Horse won't jump in show arena

[TheChestnutThing]

So after 2 years of solid hard work and lots of sweat and tears and tantrums, I finally have managed to make a showjumper out of my purpose bred WB. He has a fantastic jump.
He isn't naturally forward and although it requires some work to keep him going, once he sees fences he tanks me into them. On hacks he jumps everything, in lessons he jumps everything, away lessons he jumps everything, in the show warm up he jumps everything...once in the actual show arena he literally canters to a halt.
I am exhausted by jump 3 just keeping him going. No amount of smacking and pony club kicks and growling will help. There is no contact because he gives me none. When he eventually gets to each fence he hops over never touching a pole, if he decides to jump that fence. if he decides that it is too much effort he literally canters to a halt. We are jumping 90cm at home and 70cm at shows (he is rising 6 and a late maturer).
I have had numerous professionals on at shows (whom I have literally thrown the reins at) and none have managed to get him around bar one, an ex jockey and ex event rider who beat him over the first 3 fences riding HC in 90cm and then the bloody horse went and won the accumulator class (HC though so no points or prizes) as was the only one to clear the joker.
He even does this at shows at home or shows at venues where I have lessons.
I have private lessons, so no one else around.

I have managed to get him round a few courses at a show and he has even won a few classes. I gave him 6 months off to improve his schooling and strength and forwardness.

He hunts well (have had to hunt him to get him to move forward) and will jump anything. He will happily do a showing or a dressage show.
He is very brave, not spooky, and all vet checks and tack checks have been done.
He is on the correct diet and has enough energy. Turn out in day time from 7am until 5pm and stabled at night.

Can anyone help?

 

[FfionWinnie]

Stop having private lessons and have group lessons as a starting point. The show environment must become the norm if you believe that is all that is causing this.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Stop having private lessons and have group lessons as a starting point. The show environment must become the norm if you believe that is all that is causing this.

Unfortunately group lessons are not an option for me. No one I know has group lessons and I use a travelling instructor who lives over 40km away.

However I do understand what you are saying...but why would he be fine at showing and dressage shows?

 

[BBP]

Are you trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? you used the phrase that after sweat, tears and tantrums you had managed to 'make a showjumper' out of him. Maybe the horse doesn't want to be a showjumper and his talents would be better used elsewhere? Smacking, growling and being beaten over fences doesn't sound like the horse is having much fun. Sorry, I know myself how frustrating it is when the horses ambitions don't match your own. I have changed my ambitions to match my horse's a rather than try to make him fit into what i had wanted. (I may be completely off track here and am not critisising you in any way, it just made me wonder if, purpose bred or not, this isn't what the horse is cut out for. Like me, you could force me into swimming but I would never enjoy it, it isn't my thing, but put me in a different sport and I am much happier, even if I am physically perfectly capable of swimming)

 

[FfionWinnie]

Unfortunately group lessons are not an option for me. No one I know has group lessons and I use a travelling instructor who lives over 40km away.

However I do understand what you are saying...but why would he be fine at showing and dressage shows?

Well that’s why I said, if you’re sure it’s the show environment. Personally I would be asking myself if there is something physically limiting the horse when it’s jumping and the stress of competition pushes him over the edge.

I don’t see why you can’t go to clinics with a different instructor. Doesn’t matter what the clinic is even for if it’s just to get him out in a semi busy environment and build up from there. There must be clinics and group lessons on in your area somewhere.

One thing is for sure it shouldn’t be this difficult.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

I agree it should not be difficult. There is NOTHING physical limiting the horse. He has been checked, numerous times (as what was my first port of call) and if there was he wouldn't be jumping well at lessons. It is also not a stress issue as he is fine at dressage and showing shows and super calm away from home in any environment. In fact he loves outings.

We do not have many clinics where I live and all of them are ridiculously expensive for 1 lesson. I am not putting limitations out there, I am just not prepared to pay a weeks worth of groceries for 2 people for 1 lesson.

 

[FfionWinnie]

What do you think is wrong with the horse then, it’s just being difficult for the sake of it?

Horses don’t do things for no reason. Either it’s a training issue which can only be fixed with different training to what you are currently doing or it’s a physical issue.

