Horses behavour, im at a loss, any ideas??

ameeyal

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My horse is nearly 8 years old, i started backing him at 3 1/2 only hacking him once a week as he was very imature, nothing bothered him he was such a sweetheart, when he reached 5 years old i took him out for his usual sunday hack, and he was really forward going {so unlike him} on the way home he just lept in the air and took off up the road with me. So i thought right addolecence is kicking in, he can start doing more work. So i tacked him up the next day got on him out on the lane, and he pannicked, i was in the process of getting off him, when he bolted up the road, i fell face down on the concrete.
The next 2 months i couldnt ride him, he went through different phases, i couldnt catch him/touching his body would make him leap in the air/tense/nervous/panicing over nothing. But i worked though it, He then hated any vehicals/cyclests/joggers coming towards him, and would panic, i couldnt hack him on his own { and i still carnt 2 1/2 years later} He then got over his "Meltdown" and i had a lovely sweet horse back we went farm rides/pleasure rides/ hacked everywhere with another horse as he would not do traffic on his own. One day i thought i would take him a farm ride that hes done a lot, on his own, there was no traffic on the ride, after an hour of being really good and jumping jumps, he bolted with me, no reason for it. He was then back to square one, being tence/nervous for about 3 months, but i worked through it with him { with another horse babysitting him} Then he just snapped out of it and became normal again { but i still couldnt hack him out on his own, he was scared to death of traffic coming towards him} everything was back to normal for a good 4 months, i was hacking out with my friend on him, and was heading home after being out for 2 hours when he just jumped in the air and took off down the road with me, i am now back to square one with him, i havent ridden him for 5 weeks, he is so tence/nervous ive been lunging him, and for no reason he will just take off on the lunge. Im at my witts end, and just so gutted, i know there is the sweetest horse in there somewhere, i can not sell him, Ive had the vet/physio/saddler/thermol imaging/ teeth/even an animal communicator and nothing, i dont feel its pain related, Thanks for reading {ive never writen such a long post lol} Just to add he is fed a barefoot diet { no sugers} lives out on a track system
 
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ameeyal

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Just done a full check up feeling legs/eyes/back gave me bute and said to try a fornight on bute { no differance}
 

ycbm

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I think with this erratic behavior you might have to start considering a brain tumour. I'm so sorry, but I wouldn't ever get back on him myself. I hope other people have some more constructive ideas for you.
 

FestiveFuzz

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My first thought was perhaps KS...although that doesn't really explain why he can go months where he is fine.

The other thing I'd consider is a tumour like others have suggested.

Either way I wouldn't risk riding him when he's so unpredictable.
 

fatpiggy

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I think with this erratic behavior you might have to start considering a brain tumour. I'm so sorry, but I wouldn't ever get back on him myself. I hope other people have some more constructive ideas for you.

I must admit I would be considering this too. Someone I knew had a 5 year old mare for dressage and she would just blow up completely without warning and bolt, and I really mean bolt. One day he asked the vet to come and take another look with a view to PTS and the vet was just saying, no you don't need to be that drastic, when the horse took off (they were leading her back down to the field after an examination), jumped two walls and ran completely blindly into a tree. The vet's immediate response was "I''ll go and get my gun" It did turn out to be a tumour.
 

Crackerz

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I think with this erratic behavior you might have to start considering a brain tumour. I'm so sorry, but I wouldn't ever get back on him myself. I hope other people have some more constructive ideas for you.

This is exactly what i was thinking. However i hope it's not true.

I had a pony in for backing many years ago, started fine, backed easily & was riding him away.
Then one day he just flipped like a switch had gone - he bolted straight towards a big brick barn - literally straight at it. I anticipated a sharp left turn, he took a right turn. He flipped me upside down and i hit the wall back first and landed on my head. I broke my spine in 4 places....
Pony was never ridden again and eventually diagnosed with a brain tumour. However, he was kept as a companion by his owner and is pretty sane under no pressure with a sedate lifestyle.


I feel you have persisted enough & before something bad happens to you, i would ask for further vet tests
 

Sukistokes2

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Sadly i have to agree with the others that there may be some sort of tumor, even if not, something is wrong and its simply not worth putting yourself at risk. I had a friend whose gelding had a brain tumor and he bolted in to the middle of a busy A road with her, it was lucky she wasn't killed. He was pts after that and the pm revealed the tumor. Like yourself she had persisted with the training and the tests. Because she is a professional rider she felt that she could cope wit his unpredictably, however of course its really nothing to do with the ability of the rider. I wish you luck and best wishes for any decisions made.
 

eggs

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Sorry to say but I'm with the others. The only horse I've known with such erratic behaviour was pts and then found to have a brain tumour.

Certainly he should not be ridden until you either have an answer and solution or decide to retire him. It doesn't sound as though he had had a full vet work up so that might be a starting point.
 

