Horse without passport at 11??

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chocolate86

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Im looking at an 11year old mare, who has been a broodmare but she hasnt got a passport, her owner has the paper work to send off but has only just it and not had time. Apparently her passport was lost previously and she needs a new one. I know I cant travel her without a passport so not sure if oter people might have ideas on lost passports or general comments?!?
 
If she's been used as a broodmare I assume she is register with a breed society? They should be able to reissue a passport with ease and they will have the age and previous owners details on record. The only items on my mares passport that the Arab society don't have a record of are vaccinations so you would have to start from scratch with that unless they can prove via vet records that she has been vaccinated.

I'm not sure what else would appear on a passport that would indicate medical issues that you should be aware of, I'm going to watch this post with intrigue as I have no idea why it would be a massive problem.
 
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We dont have one......and the horse is 13....

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But why on earth not?
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You've certainly been on here long enough to know that all horses should have one. Slapped wrists for you for ignoring the law.
 
Hi,
I've come across this no passport excuse recently. I still bought the pony in this case tho. I was told they had lost the passport, but I phoned the passport agency and was told that when applying for a replacement passport there is a question box to tick if there has been a passport already that has been lost, usually you would tick that and the new passport will say duplicate when it arrives. I think some people say they have lost passports so they can change the age of the horse.
Hope this makes sense.
 
No excuse really, other than it has never been made an issue. Our vets have never asked for it! I must just say I was surprised that so many people here believe them to be so important - I think the whole thing has been a farce from start to finish. Most people I know in RL, especially with non-competing horses, have never bothered to get one.
 
The only reason I need one is to move her and I just spoke to defra they say its illegal to sell without a passport. I dont want to miss out this lovely mare but something just isnt right about the passport so probably going to get the current owner to send off for a new passport. The owner seem legite as ive spoken to the vet who did her tetanus vacc in feb and the back person who saw her in april, she had a slight hip difference (ie one was stiff and a marginally higher) but all sorted now through physio and manipulation. hmm.....
 
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No excuse really, other than it has never been made an issue. Our vets have never asked for it! I must just say I was surprised that so many people here believe them to be so important - I think the whole thing has been a farce from start to finish. Most people I know in RL, especially with non-competing horses, have never bothered to get one.

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I think the whole thing has been a farce too but it's not helped by your (and lots of others no doubt) attitude to it either.
Part of the passport thing was to be able to gauge how many horses there are in the country, let alone the medicine aspect, which in turn, in theory, should give horse owners a bit more bargaining power when it comes to decisions that affect us, namely byways, roads and the like. If half the horse population is missing because mindless people can't be bothered to do as they're asked, namely have a passport for each horse, then they can't go moaning at the authorities for not supplying or upkeeping something; they only have themselves to blame, while the rest of us who have been law abiding citizens (in this case at least!) are going without because people like you can't get of their backsides in gear to comply with a law. Is it no wonder we get cross when you can't be arsed to get a passport? You're part of the reason it's a mockery.

At the same time, vets aren't helping because by now everyone should have their vaccination details inside the passport, if they're still filling in just the old style vacc' cards then they need to make a stink with the owner too, or surely they could be liable for not completing the passport. What a damn nightmare it's all turning out to be.

OP: Sorry, going away from your post there but can you ask the old owner to apply for the passport but include that the horse has been sold and the new owner is you as that way it will get sent straight to you and you won't have to send it back yet again to have your name included which you are meant to do within 30 days of change of ownership I believe? Hope it doesn't stop you getting the horse though.
 
Ah well. We can agree to disagree on the matter.
Personally, I cannot imagine how they ever thought the passport law would work. What about the thousands of gypsy horses across the UK? I'll bet they dont each have a little bit of paper to their name! There are a hundred and one loopholes surrounding the passport issue, and as much as I appreciate that the intentions surrounding the legislation were good and honorable, there is no way it will ever work 100%. As you say, perhaps vets should be the ones to kick up a stink and say, sorry, no passport, no vaccs! But I cant see them doing that. My vet asked me back in April, 'do you have her passport for me to stamp?' I told him I only have her vacs certificate, and he said it wasnt a problem. In fact I think he laughed, and said something to the effect of, 'so you dont have one either?!'
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If you don't have a passport by 1st July 2009 then you will have to have your horse microchipped with an approved micro-chip before a passport can be applied for an issued.

All foals will have to be micro-chipped before they are 6 months old after July 1st 2009
 
I would be suspicious and I don't understand why someone selling horse would not have got the passport and details ready first?

You don't know if that horse is stolen or anything and what do you think will happen then when/if the horse is traced to you? You would not be entitled to get your purchase money back for a start. Also, if you did happen to get stopped en route (which is unlikely but) you could well be fined if you can not produce a valid passport.
 