Just because you haven’t found what is wrong doesn’t mean there isn’t something. Something like PSSM for instance - they don’t have to be outwardly stressed to be suffering the effects of stress. My PSSM horse was never stressed but the extra effort of competing stopped her jumping and there is no way on Earth I would have let someone beat her round a course. She is a happy hacker now and I’ve got a new horse who loves to jump rather than just does it because she’s being told to. Life is good.

 

[ycbm]

I don’t see why you can’t go to clinics with a different instructor. Doesn’t matter what the clinic is even for if it’s just to get him out in a semi busy environment and build up from there. There must be clinics and group lessons on in your area somewhere.

She's in South Africa, that may make this a lot more difficult.


TCT are you jumping full courses in your training lessons? Is it possible that he is over awed by a sea of fences in the ring?

 

[Bernster]

Sounds like a complete pain in the backside! It may be fixable with a lot of time practice and patience, and maybe some dedicated prof help, and party he is still young so it could be nappy/nerves, but I'm not sure I'd be bothering in your circs. If he's fine doing other stuff, and you are 100% sure there is nothing physical, then I'd agree with Kat. I'd be changing focus and doing something you don't have to persuade him so hard him to do. Or sell him to a better suited home and get yourself a seasoned jumper.

 

[FfionWinnie]

She's in South Africa, that may make this a lot more difficult.

?

Get a group of friends to come to a venue hire she’s paid for or something and have a fun day. If there are competitions there must be venues. You’ve got to think outside the box not keep trying to stuff the same stuff in the same too small box!

 

[Shay]

Smacking and growling won't work - you are only confirming that the show environment is unpleasant for him. A different instructor might help - but he has clearly shut down at jumping shows. I can think of a couple of possibilities.

He's young and green. He backed off out of fear and got smacked - confirming to him that his fear is genuine. Perhaps in lessons, training and warm up you are more forgiving of him being green? Quite understandable. A show environment is different. You may have sat a little tighter out of your own nerves, or there may have been noise he didn't expect. But whatever the reason for his initial concern you have confirmed it by trying to beat him round. He is now utterly convinced that the show ring (and thankfully only the show ring) is a nasty place to be.

Which links to the second possibility - he has figured out that if he refuses he gets to stop. The two are not necessarily connected - ponies which go sour figure the same thing out and in a show environment it is quite true. So it is quite hard to convince them otherwise.

Or the third option - he just doesn't like to show jump. Some don't.This isn't my favourite option as generally horses are obliging souls and will do what we ask as long as we ask right. But it is a possibility.

To deal with it... (Sorry - this is getting long). My first option would be to go back to basics and try to show him that the show jumping ring isn't scary. You've a fair bit of damage to undo so it might take a while. Can you take him to a show, warm up as normal etc but then just walk in and walk around the jumps and come out again. Do that a few times and work up to just cantering around the jumps and come out. If he feels up to it ask him to jump one jump and then come out. Don't do anything more than you do in training. Encourage, support, reassure. Don't pony club kick, smack or growl. Set it up so he can succeed.

You could perhaps try Working hunters next season - he might be happier and less green in a show type environment even if it does have a jump in it. But don't repeat the pressure from showjumping or he may sour on that too.

Lots of group lessons and clinics. I don't know where int he UK you are but if you can get to a show you can probably get to a clinic. Let him see what it is to work around other horses and the noise / bustle. You could also try an adult camp next summer if you have one available.

ETA Sorry just seen you are in SA. I know a wonderful trainer in Wilderness big on the Cape SJ circuit. PM me if you want a contact. I can try and find some contacts for you if you are further north.

 

[Bernster]

Get a group of friends to come to a venue hire she’s paid for or something and have a fun day. If there are competitions there must be venues. You’ve got to think outside the box not keep trying to stuff the same stuff in the same too small box!

Agree, something gotta be done differently. But it's hard not knowing op circs to know what's best. I'd be getting pro help and views might even send away for schooling at a comp yard. But I'd prob give horse and rider a break for a bit and do othe fun stuff , as sometimes you (I) get too hung up on what's wrong and stop doing the other fun stuff.

 

[ycbm]

Get a group of friends to come to a venue hire she’s paid for or something and have a fun day. If there are competitions there must be venues. You’ve got to think outside the box not keep trying to stuff the same stuff in the same too small box!