FfionWinnie

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Whatever the reason is it worth the risk to you or someone else thinking you've fixed it and finding out you haven't when a serious accident occurs? No money in the world would get me back on a horse like that. It's meant to be fun.
 

Wagtail

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Just done a full check up feeling legs/eyes/back gave me bute and said to try a fornight on bute { no differance}

Whilst I agree with the others that it does sound like a possible brain tumour, the above check is nowhere near adequate to rule out pain. Often pain presents with sudden erratic behaviour and nervousness/spookiness nearly always increases too. Please get him thoroughly checked out, including X-ray of his spine. I agree that he should not be ridden until a cause is found.
 

Goldenstar

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You need a proper work up it needs to be done by a vet experienced in doing these performance issues type of work up .
It needs to be comprehensive and I would include back X-rays .
Has he had his eyes checked if not do it at once a friend bred a horse whose erratic behaviour was tracked an eye issue in the end .
IMV this is 99 % likely to be pain related the remaining 1% would be a bored horse needing a different lifestyle .
 

BBP

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My little horse is much the same although has never bolted he can panic. He has had extensive work ups and has some back pain, sacroiliac injury, muscle disease, gastric ulcers, severe pollen allergy. He has had a head CT and there is nothing nasty tumourish there (big relief). The allergy almost seems to cause the most problems, his forehead muscles swell and he looks like he has a huge migraine, he gets incredibly anxious and would huff and puff and panic. Antihistamines have helped his hugely this year. I am getting his eyes reinvestigated now though as he definitely has a slow menace reflex in his left eye, and the fact that the reflex is different between the two eyes makes me wonder if how he sees the world is distorted. Vet is here in an hour so will update you. Visually his eyes look fine.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Your description reminds me very much of the just backed 4 yr old I bought many years ago, she was nervous in some situations and ultra sensible in others. Over the years, she became progressively more difficult to ride and then to handle. Eventually, we rea!used that she was reacting to feed. Her problems were caused by cereals and refined sugar but I have horses who have been affected by supplements, including Pink Powder, seaweed, Brewer's Yeast, and supplement bases, carrots, alfalfa and these days, we now monitor extremely carefully a y new foodstuff that we introduce.
Being careful not to put yourself at risk, I would remove everything except grass and hay (no haylage) and monitor the behaviour in a diary for at least 3 weeks. The made I mentioned at the beginning g was very sensitive to sound and of course could hear all sorts that we couldn't, so she probably wasn't quite as erratic as we used to think.
 
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YorksG

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I'm another in the feed can be responsible for this behaviour camp. The other problem which these horses can have is the "kindly" passer-by who decides that they will feed your horse. We have had this problem over the years, from the elderly man who fed the sugar and cereal intolerant mare on sliced white bread, to those who "only" feed carrots, "becauses horses like them and they are alright to feed them". This has resulted in the older appy being unable o move forwards or backwards on the road, resorting to rocking horse mode (which is no fun for her or the rider!) There will be those who tell you that it can't have that much impact, believe me it can! We now fence our horses back from our walls, we bought this place particularly because it had no footpaths across it, we still have some fools who climb the walls to feed them, but in general we do ok. What is your horses breeding, as we think that the tb blood may have some impact in this, but only annecdotal evidence to back it up.
 

Illusion100

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From my experience of horses with either suspected or confirmed brain tumours/lesions they are 100% fine one moment, then within the blink of an eye go completely ballistic/highly aggressive/uncontrollable then quick as you like, are back to normal carrying on with whatever they were doing like the episode never happened. It is totally bizarre (and petrifying).

I think your horse frightened himself, he got unusually on his toes, got carried away, lost his balance, freaked out and bolted off. When they panic like this, especially if they are young/immature/bum high/on the forehand, when they bolt off they find it difficult to stop as the fright has made them feel very unbalanced and it's almost a bit like running down a steep hill, you are trying to control your speed/balance and you can't, it's scary.

This can really, really knock their confidence, they can go into high alert because they don't feel in control and therefore many 'old' objects/scenarios become a threat, they feel a constant need to be ready to run.

It sounds that in time, he regained *some* confidence but sadly the same thing happened and he's back to square 1 again.

Obviously I don't know if that is the problem, it just seems like it may fit and of course there may be a pain element as well. if the pain element is ruled out, or if a pain issue is discovered that can be managed there is still the fact that the confidence/balance issue needs addressed.

For this, I think a good trainer would be a very good idea. He needs to learn to balance his body, control speed and to use his hindquarters and abdomen to do this, rather than his forehand. This way if he gets a fright, instead of running off and frightening himself by feeling he's going to fall on his head, he can lift himself back onto his hocks and regain control, doing wonders for his confidence.

