my mares solid soles! (and my decision to not shoe her :( )

Background: Fine 16hh WBxTB 11yo mare, told she always had full set of shoes but she came without as hadn't been competed/worked since having foal a year previously, made decision to keep her barefoot if she was happy for the 6 weeks i would only be walking her when getting her going again (as seemed a bit daft at the time getting farrier out & shoes on as she'd had a trim all over less than 3 days before arriving but at the time i had every intention of getting farrier out as soon as we moved on from walking). 3 months later & still no shoes as i quite honestly think she is happier without & her hooves have been kept looking lovely by some road work on hacks but I cannot wear down/soften her soles (concrete has nothing on these)!!

I have stables & field from a farrier who is a super lovely chappy who really cares for horses and knows his stuff and he's been checking her hooves for me weekly (what a lucky lady!) having made decision to keep her barefoot as she is still happy enough now we're starting to work/jump/school and no cracks/bruises/heat/inflammation/infection/tenderness in sight *touch wood*

NOW, have consulted him lots regarding her super hard soles and he's had a go at them with a paring knife & rasp but it didn't touch them! THEY ARE ROCK SOLID!!! He's told me to ignore the few snide comments I've been on the receiving end of from old time horsey people re. not putting shoes on as her hooves are always a lovely temperature and they've been kept naturally 'short' and she's as happy as can be! He's also done the pincer test on them a few times (to reassure me) and she never flinches an inch or cares and he says I'm worrying about nothing here :/ He suggested if she's happy without shoes then it's better for her tootsies anyway and I'm probably doing better wearing down the soles with hacks than i could hope to achieve with shoes on BUT I'm loosing faith in my decision making and now not convinced :( I oil them twice daily an no real improvement in softening over 3 months....

I know this is an absolute ESSAY and a bit garbled but really hoping there is somebody out there with some advice...PLEASE? (Landlord/farrier suggested trying a lanolin based moisturiser for her soles but i can't find any in any of my local 4 tack/feed places). Or if no advice then reassurance from a similar situation (newly barefoot horse/hard soles/BOTH!) would be loverly ;)

I'm feeling a little defensive over my decision to not shoe her as we've always shod everything else and this is new for me to not just automatically stick shoes on so please, anybody else wanting to give me an ear bashing re. that topic can you wait in line? All other comments very very gratefully received :D
 
I have never had a barefoot horse but my boy has incredibly hard soles (with shoes on!) and kevin Bakon the one with the black lid (has tar in so seems to stay on hoof for longer - didnt make them harder!) has really helped :)
 
Hi there. I'm very new to this barefoot lark, but I thought that hard soles is a good thing?! Why would you want to soften them?
 
Ditto above - I thought the harder the better.

Reading a book by Pete Ramey at the moment and I think he says we don't know what a barefoot hoof should look like because a lot of people are so used to a shoed horse which would have soft soles etc. It is a good book, haven't finished it yet but worth a read?
 
i know nothing about barefoot! I've tried researching it and looking at a few forums but it often seems like more of a religion and scares me slightly :/ ...my only concern was the happiness of my horse and her health. BUT onto the real bit, softening them is a bit wrong...not quite sure what i mean but more along the lines of just getting them to the point they could be looked at without needing a pneumatic drill ;)
 
Is your horse growing a tin can foot? Has the frog become buried?

You may be worrying about nothing. The soles should be rock hard.

Please post photos. The 25th sole on this post http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/thin-sole-thick-sole.html is of a foot that works a lot on tarmac.

If the foot going 'tin can' then it is easy enough for a good farrier or trimmer to deal with. You may want to make their life and your horse's life easier by soaking the foot prior to trimming.

No need for creams/moisturisers etc - especially on the bottom of the foot.
 
letrec_fan said:
Ditto above - I thought the harder the better.

Reading a book by Pete Ramey at the moment and I think he says we don't know what a barefoot hoof should look like because a lot of people are so used to a shoed horse which would have soft soles etc. It is a good book, haven't finished it yet but worth a read?
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Ooh, this sounds good! I'm liking hearing people say i have nothing to worry about! I think it's because I've always been surrounded by shod horses with squishy soles that I think hers are on the bad side of hard...is there such a thing?

