Horses and liability

[elliefiz]

Does anyone have any experience with others looking for bills to be paid because your horse has kicked theirs? Been asked for money to pay an excess on a vets bill when my horse kicked another horse and dont think I should pay it.

 

[Batgirl]

Yes you are liable for any damage done by your horse as long a negligence by a third party didn't lead to it (i.e. were supposed to be in separate fields and someone put them in together).

 

[AmyMay]

What was the situation in which the horse was kicked?

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Liability will depend on circumstances and if horse was a known kicker.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Yes you are liable for any damage done by your horse as long a negligence by a third party didn't lead to it (i.e. were supposed to be in separate fields and someone put them in together).

I'm sorry but that is just plain wrong.
You are only responsible for injuries/damage caused by your horse, if YOU were negligent. Horses do kick in fields because they are horses, not because of any-one's negligence, usually. In many cases, it is impossible to know what happened, which horse started the incident, or when there are more than 2 horses in a field, which horse was the one which caused the injury.

 

[MrsMozart]

A friend of mine's horse was accused of kicking another horse. The owner of the other horse got a payout from my friend's insurance company.

Sorry, I don't know the full details. My friend's horse is not a known kicker, but he was the herd leader, and there were other horses in the field.

This was some years ago. I've lost touch with my friend so cannot more details.

 

[elliefiz]

Horse is not a known kicker. Sharer of kicked horse was chasing my horse and shared horse while they were loose in school whilst I was mucking my horse out. Apparently my horse got kicked first but no damage was done and in retaliation he kicked other horse back. Apparently agreement with sharer is that owner pays all vets bills so they dont have to pay the excess, I have been told I should pay it.
ETA and yes the situation that horse got kicked in is absolutely stupid. But sharer is a young teenager and I feel very sorry for them. So not going to go on and on about the dangerous situation, etc. I just feel I shouldnt be asked to pay. Especially as owner of shared horse was aware the horses were in the school together thus was aware of the risk.

 

[PandorasJar]

I'm sorry but that is just plain wrong.
You are only responsible for injuries/damage caused by your horse, if YOU were negligent. Horses do kick in fields because they are horses, not because of any-one's negligence, usually. In many cases, it is impossible to know what happened, which horse started the incident, or when there are more than 2 horses in a field, which horse was the one which caused the injury.

This is my belief.

If you are aware they are a kicker/you are leading at the time/one gets out through bad fencing etc (all aspects you can control) then you are responsible.
Horses being horses in a field, whoevers horse has been kicked would claim on their own.

Out of interest is it 100% your horse that did the kickin and was there witness to the fact?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

This is your second thread on here about this event. If you are still worried why don't you get proper legal advice? If you have insurance perhaps you should ask them, they'll either pay or they won't.

 

[eggs]

I'm sorry but that is just plain wrong.
You are only responsible for injuries/damage caused by your horse, if YOU were negligent. QUOTE]

Definitely not correct as the law of strict liability applies (there was a notorious case - Mirvahedy) that means the owner does not have to be found to be negligent.

Although having said that I have never heard of someone being asked to pay an insurance excess. Is there confirmed independant witnesses who saw what happened?

 

[ossy]

This is your second thread on here about this event. If you are still worried why don't you get proper legal advice? If you have insurance perhaps you should ask them, they'll either pay or they won't.

I was going to say I'm sure I had read about this event before and you were given some good advice orginally. I wouldn't be paying anything as I would not believe in such a circumstance you were the one neglegent.

 

[AmyMay]

Tell them to jog on.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

This is your second thread on here about this event. If you are still worried why don't you get proper legal advice? If you have insurance perhaps you should ask them, they'll either pay or they won't.

^^^This

 

[AmyMay]

Ahh, thought it was sounding familiar.

 

[PandorasJar]

Thanks for your reply- in the situation horses were not turned out- they were in the school whilst stables being mucked out. Horses were chased by sharer of horse that got kicked as they wanted horses cantering for a photo. In the excitment my horse got kicked and kicked back. Horse that he kicked is now injured. I have been told that I am expected to pay towards the treatment. Didnt think my insurance company would entertain such a claim so if I pay it will be from my own pocket. Still not sure I should be paying anything at all.

(From previous thread)

Who turned them out in the school? Is this at the new yard or old one? I'd tell them under no uncertain terms that you have no inclination to pay and write up exactly what happened. Preference would be with a witness to the incident too.