We have no idea how difficult the things you are suggesting would be for her in South Africa. How do you know she even has any horse friends who also jump to ride with? I agree with your suggestions, just not the attacking tone in which you are making them.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

She's in South Africa, that may make this a lot more difficult.


TCT are you jumping full courses in your training lessons? Is it possible that he is over awed by a sea of fences in the ring?

There are full courses in our lessons. With him we do that to get him moving forward and incorporate exercises into a course.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Are you trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? you used the phrase that after sweat, tears and tantrums you had managed to 'make a showjumper' out of him. Maybe the horse doesn't want to be a showjumper and his talents would be better used elsewhere? Smacking, growling and being beaten over fences doesn't sound like the horse is having much fun. Sorry, I know myself how frustrating it is when the horses ambitions don't match your own. I have changed my ambitions to match my horse's a rather than try to make him fit into what i had wanted. (I may be completely off track here and am not critisising you in any way, it just made me wonder if, purpose bred or not, this isn't what the horse is cut out for. Like me, you could force me into swimming but I would never enjoy it, it isn't my thing, but put me in a different sport and I am much happier, even if I am physically perfectly capable of swimming)

He LOVES jumping, I wish I could post videos here to show what I am dealing with at home and away....

 

[criso]

TCT are you jumping full courses in your training lessons? Is it possible that he is over awed by a sea of fences in the ring?

I was going to suggest this. My horse enjoys jumping but can overawed by the number of new objects many of which are much more scary than anything we have at home. I do what I can at home but ultimately the only thing I can really do is get him out so he gets used to lots of different environments.

Sometimes I'll do the tiniest clear round so he all he's being asked to do is canter round scary objects.

Worth doing in this case as it's lovely to see how he's growing in confidence and starting to enjoy himself.

ETA it could look like laziness from the outside but it's not, he just gets overawed and freezes.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

As I stated, there is NOTHING the vet could find. I ran full bloods, full xrays, full soundness. Chrio/physio/diet/tack. Ulcers were mild and we put him on omeprocote for this, and they have not come back. They have been checked again.

I have no doubt it may be a training issue, but I cannot decifer where the short fall is, nor can my very well versed instructor or 2 others we consulted.

 

[ycbm]

There are full courses in our lessons. With him we do that to get him moving forward and incorporate exercises into a course.

Then my next guess is that it is leaving the other horses in the collecting ring which sets off this reaction. That's pretty common, and a situation which can probably only be cured with repetition.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Sounds like a complete pain in the backside! It may be fixable with a lot of time practice and patience, and maybe some dedicated prof help, and party he is still young so it could be nappy/nerves, but I'm not sure I'd be bothering in your circs. If he's fine doing other stuff, and you are 100% sure there is nothing physical, then I'd agree with Kat. I'd be changing focus and doing something you don't have to persuade him so hard him to do. Or sell him to a better suited home and get yourself a seasoned jumper.

I actually have a 2nd jumper A 9 year old TB. I have thought about selling the WB, believe me, but due to the fact that he does love to jump and I have never had issues apart from shows...(jumping shows)

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Get a group of friends to come to a venue hire she’s paid for or something and have a fun day. If there are competitions there must be venues. You’ve got to think outside the box not keep trying to stuff the same stuff in the same too small box!

This was done in a rented arena last week and he was quite happy. I had a whole load of friends come watch my lesson, and brought my other horse down and stood him in there aswell....no issues.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Agree, something gotta be done differently. But it's hard not knowing op circs to know what's best. I'd be getting pro help and views might even send away for schooling at a comp yard. But I'd prob give horse and rider a break for a bit and do othe fun stuff , as sometimes you (I) get too hung up on what's wrong and stop doing the other fun stuff.

I sent him too bootcamp...didn't work, he hated the rider. I then gave him 6 months off of fun stuff...hacking, track work on the gallops (race training track literally outside my paddock), XC jumps, playing around following friends over fences (can't hold him back he gets so excited), beach trips, popping over a few fences in arena then going for a long hack....

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Thank you, herd bound was a thought I did consider but quickly pushed aside due to the fact he doesn't care about moving away, will look into this though...

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Is there ANY WAY I can load videos?