Ps...sourcing a copy of the book from amazon as we speak! :) Thank you
 
LucyPriory said:
Please post photos. The 25th sole on this post http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/01/thin-sole-thick-sole.html is of a foot that works a lot on tarmac.
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Blimey, that 'thick enough getting ready to exfoliate' photo looks quite similar i think (without rushing down to the field to compare) Is that an ok hoof? There's no tin can situation going on I don't think! Not sure about the buried frog bit, it's not becoming encased in anything, it's just there...with grooves to either side i pick out? Definitely time for photo's a feel, I'll take some when i feet her tonight and upload them if i can figure out how :p
 
Shabby_Chic said:
Blimey, that 'thick enough getting ready to exfoliate' photo looks quite similar i think (without rushing down to the field to compare) Is that an ok hoof? There's no tin can situation going on I don't think! Not sure about the buried frog bit, it's not becoming encased in anything, it's just there...with grooves to either side i pick out? Definitely time for photo's a feel, I'll take some when i feet her tonight and upload them if i can figure out how :p
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Yes that foot was fine :-)

If you can't upload the photo to the forum pm me
 
I knew a horse who had been shod for 6 years, and the lady took his shoes off. She hacked him for hours on roads, up the stoney paths around the yard, through the rough plantations.
Not one crack, bruise, sore/hot hoof in sight. He had feet like concrete. He never had any problems so your mare should be fine. If you farrier says you are worrying over nothing, her feet look good and hard and she isn't lame with bruises or hot feet I would just thank my lucky stars and start counting the money you are saving :D
 
My mares feet are rock solid too but farrier and I have never worried about it, other than he's loving her going barefoot at the moment as he can barely get nails into her foot in the summer as her feet are so hard the nails bend! Almost went through a whole box once! She does extremely well barefoot and I would love her to stay that way but hunting in the winter on flints means she gets footy so has to have them back on for winter.
 
Ella19 said:
My mares feet are rock solid too but farrier and I have never worried about it, other than he's loving her going barefoot at the moment as he can barely get nails into her foot in the summer as her feet are so hard the nails bend! Almost went through a whole box once! She does extremely well barefoot and I would love her to stay that way but hunting in the winter on flints means she gets footy so has to have them back on for winter.
Click to expand...

Sounds ideal :) good on you, that's sensible horsemanship if ever I saw it.
 
Shabby_Chic said:
Afternoon :)

Am having minor crisis / total lack of faith in self regarding fixing my mares solid soles! (and my decision to not shoe her :( )

Background: Fine 16hh WBxTB 11yo mare, told she always had full set of shoes but she came without as hadn't been competed/worked since having foal a year previously, made decision to keep her barefoot if she was happy for the 6 weeks i would only be walking her when getting her going again (as seemed a bit daft at the time getting farrier out & shoes on as she'd had a trim all over less than 3 days before arriving but at the time i had every intention of getting farrier out as soon as we moved on from walking). 3 months later & still no shoes as i quite honestly think she is happier without & her hooves have been kept looking lovely by some road work on hacks but I cannot wear down/soften her soles (concrete has nothing on these)!!

I have stables & field from a farrier who is a super lovely chappy who really cares for horses and knows his stuff and he's been checking her hooves for me weekly (what a lucky lady!) having made decision to keep her barefoot as she is still happy enough now we're starting to work/jump/school and no cracks/bruises/heat/inflammation/infection/tenderness in sight *touch wood*

NOW, have consulted him lots regarding her super hard soles and he's had a go at them with a paring knife & rasp but it didn't touch them! THEY ARE ROCK SOLID!!! He's told me to ignore the few snide comments I've been on the receiving end of from old time horsey people re. not putting shoes on as her hooves are always a lovely temperature and they've been kept naturally 'short' and she's as happy as can be! He's also done the pincer test on them a few times (to reassure me) and she never flinches an inch or cares and he says I'm worrying about nothing here :/ He suggested if she's happy without shoes then it's better for her tootsies anyway and I'm probably doing better wearing down the soles with hacks than i could hope to achieve with shoes on BUT I'm loosing faith in my decision making and now not convinced :( I oil them twice daily an no real improvement in softening over 3 months....

