Horses - Blood Banks - anyone any experiences?

[allbnl]

Heard that my old eventer has been forced to retire due to injury. Heard current owners are thinking of blood bank donation, as dont want to put him down. Any one had any experiences?

 

[bailey14]

Yes two of my friends have taken their horses there. There is a place down Milton Keynes that accepts horses that can no longer be ridden. The horse can be either sex, not sure if age limit, my friends two horses were approx six and ten years old, but horses need to be, from what I gathered about 16hh or thereabouts, middleweight/heavyweight (better for giving blood, i.e lightweight arab of 14.2hh not stocky enough) and not be on any drugs, so therefore needs to be able to live a non medicated pain free existence. They also require to be adaptable to living out for most of the year, as far as I know they live rug free and are bought into huge indoor barns from Oct - April, the rest of the year they have huge fields where they live in organised herds. My friend took her horse down a couple of years ago now as he had kissing spine and could no longer be ridden. She said if she didn't like the look of the place she wasn't going to leave her horse. She said as far as the eye could see where loads of fields with all sorts of horses, breeds, colours and sizes and you could have heard a pin drop, they were all stood with their heads down happily grazing. Her horse got turned out into a paddock with a couple of other horses and they had one sniff of each other and next thing you know they were grazing side by side as if they'd known each other all their lives. She is happy with her decision (as happy as she could be). She is, like a lot of people, a one horse owner and could not afford to retire her horse and get another, but nor did she feel it was right to put him down. The horses are brought in, in turns to give blood, the whole process takes about ten minutes, and each horse is given a bucket feed as a thank you. They live the most natural lives non wild horses could possibly live. Of course there are the exceptions like any large horse herds where horses don't get on, and very ocassionaly there are casualties, but I wouldn't hesitate in sending my horse to such a place if I had no other option but to put it down. The only thing is that you have to sign your horse over to them, so this is a decision that only you can make, as you cease legal ownership. The chap concerned has in 'intake' I believe it was twice a year, April and October from what I can remember from the conversation I had with him (on behalf of my friend), he is very busy doing this operation as he has a lot of horses as you can imagine. I think the chap will ring to let you know if a) your horse won't settle (which is almost unheard of) b) requires to be put down due to natural or accidental causes - like I explained earlier, an operation of this size will always lose the odd one or two horses, as is the norm on any large yard of horses, accidents between horses do sadly happen from time to time. Please feel free to PM for the details, but have a good think if you feel this would be the right course of action for you. I don't know, I might be wrong, but as far as I believe they do not encourage visitors as they are so busy, so you would probably never see your horse again, but it wouldn't really be fair on it if you did. Its a big decision to take, but like I said in the case of both my friends the only other option was for their horses to be PTS, and at least they have a wonderful life. Most people have a picture in their mind of loads of horses tied up in stalls being attached to equipment morning noon and night wheras the reality is nothing like. For health and safety of the animals I think they are only allowed to give blood every couple of months as are humans. Sorry for long reply but I would love to be able to give you assistance in what must be a very hard time for the current owners of your old horse.

 

[longtalltilly]

I know the RVC at potters Bar has a small herd of blood donor horses - may be worth talking to large equine vet practices in you area! The may be able to point you in the right direction!

 

[bonny]

My understanding of blood banks is very different to this and I would say don't send your horse to one unless it can go on loan so that you have some say over the horses future - they buy horses very cheaply and get far more than they need so only keep the quiet, easy to manage ones. It dosen't take much imagination to work out what happens to the rest .....

 

[bailey14]

Bonny - With respect, I do think you shouldn't comment on something unless you know for definite, ie. you have been there and seen it for yourself. This is not what my friend knows as she took her horse to the one down in Milton Keynes. There is a lot of speculation, unthoughtful comments and the like when people make comments about things they do not know for fact and it would be a shame if a horse does not have a second chance at life because its owner has read a speculative reply to a post on this forum when that poster really doesn't have a clue. On what basis to you assume to know these facts? Blood banks do not buy horses, they are gifted them (after all they have to make a living out of the blood which is sold to labs and hospitals) by owners who clearly love their animals. It is not an easy option as I explained in my earlier post, sometimes it is a very hard decision to make, and it was for my friend. And lets face it, who it their right mind would take on a 16.2hh WB gelding that could never be ridden again as a field companion? Sometimes there is no other choice x

 

[bonny]

I can comment on whatever I like !! and for the record I do know for definite and I have been there and seen it for myself - have you ?
It's not a good option if you are a horse, but it is a way for people not wanting the responsiblity of dealing with their own horse and it's future .....it's a good option if you want to bury your head in the sand which is what you seem to be suggesting ....
A 16.2 warmblood would not be the type of horse that a bloodbank would want - think about it .....