 

[Kat]

Sell him to a hunting/team chasing home

 

[Bernster]

Is there ANY WAY I can load videos?

Ive only just mastered pics! But I think you do the same thing, get the web browser link and post in between [video] [\vide o] - I had to add an extra space in there. Pretty sure thats what I read when I was checking out pics on here.

 

[ycbm]

Is there ANY WAY I can load videos?

Put them on Youtube or similar, and either give us the URL or embed it like this. [video ] url here no spaces anywhere [/video ]

 

[Asha]

Do they have training shows near you That's how we have started our babies. We get them jumping well at home, and then take them to a training show. We pop them around a 50cm x pole course first. We encourage them to trot round, and once they are pulling us towards the jumps, we move to the next height.

I also saw someone go in with 2 horses, the baby followed the older one round. It worked a treat.

 

[ihatework]

You say he tanks you into fences at home. Are you SURE this is because he loves jumping? I have seen numerous horses that behave that way through anxiety. So it could be anxiety of SJ still, which just tips over in the ring and goes from rushing to shutting down? He is only 6 so still young.

 

[Red-1]

So after 2 years of solid hard work and lots of sweat and tears and tantrums, I finally have managed to make a showjumper out of my purpose bred WB. He has a fantastic jump.
He isn't naturally forward and although it requires some work to keep him going, once he sees fences he tanks me into them. On hacks he jumps everything, in lessons he jumps everything, away lessons he jumps everything, in the show warm up he jumps everything...once in the actual show arena he literally canters to a halt.
I am exhausted by jump 3 just keeping him going. No amount of smacking and pony club kicks and growling will help. There is no contact because he gives me none. When he eventually gets to each fence he hops over never touching a pole, if he decides to jump that fence. if he decides that it is too much effort he literally canters to a halt. We are jumping 90cm at home and 70cm at shows (he is rising 6 and a late maturer).

Can anyone help?

I think the answer is in the original post. You say he is a late maturer and not naturally forward. I think this *could* lead to thinking he has a physical issue. I would obviously check that out.

The forwardness never seems to have been established in any situation. You say that even in a good lesson he takes some work to keep him going. To me this is a red flag, once my horses are set going they keep self motivated. I would have a look at Andrew McLean, he is a master at establishing horses who keep forward without nagging. He has a web site.

I would not move any further forward until that basic thing has been established. Then I would tackle the tanking at fences, as this is not under your control either. He is a master at that too.

I can see why the issue at shows has occurred, most young horses shrink a bit when first going to shows, and when your horse did shrink with being scared/overawed whatever you want to call it, he was kicked, hit and growled at. This has not made him feel less scared/overawed at all, instead it has made him more so. The arena has become a place where even his rider turns against him.

If this were my horse then I would work at walk in an arena, and establish that I don't use my legs to keep him going, instead he keeps forward of my leg. I would use the resource mentioned to achieve this. Then move to trot, canter etc. Then sort out the tanking. Then go to a show, and go into the arena intending to just walk/ trot round with him providing activity. With mine I hired it at the close of a show, so the BS Fox horses finished and then as soon as the prize giving was over mine went in and did some flat work in a jumping style.

When you feel ready to go and jump I would choose a tiny clear round, where you can again establish forwardness at walk/trot then trot the course. I bet if you have an absence of kicking, hitting and growling it won't be long before he offers a canter.

I would expect some reversion to "go-slow" but then I would go back and re-establish the basics.

I do know how frustrating it is when a horse offers no go, my last horse Jay was shut down and initially only offered the bare minimum or tank, but I also know how rewarding it is when you unlock the mind and have a horse offering energy and fun.

 

[TheChestnutThing]

Do they have training shows near you That's how we have started our babies. We get them jumping well at home, and then take them to a training show. We pop them around a 50cm x pole course first. We encourage them to trot round, and once they are pulling us towards the jumps, we move to the next height.

I also saw someone go in with 2 horses, the baby followed the older one round. It worked a treat.

We do have training shows and that is what I take him to, but they run them on the same days as the graded classes so they treat the classes as graded in the sense of the style. We have few show venues here and few local yards that have good enough arenas to hold shows.

I think that following another horse at a show is a great idea, maybe I can try it after the show has finished...