I know this is an absolute ESSAY and a bit garbled but really hoping there is somebody out there with some advice...PLEASE? (Landlord/farrier suggested trying a lanolin based moisturiser for her soles but i can't find any in any of my local 4 tack/feed places). Or if no advice then reassurance from a similar situation (newly barefoot horse/hard soles/BOTH!) would be loverly ;)

I'm feeling a little defensive over my decision to not shoe her as we've always shod everything else and this is new for me to not just automatically stick shoes on so please, anybody else wanting to give me an ear bashing re. that topic can you wait in line? All other comments very very gratefully received :D
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hi, our pony had very same problem her soles did not shed they were getting very thick so i got a piece of carpet and made her stand on it and kept her feet soaked on it for an hour a day within 2 weeks my farrier came and trimmed and took of all the hard sole it was that simple now she has normal soles, i still soak them but not for that long :)
 
OP think - if your horse had soft soles and trod on a stone then it would hurt her and she would go "ow."

If she treds on a stone with hard feet she won't feel it. A horse without shoes can have feet that are so hard that when they walk on concrete their feet "ring" almost as much as if they were in metal shoes. That is good!

If the farrier used hoof testers and she didn't flinch that is excellent. Just go by how she is to ride and what the farrier says.
 
My mare's soles are super hard at the moment (both barefoot), you tap their soles and frogs with a hoof pick and it's like hitting solid concrete.
 
Just think yourself lucky she has such good feet and if your farrier is happy with them and he knows his job, why aren't you happy. 3 of my horses are barefoot, the 4th is shod as dicky feet.
 
Sounds like she has fab feet! My lady is shod as needs studholes for jumping and my farrier hot-shoes her. He often has to use a blowtorch to soften the horn a bit for paring and raves about how great her feet are. Mine is fine in terms of moisture levels.
 
Phew, thank you H&H forumites :) I knew I'd get a balanced response here, so glad it's not the one telling me I'm damaging my horse :( I think i was doubting myself as her previous owner was very pushy about her being shod and a few people i otherwise love, respect and have known a good many years made the odd comment about her being unshod...usually along the lines of "Oh, you don't have any shoes on, she must have good feet" but not making eye contact avec moi and being quite disdainful...I don't know why i let it get to me! But i really did start to question myself :confused: thinking her soles being so hard was a bad thing as I'd never seen any like it (what a numpty) and due to me not shoeing her (which it may be ...but it's ok as it's a good thing!)
I'm still going to take pictures of her hoofypegs and try to upload for anybody who has a second to comment and is experienced at barefoot/self maintenance/general horsey know-it-all but having read through all your lovely replies I am feeling reassured and loving my baby a little bit more for being so bloomin perfect (if that was possible) :D
She's a once in a lifetime sort and she's a bit of a loopy lady but we fit together like Lady and the Tramp (guess who's who :rolleyes:) twas breaking me up a little bit thinking i could be doing the wrong thing for her!
 
amage said:
Sounds like she has fab feet! My lady is shod as needs studholes for jumping and my farrier hot-shoes her. He often has to use a blowtorch to soften the horn a bit for paring and raves about how great her feet are. Mine is fine in terms of moisture levels.
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I think this will have to be my next decision...how far can letting her be as natural as possible still be good 'parenting'? She was bought to be a happy hacker/jumper as and when she fancied it...and she does love jumping! Comfort zone around the 1.2m mark and quite delightful breeding (a very successfully daddy :p)...what height do you jump yours at? When do you think I'll have to put shoes/studs on her to make it safe to jump higher?
 
Shabby_Chic said:
what height do you jump yours at? When do you think I'll have to put shoes/studs on her to make it safe to jump higher?
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Before a career break to have a foal my girl was jumping 1.30-1.35m but will most likely keep her at 1.10-1.20 now as she loves fun classes and is a money maker at this level! I do school at home without studs but always stud for shows as want that bit of security against the clock and she is 15 now and always studded until I got her at 9 so not about to start changing things now! A friend of mine did jump a horse at 1.35 level competitively with no studs....it can be done. The other reason I keep my mare shod is that it took us a long long time to get her feet so good and she did used to have crap feet! it comes down to personal preference really and how comfortable your horse feels!
 
amage said:
it comes down to personal preference really and how comfortable your horse feels!
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Don't think my hos would know the difference! She's a bit footy on flints so i tend to give her her head on those bits and let her pick the route, 5 seconds after leaving the flints she's prancing around like a fairy again! may have to trial and error on the jumping situation...obv. don't want her to damage herself but going on what we've jumped thus far she doesn't give a scooby doo about being shoe/studless and is incredibly good with her feet over any jump...we shall have to see :) thanks for replying!
 