 

[piebaldsparkle]

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=557422

 

[lula]

looks like the advice on both threads is exactly the same

You're not liable

i think its pretty unanimous.

the phrase Jog on Kitty springs to mind.

 

[elliefiz]

Yes indeed it is my second time asking about this situation. But today I was actually asked for the money and told I was to send a cheque to the vet. So was a bit taken back! I had not been asked for money since I posted about the issue which was around the time it happened-I thought that the owner had gotten sense. My insurance company wouldnt pay it as they would consider the sharer as negligent.
ETA it was on my old yard not the new one.

 

[Goldenstar]

Did you contact your insurer ?

 

[PandorasJar]

Yes indeed it is my second time asking about this situation. But today I was actually asked for the money and told I was to send a cheque to the vet. So was a bit taken back! I had not been asked for money since I posted about the issue which was around the time it happened-I thought that the owner had gotten sense. My insurance company wouldnt pay it as they would consider the sharer as negligent.

Hah. They're out for a quick buck and hoping you're scared into paying out without questioning. Done legitimately you go through your insurance company not you personally.
Tell them that your insurance company is not interested in pursuing the claim and that any future communication can be done through a solicitor. I'm 99% sure they will back off as just chancing it

 

[AmyMay]

My insurance company wouldnt pay it as they would consider the sharer as negligent.

If this is what your insurance company have told you. Then there is your answer.

The people need to take the matter up with the sharer.

 

[WelshD]

I agree - if your insurance company dont want to know then they dont think you are liable and they are the ones expert on liability so I would take this as you NOT being liable and refuse to pay

Call their bluff

 

[elliefiz]

Sorry this thread wasnt worded correctly. I know that I had good advice previously that Im not liable for the damage which put my mind to rest at the time- I more wanted advice on how to handle the situation ie as much as I would love to say jog on to the owner in reality I would prob feel bullied into paying it as I am abit of a sad case like that. I suppose I was abit taken back that I had gotten an email looking for money with the details of where to send the cheque. It was quite direct! But thank you PandorasJar- I will send an email in reply saying more or less what you have posted above. It sounds reasonably polite but firm.

 

[Goldenstar]

This is now a the point of being a liability claim you should now contact your insurer and say this claim is being made against you and leave it them to tell the other party to take a running jump.

 

[PandorasJar]

This is now a the point of being a liability claim you should now contact your insurer and say this claim is being made against you and leave it them to tell the other party to take a running jump.

^^ +1

Regardless of whether the claim is made or not, they need to be aware that there may be one. Makes no difference to your premiums etc but is on file so you aren't caught out for not declaring at a later date.

 

[WelshD]

Bear in mind that if you cave in and end up paying and there are further complications with the injury or even an unrelated injury in the same place at a later date you may find that they come after you again

Stand firm and if they push refer them to your insurance company

 

[Wagtail]

The whole thing is ridiculous. The fact that the owner's insurance company is paying up in itself means that no one else is liable. As a yard owner I put a clause into the contract that no owner can be held responsible should their horse injure another or tear their rugs. It is one of those things that comes up time and time again on yards and so I put the clause in. This has meant that there have never been any arguments amongst liveries and the owners just pay up for any damage done to their horse. Thankfully it doesn't happen very often!

 

[elliefiz]

Thank you all- apologies for boring you all with the same issue. But im abit wimpy when it comes to saying no to people- typical pushover and would try to keep the peace by paying the excess when in my own head i know i shouldnt have to. I will try to be polite yet firm and stand my ground in this matter. I have moved yards (unrelated to this matter) so I dont have to see the owner face to face to discuss the issue thankfully!
ETA Wagtail I totally agree with the clause you have in your livery contract- makes life simpler for the wimpy people like me!

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Wagtail I was wondering the same about why the third partys insurance was paying if the third party thought OP was liable.

OP you need to stand your ground. The bullying can be reported to the police as harassment if it goes that far. If you're unable to do these things, then I suggest removing yourself from the situation, whether that means changing yards or changing phone number etc. You can't live your life in fear. Even paying up won't end the situation, instead it will lay you open to further hassle by these people and possibly others, who will see you as an easy target.

 

[Tinypony]

Again, have you contacted your insurance company?