Just my opinion anyway, wish you the best of luck with it all.
 

ameeyal

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Thankyou everyone for replying, ive had this horse since a foal, hes the sweetest horse not a bad bone in his body, this behavour is just not him. I will not be riding him for the present moment, my confidence has been at rock bottom with him, ive wanted to just sell all my horses, ive felt that down with his behavour.
Ive put him on cool calm and collected { starter pack has no magnesium in it} hes been on it for 5 weeks, hes had no magnesium in his diet for 5 weeks, and he is behavour on the ground is much panicy, so he needs magnesium. I dont feed him any sugers, just a token feed with his supplements.
How can i tell if he has a brain tumor { hes not insured, if its to costly} its funny but the animal communicator said that he told her he had a headache!!
I think i will have his back exrayed just to rule that out. I will not pass him on, and will consider having him pts, hes to young to be a field ornament, and i do have other horses to look after as well. Thankyou illusion100 for your input that was interesting reading.
 

Rhandir

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I'm with illusion .. many years ago I had a horse with a brain tumour (confirmed by PM).

I knew something was very wrong with him, he was just five years old and up till that time he had been a lively but safe ride. He began to act very strangely for a short amount of time and would stop very quickly .. just like a light switch being flicked on and off.

He went through a total personality change and the odd 'moments' went from sporadic to quite frequent and the aggression was seriously ramped up and went on for longer each successive episode. He was pts.
 

Illusion100

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How can i tell if he has a brain tumor

PM really is the only feasible option but it isn't always guaranteed as there doesn't necessarily have to be an obvious tumour to cause that sort of behaviour. It can be caused by a lesion (of varying size) or even misfiring neurons, the latter would be impossible to pick up and lesions can also be missed.
 

ester

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I think you need to spend as much money as you are happy to to get him a proper work up as Goldenstar describes. But you might not find anything. I imagine you can CT scan for tumours these days (you can for scan heads anyway) but that really does depend how much you are prepared to spend rather than retiring or PTS.
Can you make a timeline of his 'moments' for as long as they have been happening just in case that throws any sort of pattern up?
Are his events always prefaced by him being anxious or does he just go?
 

Pearlsasinger

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Thankyou everyone for replying, ive had this horse since a foal, hes the sweetest horse not a bad bone in his body, this behavour is just not him. I will not be riding him for the present moment, my confidence has been at rock bottom with him, ive wanted to just sell all my horses, ive felt that down with his behavour.
Ive put him on cool calm and collected { starter pack has no magnesium in it} hes been on it for 5 weeks, hes had no magnesium in his diet for 5 weeks, and he is behavour on the ground is much panicy, so he needs magnesium. I dont feed him any sugers, just a token feed with his supplements.
How can i tell if he has a brain tumor { hes not insured, if its to costly} its funny but the animal communicator said that he told her he had a headache!!
I think i will have his back exrayed just to rule that out. I will not pass him on, and will consider having him pts, hes to young to be a field ornament, and i do have other horses to look after as well. Thankyou illusion100 for your input that was interesting reading.

The simplest, cheapest test you can do is to stop feeding him anything except grass and hay! Even a tiny amount can affect susceptible horses. If you are not riding anyway, you will not be putting yourself at risk by taking him off the foods. We could tell with my mare in 3 days, because her behaviour changed so much. Do give it a try!


Eta, a brain tumour had been suggested in my mare's case and I remember telling a vet that she was hyper sensitive to feed. He said"I bet you thought she had a brain tumour, didn't you!"
 
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Nudibranch

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Apart from going straight to worst case option - a brain tumour - there are a fair few options first. As several people have suggested, his diet may need tweaking. What exactly did the vet say when he was looked at? Were they not concerned about the behaviour? Is he like this all the time or just under saddle? I know he's had various checks but if he is ok to handle and turned out I would still be looking at tack. OP I know you are now understandably nervous about riding him now - but this is going to affect his behaviour. Sounds like he hasn't done an awful lot since being backed, and I know you say he's been great a lot of the time but I can't help thinking there could be an issue here. Has anyone else ridden him? How does he go with them? Is is just a hacking issue or is he dangerous in the school? Also, one person's running away is another person's bolting. Is it possible he's doing these things because he can?
I appreciate there could be 101 possibilities but I can't help feeling this thread has gone from 0-60 very quickly, and there's a lot we really don't know before assuming it is something as awful as a brain tumour....
 
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Gloi

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Has he ever really been put under pressure schooling or just mainly hacked out quietly with normally no problems. Could be something as simple as life always being quiet and pleasant for him and when something upsets him and sends him out of his comfort zone neither of you have the experience with each other of dealing with it so it blows up into a big episode. I think it would be worth sending him away for a few weeks intensive work with a professional and see what they make of him and his problems.
 

deicinmerlyn

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Whilst I agree with the others that it does sound like a possible brain tumour, the above check is nowhere near adequate to rule out pain. Often pain presents with sudden erratic behaviour and nervousness/spookiness nearly always increases too. Please get him thoroughly checked out, including X-ray of his spine. I agree that he should not be ridden until a cause is found.

Is he footsore in front? Barefoot? Is he holding himself and then possibly having spasms?
 
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