Horsebox terminology, help please.

[Louby]

I will be in a position to buy my first horsebox soon and cant wait but after browsing through the ads need a bit of advice please

.
Can you explain what exactly a conversion is and why some people dont want one(I presumed most horseboxes have been converted at some point)
Tilt cab, I understand this allows easy access to the engine but some say the body can be lifted to access the engine which would be impossible I presume if horses were on board and you broke down at the road side.
Luton, I thought this was the bit thats often a bed above the cab, how can this be on a tilt cab?
If you dont have a luton (if its what I think it is?) , can you still have a crawl through?
Why do all the modern partitions have the awful slatted head dividers (heard of a horse get its leg through one)

Is there anything else I need to be aware of?

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Conversion is a body put on an old chassis (I think).

Luton is the bit above the cab, but think it is possible to still have a tilt cab and a luton.

Have never seen a lorry with a crawl through and not luton, but believe it is possible.

 

[christine48]

Conversions were probably a box van before.
Beware of who has carried out the biuld/ conversion. a friend of mine's horse went through the floor of a box which had been biult 6 months ago. Go for a reputable name if possible.
Tilt cab give easier access, though some have access through the living or cab.
The front of the luton either has a hinged front, or tilts with the cab dependant on the build.
You can have a crawl through without a luton.
Not all partitions have slatted headboards, mine has solid.

 

[catembi]

We had a luton that tilted. It's got some catches that you undo & the bit over the cab kind of folds in on itself, allowing the cab enough room to pivot forward.

When we had a lorry that didn't tilt it was a total pain in the a**e & all jobs took 4 x longer than they should. Would NOT recommend.

You can have a crawl thru without a luton. When we had our current box built, I didn't want a luton cos it was another £2k & I don't need the space, so we've got an aerofoil (??) ie a wind deflector on the cab roof. We did have the option of a cut thru from the cab to the living but I didn't want one.

Conversions - I *think* it deps on what the lorry was beforehand. On some, they might not have been intended to carry that sort of load so the suspension might not be up to the job so you get too much 'roll' round corners. Ours was converted from an ex John Lewis lorry which was good cos it had full service history & had been meticulously maintained.

Hope that helps a bit...

 

[c7mlm]

i have had a tilt cab with a luton and a crawl through,
and also had a tilt cab that did not have a luton ( had a wind cover !!! on top) with a crawl through. only thing i would say is i will only buy if it has a tilt cab.

 

[susannita]

Ok hopefully can answer some of your questions!!

A conversion just means that the lorry chasis has had a "former life"!! Just depends how hammeredd the chasis has been. Do not touch anything that used to be a tipper. Some horseboxes are coachbuilt onto a new chasis but obviously you are talking mega bucks new!

Tilt cabs make your garage bills a lot more reasonable as some garages won't touch lorry's without tilt cabs as it is awkward and time consuming to work on some lorry's where you have to take seats/cabs apart!!

The luton is the bit above the cab - usually the bed. In a tilt cab - depending on the tilt mecahnism - there will be some sort of panel arrangement which comes apart with varying degrees of easiness! Eg front of mine swings forward to allow the cab to tilt upwards. You need to have both cab doors open to tiult the cab so it depends where you breakdown as to whether it would be possible to do it with horses. If you are buying a lorry which says it is a tilt cab ask to see it tilt - i didn't and it cost me nearly a grand to get the mechanisms sorted so it would! plus it is a real issue if you don't know exactly how it works!! bearing in mind it is a moving part they also often leak so check!!

Without a luton it would be highly unlikely you would be able to have a crawl through.

I actually prefer the slatted heads as the horses can see out the lorry rather than sold ones where the horse can panic if they can't see anything. A mesh arrangement is a bit of a compromise (mine has detachable head guards and generally don't use them unless travelling horses which don't know each other/ arch enemies!

I have a huge blanket rack which i find fab but if you have huge horses be aware that they may not fit under them!

Ask to see all the living equipment working (cooker fridge heaters water systemetc) there is nothing worse than playing guess the instructions! or discovering someone forgot to drain the weater system over the winter and has burst the pipes!

Engine size - don't go fo anything less than a 130bhp, preferable much higher - there is nothing worse than crawling up hills because ytou are underpowered.

A leisure battery is a far better set up than relying on your normal batteries than ending up draining them and not being able to start!

An isolator is helpful to help ,prevent the batteries draining when the lorry is not in use for a while (bearing in mind lorries are designed to be on the go all the time and tend to spend large amounts of time sitting around.

Check that you can do the ramp on your own - not always necessary but if you can't it may need new springs and again more cost!

It is worth getting an independent check done particularly to check the floor etc.

Once you have the lorry breakdown cover is essential - I can highly recommend Equestrian Support services, they have been great over the years for me! money well spent!!

Hope that helps a bit!!

 

[pathelschoice]

with a conversion the original GRP box which is mounted on the chassis is utilised, - ramp put on the back, bulk head wall put in and usually a luton added to the front, beware though a conversion will always be what it is, it has the stigma of the "conversion" wording and for resale they will never realise the price of a coachbuild, and they are heavy ie: unladen weight.