Vets are not responsible for policing passports.

It is the Fair Strandard Trading Officers that are. They are the people that can ask to see your horses passports.

Passports where only issued as a result of European Legislation to allow horses in Great Britain to continue to be allowed to be prescribed certain medication including drugs such as Bute.

A national register of horses will start next year when compulsorary micro-chipping of horses is introduced (see above post).
 
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If you don't have a passport by 1st July 2009 then you will have to have your horse microchipped with an approved micro-chip before a passport can be applied for an issued.

All foals will have to be micro-chipped before they are 6 months old after July 1st 2009

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I quite agree with this Peter and it will be fine for us law abiding sorts, in fact many of us are doing this already, but as MissElz said before, the ones that couldn't give a damn and don't comply are the sorts that won't apply for passports in the first place; they will only come unstuck if they try to sell stock, so those are going to let it all down. It needs to be illegal to buy without a passport not just selling wise, people might get their backsides in gear a bit better then.
It's a difficult thing to sort but until every vet refuses to do vacc's unless the passport is present (I'd draw the line at with holding desperate treatment of course) each show, no matter how small, requires to see passports for each entry, instructors have to see the passport and so on, unless we can get blanket coverage that horses without passports will not be tolerated, we're on a losing wicket. If the law gets ignored this much, I can well see the day when all horses will have to be licensed/taxed and if they're not they're confiscated and if it comes to that, we know who to blame. It's such a simple thing to do and can be done in most cases for less than £25, usually discounts for 3 or more; there is no excuse at all.
 
MFH_09 - It may seem bizarre for me to say that I agree with you, but I do. The reason we have not bothered to get a passport before now is simple - we havent had to. If it were both compulsory and enforced (with emphasis on the latter) to produce a passport for unafilliated competitions, for riding club sessions, for vaccination purposes and so on, then we would undoubtedly have got one. But we have not competed affiliated since 2003 (pre-passport legislation), we rarely transport Ellie anywhere (perhaps three local shows in a year?), we never wish to breed from her, and she will never, ever be sold. So....why? Why spend an unnecessary £25 for a passport, as well as having to fork out to pay the vet to come out and re-draw the horse, even though there is already a perfectly good drawing of her on her vaccination certificate?
 
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MFH_09 - It may seem bizarre for me to say that I agree with you, but I do. The reason we have not bothered to get a passport before now is simple - we havent had to. If it were both compulsory and enforced (with emphasis on the latter) to produce a passport for unafilliated competitions, for riding club sessions, for vaccination purposes and so on, then we would undoubtedly have got one.

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Exactly, it should have been made compulsory at the very start then we wouldn't still be having these problems. (Nice to agree though!)

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Why spend an unnecessary £25 for a passport, as well as having to fork out to pay the vet to come out and re-draw the horse, even though there is already a perfectly good drawing of her on her vaccination certificate?

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I think you'll find that as long as a vet did your original vaccination card sketch, then that will be allowed to be used; certainly SHB do that.. so you would only need to complete a form, many of which you can get on-line.
 
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I think you'll find that as long as a vet did your original vaccination card sketch, then that will be allowed to be used; certainly SHB do that.. so you would only need to complete a form, many of which you can get on-line.

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That's what I was led to believe, but the report in last week's H&H ('Passport forgeries are rife' claim) would suggest otherwise...

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"I just read it wrongly. We transferred the details from vaccination cards onto passports." She claims the practice is commonplace among horse owners and dealers...."The vet was fine about it and there are heaps of people doing it."

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So....considering she was prosecuted, maybe not....
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This is taken from the application form to register with SHB

"if an identical chart has been completed previously for this horse by a Veterinary Surgeon then that document will accepted in place of the chart overleaf. Photocopies will not be accepted."

I think where that dealer went wrong is to have done it herself, not had her vet do it officially. Besides, if the passport is kosher, then the vaccination card should have been attached into the passport by the issuers so there would have been no need to transfer anything at all. I actually know the vet involved reasonably well!
 
Ah ok then. Well that makes it easier financially, certainly! I'm just discussing it with Mum as well - when you pay your money to these various societies/organisations that are offering a passport service, where does your money actually go? It's another thing to think about! I think if we could all be assured that our £25 goes towards providing better facilities/services for us all, then we wouldnt have such a problem with paying up and getting it sorted. But it's a bit like the ludicrous charges on human passports - where does that money go?
 
Do the BHS do passports as if so, at least you'd know the money would be put to better use than just going into the coffers of a firm? I know the Horse Passport Agency used to have a horse in training in their name, don't know if that is still happening but I do know I would object to that if it was my money helping finance that!
 
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