 

[nicnag]

The bloodbank at Falkirk (http://www.eolabs.com/facilities.htm) actually has had a pretty good reputation in the past apart from the one story regarding the womn who had put her horse out on loan , the loanee in turn gave it to the bloodbank and they sent it on to Turners as part of a load when they had finished with them.
The way they are kept is well regulated, they have a happy life - I have been there to visit the unit when my friend was looking into options for her 18hh warmblood.
The truth is that they can only keep horses until 15 years as the quality of the blood starts to decrease. Obviously a lot of these horses are there because they cannot be ridden so the only option is to put them down if they cannot be returned to the owners.
It is something I would consider but I'd also want the choice of what happens once my horse is no longer suitable for donation, that way I can make the decision of retiring them at home or putting down.
Contrary to popular belief the horses still have to be physically healthy and not in pain to be donors, they have to be paddock sound otherwise the home office would be down on them like a ton of bricks.

 

[ihatework]

I have never been to one of these places personally however I have an old friend who knows the owners of the place in MK.

This friend of mine is an experienced horsewoman but sways towards the bunny hugger tendancies. She has seen all the goings on at the blood bank and she maintains it is a place she would send a horse to provided the horse would suit living a more natural lifestyle.

I don't think anyone sending a horse there should be under the illusion that it will live a pampered lifestyle forever and a day. At the end of the day these places run as a business, so the horses have to be relatively fit, healthy and robust and easy to handle. They need blood to sell on with as little hassle as possible. As soon as your horse reaches a point where it is unproductive then it will be PTS.

However in the 1, 2, X number of years your horse is there it will have food, shelter, companionship and be safe in the knowledge that it will not get shunted around from home to home. In that time your horse will also have an important purpose in life, it will supply blood for use in the veterinary industry.

And unless I am missing something I don't see any reason why a 16.2hh warmblood wouldn't be a suitable candidate on the proviso it could live out minus rugs/shoes

 

[hussar]

I can also comment favourably on the blood bank near Falkirk, having visited it in the course of writing an article. I was impressed by the condition of the horses and the care taken to give them as natural an environment as possible. I would certainly consider it as an option for any horse who couldn't be sold on or retired and wasn't rideable.

My only concern would be for horses right at the bottom of the pecking order, as they work on a herd system, and I suppose there is potential for bullying.

 

[bonny]

I wasn't commenting on the condition or lifestyle of the horses that are kept at bloodbanks and I accept that the ones that are kept are well looked after and healthy - they have to be to give blood regularly. They are kept in a large herd environment and only fed hay/hayledge etc to cut down on the bullying but it is a system that only suits some easygoing horses. My problem with sending a horse there is many of the horses are not kept, they are running a business at the end of the day, not a horse welfare charity and I believe it is passing on the responsibility of horse ownship by people who can't or won't face the alternatives .....

 

[ihatework]

Okay, let me turn it around for you.

You have a horse, fairly young, unrideable but otherwise fit and well and in no significant pain.

As an owner you can:
1. Pay lots of money to keep it pampered for the rest of it's life
2. Pay a smaller amount of money to keep it on grass/retirement
3. Put it to sleep
4. Sell it as a companion (don;t start me on that)
5. Donate as blood horse

Being practical few can afford option 1. Lets rule out option 4 because that really is passing the buck.

So we have options 2, 3 and 5 left.

Option 2 the horse is living in a field not doing anything and costing the owner money. Nothing wrong with that if that is what the owner wants (I infact have one in this catagory)

Option 3 - again I see no problem with this

Option 5 - The horse is living as per option 2, with option 3 being inevitable at some point in time. In the interim horsey donates much needed blood (so has a purpose), saves owner some money, and is a small part of a business that pays taxes. Is it really that bad???

 

[bailey14]

I don't see any reason why a 16.2hh warmblood could go there. Any horse can be conditioned to live out 24/7 without rugs, it is simple in reality, its just that we choose to molly coddle ours. There's an event rider who rides to 3*** and hers live out all year round.

Is the owner contacted once the horse reaches the age where it is unproductive for the owner to have the option to have the horse back, or is the horse put to sleep regardless and the owner not notified? Is it put to sleep on the premises or sent away somewhere? Is it used for meat? Does anyone actually know the answers to these questions as I am curious?

 

[nicnag]

You have the option to retain ownership on your horse and take them back once they are no longer useful to the bloodbank.
As it is I do believe that by putting them down/sending them to Turners when they are no good to them in fact the bloodbank are doing the best thing by the horses. They aren't returned to the public market where they could be passed on. They will always source horses from somewhere.
I understand what you are saying about people passing on the responsibility but at the same time I think it is a perfectly acceptable option providing you do your research and understand exactly what will happen during and after your horses time there.

 

[bonny]

Sorry but you are living in cloud cuckoo land ! the horses aren't conditioned to live out or in a herd, they are either suitable or not - the ones that aren't kept for whatever reason go to be slaughtered they are not put to sleep on the premises - this is a business

 

[nicnag]

Nobody said they were to put to sleep on the premises, but at least you can be guaranteed that they are going to be disposed off ( I won't say PTS) and not sold from pillar to post.
I definately don't agree that horses can't be conditioned to live ot - that is what they are designed for! My TB mare happily lived out all winter in a similar set up and she was the fattest I've ever seen her and much more settled.
Yes, this is a business and as such the money from Turners will be part of their return.
That is why I'm saying you have to research it, and the option to have your horse back is still there

 

[bonny]

I was replying to Applecart's message not yours ! you sound pretty sensible about the whole thing - they don't !