Ideally the cab should tilt for easy engine access, but we have never had a problem with either tilt or non-tilt options, if no tilt and a luton fitted , then there should always be an inspection panel and bonnett cut away under the passenger seating and the oil and water filler points should have been relocated to the exterior of the body. Servicing on a non tilt will be slightly more expensive - especially if something like an engine/ gear box change has to be done as more labour time will be needed. The tilt cab with a luton can work on two different methods, the old way was to tilt throught the front of the luton , with a hinged "tilit" flap fitted, or the most modern way is to tilt from behind the cab, there are 2 frame works which lock together so if the cab needs to be tilted the whole of the luton is jacked forward and is contolled by Gas rams.

Not all partitions have grilles - some horses travel better when they feel the horse area is light and airy, and can see their travelling companions, and some travel better with enclosed head "dividers" or sniffer boards, especially if travelling stallions. We have never had a problem with the grille type horse head partitions , but you know how best your horse travels and dont be put off by hear say and what happened to somebody else. partitions can always be altered to suit.

 

[Louby]

Thanks for your replies, do any of you know of which makes to avoid re higher insurance, reliability, etc.

 

[c7mlm]

all mechanics will tell you different. i had a leyland daf and an iveco . the iveco was the nicer drive, both were reliable. my mechanic told me that he also liked volvo and the mercedes 811 (not atego) .

 

[Louby]

OMG Avenger, Isolators, Leisure batterys, etc, Ive got a lot to learn

My friends has a generator, Im too emabarassed to ask what thats for! I feel like a little fish in the big scary sea!!
I just dont want to get this wrong and end up with a load of rubbish.
Memo, is that your wagon on Horsequest, Silver one with blue graphics? If so its gorgeous. Im trying to get hubby on my side to agree to spend a little more at the moment . Ive only got one horse that has decided trailer transport is not for him

, hence the horsebox.

 

[LCobby]

The isolator is a switch that just stops any power from the battery(ies) getting through to the electrical equipment.
Leisure battery is used to power interior lighting, pump, tv , etc when you are using the lorry at a show, so you don't flatten the vehicle battyer needed for starting and driving

All lorries have an MOT, a 3.5 tonner can be done at some garages, over 3.5 and it goes to a VOSA test station.
The ''plate'' is a one off weight certificate, not the MOT, alhtouhg peopl talk about 'Plating' when they mean MOT


You also need to leanr two more terms-
Payload and Max Gross Laden Weight.
eg a 3.5 tonne lorry may have one tonne payload it it wieghs 2.5 tonnes befoer you put your hrose and equipment in it.
a 7.5 tonne,may have about 2 tonnes payload
But some lorries are built too heavy and don't have the carying capacity you need.

 

[dieseldog]

My lorry isn't a tilt cab - but it does have a bonnet like a car - so easy to maintain - just to add another dimension to tilt or no tilt.

 

[pathelschoice]

I posted the comments below a while ago when another forum member was looking for tips re: lorry purchase - hopefully this will help you-

Stick to looking at the main 3 chassis - Iveco (not ford cargo) , DAF 45 -150 ( the 130 is a great engine but can be gutless - the 150 / 170 BHP are superior, 180 is 6 cylinder so a heavier chassis), and M.A.N. ( dont forget the M.A.N chassis is around 300 kilos heavier than Iveco and DAF) - we dont rate Renault for reliability reasons, Mercedes are expensive for parts and roll quite a bit giving the horses sealegs, and Volvo although good trucks are again expensive for parts and are a very heavy chassis on 7.5 tonne basis.

Go and view quite a few vehicles and you will get a feel for what is value for money and build quality etc. Ideally coachbuilt lorries will always realise more money - especially for resale, and are lighter than a conversion.

Look to see if the cab tilts - and where it tilts - if the tilt is designed to go through the front of the luton (an older way of tilting) check for signs of leakage. If the cab is fixed then make sure an inspection panel and bonnet has been cut away below the passenger seats for easier engine access .

I would take a diesel mechanic with you - when you have found a suitable vehicle - always go for full service history - the mileage is not too much of an issue as long as the vehicle has been well maintained, the engine is designed to be running up and down motorways so when a vehicle becomes a horsebox it goes into "retirement".

Spend time looking at the underneath of the lorry to check for areas of corrosion - take a sharp pointed stick with you and lift up the mats in the horse area and have a real good poke around especially where the floor meets the body and in the corners.

Raise and lower the ramp - listen to the springs - and see where they are located - ideally the ramp should be undersprung ( springs underneath the ramp at the bottom) and give the ramp a jump up and down (on when lowered) and again check for signs of corrosion.

Ask for appiances to be turned on ie fridge, heating etc - see if you can smell gas - gas bottles should be housed on the external in a well ventilated compartment or on a floating stowage.

Check for signs of leakage- and feel the walls - its not unusual to have condensation at this tme of year but anything more than that will mean a leaky lorry.

There are companies listed in horse and hound who will check the vehicle for you - dont buy in haste and then find you have a total death trap- you are travelling your most precious cargo - usually horses and children so it has to be safe and well built.

Work out your capacity you need and then get a weight certificate for the lorry, make sure it is weighed on a calibrated weighbridge - with partitions on - so at least you know you are legal when laden. 7.5 tonne means it can carry no more than 7.5 tonne no matter what.

Good luck