Horse won’t trot!

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littlelessbloom

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So I have a 7 year old WB x TB on loan and everything has been going well, but out of the blue, he just stopped wanting to trot in the school. Walk is fine but when I ask for trot, he flings his head around, threatens to rear/bunny hump, pulls his head to the left and just generally is not happy. He will occasionally trot a couple of strides but then stop (I’m in part guessing this is because my aids come off as I’m just relieved he’s trotted).

He is fine to trot on the lunge and in hand and completely sound. Not done any hacking since he’s been like this as our hacking isn’t very good.

He lives an ulcer-friendly lifestyle but a friend says it could be ulcers? So I have him booked in for a scope this week. But I’m just wondering if it could be anything else - instead of or as well as.

I’ve noticed he’s quite snatchy with his back legs when I initially pick them up but if I hold them, he will relax. His left is worse than his right. Not sure if that’s relevant.

Teeth were done before Christmas and the saddle fitter came in November. Physio is due out in the next few weeks.

I’m not planning on riding until we get the all-clear or if the physio wants to see him under saddle.
 
Any heat anywhere?

The snatchy-ness in hind legs might be a sign of an issue somewhere; I'd personally suspect sacro-iliac with this type of response.

Re. the scoping, BEFORE you do this I'd be inclined to get vet out for a chat around any possible symptoms tbh rather than go straight in there; not being derogatory to the "friend", but unless she/he's a vet then I wouldn't be scoping at this present time! Scoping isn't pleasant for them even accepting they're sedated and you don't want to do it unless you really really have to do you. So I'd be inclined to postpone this for now.

Think good idea yes you should rest him until the vet and/or physio has been.
 
How long have you had him, and have you spoken to the owner? They may be able to help. The simple answer is to rule out physical causes (start with the vet). If they don't find anything then you can look at riding and behavioural causes. It may be a form of napping, but don't try to ride through this until you're as sure as possible that he's comfortable.
 
I think you should be speaking to the owner before you ho any further. Do they have any involvement with the horse ? I trust they know this is happening ?
 
No heat - I have literally been feeling his legs three/four times a day and feeling his back twice a day!

I’ve had him since October. I messaged his owners and they said he’s never done this before. They’re currently travelling in Asia/Australia so they can’t come and see him in person. They said to do what I think is necessary and keep them updated
 
I would agree that pain is a distinct possibility. A second opinion on the saddle fit might be useful. Bear in mind that if ulcers are found they are almost always secondary to another problem, usually muscloskeletal. But, in the meantime, will he trot on a long rein? Are you maybe inadvertently blocking him? Some horses (quite rightly) won't put up with being asked to go and stop at the same time.
 
Have you carefully checked his numnah/saddle cloth? One of mine is very sensitive about anything to do with his saddle. I took me ages to find the right combination for him and he was fine for months. One day out of the blue he went back to his old behaviour - napping, threatening to buck - and thankfully I quickly realised there was a little bit of stabby straw stuck in his wool numnah. It was really well buried, I only found it by running my hand over the wool. Removed it and he is back to his usual self!
 
Burnttoast said:
I would agree that pain is a distinct possibility. A second opinion on the saddle fit might be useful. Bear in mind that if ulcers are found they are almost always secondary to another problem, usually muscloskeletal. But, in the meantime, will he trot on a long rein? Are you maybe inadvertently blocking him? Some horses (quite rightly) won't put up with being asked to go and stop at the same time.
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I haven’t tried trotting him on a long rein as to be honest I was worried he’d go up the last time I rode him. I don’t ride with a short rein but I do think that I am potentially blocking him because I’m worried of what he will do - i.e. bronc me off or rear up!
 
soloequestrian said:
Have you carefully checked his numnah/saddle cloth? One of mine is very sensitive about anything to do with his saddle. I took me ages to find the right combination for him and he was fine for months. One day out of the blue he went back to his old behaviour - napping, threatening to buck - and thankfully I quickly realised there was a little bit of stabby straw stuck in his wool numnah. It was really well buried, I only found it by running my hand over the wool. Removed it and he is back to his usual self!
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I haven’t but I know he is super sensitive as his saddle had a small indent in it from the saddle racks and he wasn’t happy - not to this extent but he was trotting around like a camel until I got the saddle fitter out. However, I have lunged and long-reined him in his saddle and he’s been fine. It’s honestly just when I’m on him
 
Can you pop someone else on him just to check you aren't blocking him unintentionally?