 

[nicnag]

Ok - sorry, bored trying to do an online health and safety course - obviously failing miserably!

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry but you are living in cloud cuckoo land ! the horses aren't conditioned to live out or in a herd, they are either suitable or not - the ones that aren't kept for whatever reason go to be slaughtered they are not put to sleep on the premises - this is a business

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you by the sounds of it! It is feasible that the owners of the horse could condition it to live out then send it to the blood bank, is it not? It actually is not terribly hard to condition a horse to live out, I did it with a v feeble TB:

Step 1: take off shoes
Step two: put in field
Step three: check, and over time decrease rugs if it went out with one on.

My horse went from pampered stabled horse to living out horse (with a full clip in the middle of winter) overnight - they are tougher than you think. I stuck a HW rug on her for the first couple of months, then a MW then none.

In terms of the end result - well if the horse can't be ridden and the owner can't afford to keep it, PTS was inevitable anyway, so what's the problem if it has a few more years herd life then gets PTS? Ok so it is at a slaughter house rather than a bullet in the back garden, but the end result is the same.....

I'm afraid it sounds like you're being a bit sentimental about the PTS aspect rather than anything else.

 

[bonny]

I should go out and leave this but I have to point out that you're making assumtions about things i never said. Of course horses can live out - mine do as well, I was saying that bloodbanks won't do the job for you - horses have to be suitable for the lifestyle or not .....
I'm not being sentimental about horses being PTS as you put it - in fact they are taken miles to slaughter houses, but that's a separate issue. My problem about the whole thing is owners like Applecart who want to believe that they are doing the best for their horse when in fact they should take responsibilty for it themselves

 

[SpottedCat]

I don't understand why it isn't taking responsibility? It is far, far better than selling on or giving away as a companion, surely? You know that at some indeterminate point in the future the horse will be PTS. In the meantime, no-one will try and ride it or sell it on to be ridden for profit or neglect it etc etc.

It will be cared for until it is no longer useful, then PTS. It's not a worse option than PTS yourself, it's a different one, and probably the only way in which you can transfer ownership of a horse that can no longer be ridden and be certain what will happen to it.

 

[bonny]

If they keep the horse then fine - I accept that is an option, however there are 100's of unrideable, unwanted horses looking for homes. Bloodbanks tend to keep horses that suit them, they don't need a constant supply of new ones - what do you think happens to the rest ?

 

[SpottedCat]

They get PTS/sent for slaughter. But if as an owner you can't ride it and can't keep it and were going to have to have it PTS anyway, what's the difference?

 

[bonny]

there is no difference, but if the horses is going to go for slaughter then why not take it yourself ? It's the same as sending the horse to the sales if it has no value as a riding horse - it's passing the buck

 

[bailey14]

bonny - It wasn't my horse I was referring to, and you would have gathered that if you had read my OP. It was a reply about my two friends horses (one of whom is my current friend). It is better for a six year old horse to be put down some 9 years later at the age of 15 by the blood bank when its spent 9 years enjoying a life of riley then to be put down at the age of 6 after hardly any experience of life at all. My friends horse was roughed off without rugs over a three month period before he went to the blood bank. His feeds were gradually decreased until he was on good grass/haylage only and was turned out 24/7 for a couple of weeks prior to going. His shoes were removed and he went barefoot for a month prior to leaving the yard too. He had as much preparation for his new life that my friend was able to give him. The vet highly recommended the place and our farrier was hoping to get a contract there trimming the feet of the horses. I can't understand what the issue is. There is no way of knowing what happens to the horses at the age of 15 or whenever it is that they become unsuitable for giving blood anymore, but government legislation would ensure that they are either put down in a certain humane manner or travel a short distance to an licensed slaughter house. At the end of the day its about doing what is best for your horse, and its personal preference but I back my friend and her decision 100%. Bonny you are entitled to your opinion, freedom of speech and all that, i was merely pointing out that unless you have hard facts you shouldn't speculate on what you may or may not have heard through gossip and the like. x

 

[SpottedCat]

No it isn't - the horse a) has a useful few more years, and b) contributes to veterinary medicine - why is that so so bad? And are you saying if your horse needs any kind of blood products that you will refuse them then? Because if it is so morally wrong to send a horse to the blood bank, then surely logic dictates it is also morally wrong to use products produced by the blood bank...

 

[bonny]

like I said before you are living in cloud cuckoo land - but lucky you if you are happy there .....

 

[bailey14]

What does the OP think about all this debate anyway? Being as I was trying to help them in the first place and the new owner of their horse and not start yet another long and agonising debate it would be interesting to hear their comments on the situation. Are you there OP? Can you comment?

 

[bonny]

I'm not saying it is bad - I've said several times that the conditions at bloodbanks are fine - that wasn't my point ....

 

[bonny]

I think the OP wanted people's views and experiences which is exactly what she/he has got ....

 

[bailey14]

Hasn't she just!