The Rockley Farm website might reassure you about your jumping and other things. http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/RockleyFarm/Home.html
Sometimes "thick" soles are false sole that needs to shed. This can be caused by the horse's hoof compensating for poor hoof balance, and they will lay down thicker sole in some parts of their hoof than others. That's not always the case, so don't worry. Look at the barefoot sites and get a mental picture of what the "good" hooves look like. They will have concavity, so there won't be a flat appearance right across the bottom of the hoof. The frog will be distinct and wide and not cracked.
I've recently started to use a ver good trimmer who has carefully explained all of this to me. My horse always appeared to have strangely shaped and twisted feet and everyone told me that was just the way he was. 3 trims on his hooves look almost normal, he's moving better, and lumps of false sole are shedding off naturally, giving his hooves real concavity and allowing his frogs to expand. There isn't any need for the trimmer to actually carve the sole, it's coming away of it's own accord because of the way his hooves are being looked after, she might just encourage a bit off that is getting loose.
I will be expecting the sole in his hooves to be a little bit tender during this process (but not to make him sore, and so far he's still rock crunching!). The I'd expect his soles to be nice and tough and hard and I don't think I'd be worrying about soaking his feet for a farrier/trimmer visit. None of my trimmers have ever asked for feet to be softened in any way, they just swear smugly sometimes about the hooves being rock hard, but obviously that's something they are quite happy about.
 
Thanks for that link Tinypony, Not quite sure what to make of it all though tbh... :confused: The rehabilitated horses don't give two hoots about those stones but even though my horses soles are rock solid she's still footy on some surfaces... Am i missing something? Although having said that when she first came to me she would NOT walk on driveway gravel which she will now without a problem but most of our bridleways are flinted round here and she gets very footy on those.

I managed some pictures, sorry they've taken so long *dang blasted neighbours with cattle who they can't keep in a field**sigh*. I only have pictures on one hoof as I was mid photo of the 2nd hoof & the donkey who lives with us took that moment in time to jump/barge through her electric fencing and scare my horse witless and subsequently send me flying into the wall! YAYYY

Oh bottoms, now I've said that the way i though you uploaded a picture isn't quite so simple...does it have to already be on the internet? Is it easier to PM it to you LucyPriory?
 
Shabby_Chic said:
Thanks for that link Tinypony, Not quite sure what to make of it all though tbh... :confused: The rehabilitated horses don't give two hoots about those stones but even though my horses soles are rock solid she's still footy on some surfaces... Am i missing something? Although having said that when she first came to me she would NOT walk on driveway gravel which she will now without a problem but most of our bridleways are flinted round here and she gets very footy on those.

I managed some pictures, sorry they've taken so long *dang blasted neighbours with cattle who they can't keep in a field**sigh*. I only have pictures on one hoof as I was mid photo of the 2nd hoof & the donkey who lives with us took that moment in time to jump/barge through her electric fencing and scare my horse witless and subsequently send me flying into the wall! YAYYY

Oh bottoms, now I've said that the way i though you uploaded a picture isn't quite so simple...does it have to already be on the internet? Is it easier to PM it to you LucyPriory?
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If you open a photobucket account and upload them onto there, you can copy the IMG code and paste it to your post and it will come up :)
 
Shabby_Chic if you pm me I'll give you an email you can send them to. I've never learnt how to upload pictures to here either......... :-) or do proper smileys
 
LucyPriory said:
Shabby_Chic if you pm me I'll give you an email you can send them to. I've never learnt how to upload pictures to here either......... :-) or do proper smileys
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I had to ask TFC about forum smilies.

User profile - quick links - Miscellaneous options - Message editor interface (bottom of page) - drop down and click on Standard editor-Extra formatting controls. Save changes or whatever it says.

Photos. Photobucket or similar acount, copy and paste IMG tag to your message. That works on other forums though I haven't posted pics on here.
 
Yes, please do try to post it on here vua photobucket, its really interesting for lots of us and of course you will get advice from lots of different sources as you have already discovered ;)

Lucky you having such a helpful landlord! I guess if you're interested in keeping her shoeless the next natural thing to do from the barefoot point of view would be to look at her diet in detail (specifically at vitamin and mineral balance). Googe forage plus and sarah braithwaite, or rockley farm's website may have more info on it too.
 
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