I'd probably ask the vet to watch him being ridden (or grab a video) because a horse that is fine on the lunge but not under saddle needs to be assessed under saddle. I changed vets a few years back and the new one said she would have guessed a hind suspensory issue just from my description of issues under saddle (& I'd had a battle with the old vets to scan those legs too...)
 
littlelessbloom said:
I haven’t but I know he is super sensitive as his saddle had a small indent in it from the saddle racks and he wasn’t happy - not to this extent but he was trotting around like a camel until I got the saddle fitter out. However, I have lunged and long-reined him in his saddle and he’s been fine. It’s honestly just when I’m on him
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The weight of the saddle when lunging might not affect him, but perhaps your weight on it makes the difference. Are the indents still there? Based on what you said here I would get a second opinion on the saddle.
 
Out of the blue means pain. Get vet to do a full work up rather than just straight in for scoping, he may have a twinge somewhere. I assume farrier is happy with all hooves?
 
I'd be inclined to pop someone else on him as well, provided you know someone who is confident and also sympathetic. You don't want someone to 'ride him through' the issue, that doesn't tell you anything. You just need to know if he repeats the behaviour with a relaxed rider who is letting him go forward. Agree the vet needs to see him perform this behaviour, not just assess on the ground.
 
Does he offer trot either when working at liberty, or loose in the field? Does he trot on the lunge with no tack? On the lunge with his saddle? Whilst being long-reined? Being long-reined in his saddle? In hand? In hand with his saddle?

There’s so many things to check first, before just chucking another rider on.

If he trots happily without his tack, or in tack but with no weight, then that gives you a better starting point for the next step, which is to call a vet and do a full soundness work up.
 
Please have the vet look first. You don’t want your instructor to sit on him and work him through something only for it to get worse or for them to get on and try to work him through something and him to object by throwing your instructor out the side door.
 
fiwen30 said:
Does he offer trot either when working at liberty, or loose in the field? Does he trot on the lunge with no tack? On the lunge with his saddle? Whilst being long-reined? Being long-reined in his saddle? In hand? In hand with his saddle?

There’s so many things to check first, before just chucking another rider on.

If he trots happily without his tack, or in tack but with no weight, then that gives you a better starting point for the next step, which is to call a vet and do a full soundness work up.
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He will trot in the field, on the lunge with and without tack, in the long reins with and without tack, in-hand with and without tack. This was my friend’s reasoning for checking for ulcers as it’s when my leg goes on that he reacts
 
Mine did the ridden behaviours you are describing when she had ulcers, hock arthritis and a sore back. It really could be anything!
I would reccomend a lameness work up before a scope.
mine kept getting the ulcers back everytime we treated them because we hadnt yet found the pain source
 
littlelessbloom said:
He will trot in the field, on the lunge with and without tack, in the long reins with and without tack, in-hand with and without tack. This was my friend’s reasoning for checking for ulcers as it’s when my leg goes on that he reacts
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I would bet money on the horse being in pain . Whether it's ulcers or not is impossible to guess but the vet should do a lameness and pain evaluation before scoping.

Please DO NOT get your instructor to ride the horse. They may be able to force the horse to move despite the pain but this achieves nothing other than forcing a horse to work in pain. The horse is trying to tell you something, it's your job to listen.
Horses don't go out of their way to make life difficult, so to go to that length to refuse to trot under saddle is saying something.
 
Even if the saddle fits a previous ill-fitting saddle might have left him with sore pressure points that new saddle or a new rider are now sitting on?
 
@sbloom is good to talk to if you are wondering about the saddle but I really agree this is a pain issue. Talk to the owner and inform them you are calling a vet and why, they'll want to be up to date or might have a preferred vet.
 
We so often assume saddle fit when the issue is only seen when the horse is ridden, but having a rider's weight on board affects everything, so can show up all sorts of pain/discomfort issues. I think even saddle checks booked to try to work out if the saddle IS causing an issue can be problematic, you can't simply tick boxes by looking at the saddle static and ridden, sometimes you need to try another saddle etc, really looking at what allows the horse to really move.

I always look to musculature and posture as a first step, probably the biggest cause of actual lameness and so often at the root of ridden issues. Further down that same line you hit lameness. My "lens"/model is Balance Through Movement Method, it really sets a high bar on this stuff, way more than we usually consider in terms of what we think is "healthy" for a horse.

Vet, but bear in mind they do often don't look through this lens, and are, understandably, looking for points of pain and to treat them. You need to also look at why this discomfort/pain has developed, and remember that only already weakened tissue tends to get injured.
 
littlelessbloom said:
I haven’t but I know he is super sensitive as his saddle had a small indent in it from the saddle racks and he wasn’t happy - not to this extent but he was trotting around like a camel until I got the saddle fitter out. However, I have lunged and long-reined him in his saddle and he’s been fine. It’s honestly just when I’m on him
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That makes it sound like the saddle with weight on it is causing the problem. I would get a 2nd opinion on the saddle.
 
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