Horse won't accept contact

[chaps89]

I am going through similar with my 8 year old at the moment. I bought her just as she turned 5 but she then had 3 years of physical issues rearing their head. She's now in consistent work and it's become clear that accepting a contact is a very large hole missed in her initial education. She is fine and dandy whilst you ask nothing of her but the moment you ask her to do anything she doesn't want to the head goes up, the jaw opens and she bogs off through her outside shoulder. 2 normal instructors had been making some progress with her but I've now got a fantastic lady who is a real old fashioned horse woman who does a lot of remedial work, coming out and helping and I'm now slowly starting to see some improvement. I would suggest once physical checks are all clear that you go right back to basics with her.

 

[wkiwi]

I've lunged hundreds of young horses over the years without any problems, Common sense dictates that you lunge on a large circle, on goo going for a sensible length of time and that you DON'T CANTER. A horse will get more benefit from being lunged without the unbalancing effect of a rider.

All mine work in a snaffle and cavesson noseband as they have lovely mouths - as a result of being lunged in side reins.

There is a possibility that the person who broke this horse used a pessoa! Which grabs at the mouth with every stride

Many people have lunged horses without problems. However, biomechanics studies (was it Hilary Clayton's research? - someone on here will know) have shown that it isn't so good for young horses (who after all don't have all of their growth plates closed until 7yo) as originally thought. As I said this is personal opinion whether to lunge or not, but having ridden horses started without longreining and with longreining (whether or not lunging was included) my PERSONAL opinion is that i would infinitely prefer one started with correct longreining included. This is the reason i put it out there as a suggestion (in case the OP hadn't thought of it).
Note that a horse does not have to be lunged in side-reins to have a soft mouth. Many trainers do not use side-reins at all and some horses don't get lunged ever.
Re longreining being not the way to train a ridden horse - I agree it is not good if done wrong (ditto lunging, backing etc.) but it is only in-hand work and done by many disciplines.

 

[Cortez]

Long reining is a very good tool for teaching and advancing higher collection; it is not something that is good for training young horses, unless they are going to be used for driving or draught work. The reasons are several, but in this context the most pertinent one is that ridden horses are not primarily steered with the reins; it is not possible to get horses going forwards enough on the long reins to establish the vital connection between leg/seat/forwards and the hand. I grew up in the tradition of always "wearing out a set of shoes" by long reining before backing, and I have also worked in the tradition of reserving long reins for the High School. The former does not produce horses which go forwards to the hand and understand the connexion.

 

[Tnavas]

Many people have lunged horses without problems. However, biomechanics studies (was it Hilary Clayton's research? - someone on here will know) have shown that it isn't so good for young horses (who after all don't have all of their growth plates closed until 7yo) as originally thought. As I said this is personal opinion whether to lunge or not, but having ridden horses started without longreining and with longreining (whether or not lunging was included) my PERSONAL opinion is that i would infinitely prefer one started with correct longreining included. This is the reason i put it out there as a suggestion (in case the OP hadn't thought of it).
Note that a horse does not have to be lunged in side-reins to have a soft mouth. Many trainers do not use side-reins at all and some horses don't get lunged ever.
Re longreining being not the way to train a ridden horse - I agree it is not good if done wrong (ditto lunging, backing etc.) but it is only in-hand work and done by many disciplines.

If you teach the young horse to lunge correctly it will be evenly balanced on all four legs therefore minimal stress on limbs. The precious limbs don't have to deal with the unbalancing effect of the rider which does cause problems. Put a toddler on your shoulders and try to run around perfectly balanced.
It's always been known that lunging is a strain on young horses - nothing new! It's the quality of the work which is important. Many people who lunge do it badly, those that do it well reap the reward.

Lunging is a skill that takes time to learn and practise, it's not boring working a horse well on the lunge. I love it. My current horse is used to teach my PC H students to lunge, they are amazed at the control they have and how much fun they have lunging her.

 

[wkiwi]

If you teach the young horse to lunge correctly it will be evenly balanced on all four legs therefore minimal stress on limbs. The precious limbs don't have to deal with the unbalancing effect of the rider which does cause problems. Put a toddler on your shoulders and try to run around perfectly balanced.
It's always been known that lunging is a strain on young horses - nothing new! It's the quality of the work which is important..

that sounds great. Do you have any research to show how long it takes for the young horse to lunge evenly balanced on all four legs (with a skilled trainer of course).

 

[Tnavas]

that sounds great. Do you have any research to show how long it takes for the young horse to lunge evenly balanced on all four legs (with a skilled trainer of course).

Varies from horse to horse and how athletic they are. I spend months on the lunge before riding mine. They are taught in walk only until obedient, they have to be able to respond immediately to instructions to increase or decrease pace. Only when they are obedient in walk do I go on to trot, They are not allowed to race around being an idiot. If like that I go straight back to leading/lunging from close by, with me also walking a big circle. Then gradually allow them out again on a longer line. Lunging is no different to ridden schooling, you take time, repeat and you don't allow unacceptable behaviour. Once you have good basic control then you put on the side reins.
Your line to the centre of the cavesson is your outside rein and the whip your inside leg. Then you start working the horse, inside leg to outside hand. A brush of the whip behind the elbow can put the falling in horse back on the track. A flick of the whip on the hock and a squeeze of the lunge line tweaks the outside side rein and gives the horse a half halt.

I love lunging!

 

[D66]

The Spanish Riding School lunge their horses for three months before backing them. Done regularly and progressively it builds up the horses muscles for taking the weight of a rider. You won't get the same result if it's done sporadically and you expect too much speed on a small circle too soon. Their horses work intensively to a ripe old age.

They use side reins too.

 

[Cortez]

The Spanish Riding School lunge their horses for three months before backing them. Done regularly and progressively it builds up the horses muscles for taking the weight of a rider. You won't get the same result if it's done sporadically and you expect too much speed on a small circle too soon. Their horses work intensively to a ripe old age.

They use side reins too.

Exactly ^^^ There's lunging and there's lunging, 'tho....and what I see a lot of people doing is neither useful nor sensible. I wish more people were taught to lunge properly - it's not easy, it is very technical, and it is a brilliant training tool IF you know what you're doing.

 

[Tnavas]

The Spanish Riding School lunge their horses for three months before backing them. Done regularly and progressively it builds up the horses muscles for taking the weight of a rider. You won't get the same result if it's done sporadically and you expect too much speed on a small circle too soon. Their horses work intensively to a ripe old age.

They use side reins too.

I was taught to lunge by someone who had spent time training at the Spanish Riding School.

 

[wkiwi]

Sorry OP, we seemed to have hi-jacked your original post.
As you can see, there are many different opinions about schooling horses and different people have success with different methods (even the topics discussed here) and there are many different systems (e.g. natural vs classical vs other). If you go online you will find top riders in any discipline that use seemingly opposite methods, but they are all based on rewarding the horse for doing the right thing.
I would say your best bet is to discuss with your own instructor and follow their recommendations so that you have ongoing consistency. If anyone else wants to continue discussion with me about lunging vs longreining adv/disadv then I am happy to do so by pm but it will have to be tonight as i am starting a new project tomorrow.
Good luck Laura2408.

 

[JillA]

Sorry, haven't had time to read all the responses but have you tried asking from the ground? It can be very useful with horses who don't understand - stand by her head, take a rein in each hand and gently vibrate the bit until she starts to mouth it. You can teach relaxing the jaw and flexing from side to side in this way, and flexing to the sides is very helpful in learning to flex in general. Your release of pressure has to be instant though

 

[AnitaQ]

I wonder if you ever got to the bottom of your mare’s problems. Only asking as I am having the exact same problem with my youngster

 

[Hallo2012]

if she hasnt had her wolf teeth out i would get those done and not ride until out as they nearly always casue issues.

then reasses.