Horses "Faking" Injury/Sickness

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CanadianGirl

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In another thread on here a couple of people have said that they believe their horses have "faked" lameness or "put it on" to get out of work.

What's your opinion? Do you think that horses brains work in that manner or is it anthropomorphizing them?

Personally, I'm not sure what to think, but I lean towards that they don't do it.
 
I replied to the original thread, I'm in the no camp! I think horses, like people, can sometimes get a pain that suddenly appears and then disappears, and doesn't mean anything, but essentially they wouldn't fake it, because why/how on earth would they evolve to do that?! It goes against every prey instinct to single yourself out deliberately as injured
 
I would tend to agree with you...
I do not think their brains are capable of that kind of thought process or decision making.
What makes them think their horses are faking it?!

I have heard completely the opposite - that some horses 'hide' their discomfort to a certain extent - and this makes more sense to me, because in evolutionary terms they wouldn't want to expose any weakness that might leave them vulnerable to be picked off as an easy target by the next mountain lion (or whatever). I absolutely don't think this is a conscious thought process though - sort of instinct that has evolved.
 
Many years ago I had a pony who liked to gallop and jump, and that was it, schooling, or walking and trotting were bo-ring and she'd nap like the blazes.

One day the neighbouring pony caught a cough, so she and my pony were quarenteened and off work for a week.

Thereafter when I was riding, if I started to do boring stuff my pony would start to cough her eyeballs out. If I started to ride her back to the yard, or to the field where the jumpy gallopy stuff happened the coughing would stop instantly, turn her back to the school and she'd cough fit to turn herself inside out.

She'd do this in the stable as well, if I opened her door and just had a grooming kit or headcollar she'd be fine, if I had tack in my hand she'd be up the walls coughing and coughing and coughing.

The vet looked at her several times, and couldn't hear anything on her lungs, she never had a runny nose, or any discharge.

So make of that what you will.
 
The behavioural scientists would say no way.

In general, I'd say many people describe something as faking it when it isn't, because they don't know what's causing the lameness or whatever.

I am on the side of the fluffies (!) and I think yes, horses can put on behaviour if it benefits them. During schooling Frankie was famous for puffing and panting whenever we approached the corner where the instructor sat, and as soon as we had passed he'd he silent... only to repeat ad nauseum until we went back to walk :rolleyes: I'm confident it could have been scientifically proven that he breathed like that only in whichever corner the instructor was in, had we decided to measure it. He even did it one day when he saw her get out of the car and I hadn't even been on him yet FFS :rolleyes:

I think horses are more intelligent at putting two and two together than we often give them credit for.
 
kickonchaps said:
I replied to the original thread, I'm in the no camp! I think horses, like people, can sometimes get a pain that suddenly appears and then disappears, and doesn't mean anything, but essentially they wouldn't fake it, because why/how on earth would they evolve to do that?! It goes against every prey instinct to single yourself out deliberately as injured
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Turn that around to a prey animal doesn't want to waste energy being made to trot in endless circles, because its using up the energy they made need if a predator suddenly appears. Prey animal hurts himself, and observes that limping = work stops, person gets off, get rested. Prey animal gets better but is still motivated to expend as little energy as possible, so experiments with producing the same stimulus (limping) which got the desired result last time. Prey animal gets to conserve energy again, and the behaviour is reinforced.
 
Captain has a good work ethic but where we used to keep him there was a DWB who used to fake lameness. E. used to help out when she'd finished Cappy and she was asked to turn this horse out. All the time she was watching it was limping as soon as she stopped watching, he stopped limping. she said it was comical because she would turn around quickly and he would start again.

Might only have been him but in that case, yes they can.

Not illness but a school horse we used to know used to fake going to wee so he could stop schooling! I saw him do that, he would stop, assume the position and then nothing. He would then just stand until he was made to move off. I thought he had something wrong with him, but no he did it all the time and no health issues.

FDC
 
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I think they can when i took my horse to newmarket because he was four out of five lame when they trotted him up he was sound.They looked at me as if to say heres another one and kept trotting him up while i watched still sound then i walked away to get something out the car he went hopping lame and the vet said to me hes trying to not upset you by limping i was so shocked but at home when i used to trot him up and see him limping tears would run down my face. As iv owned him seventeen years and my baby was hurt soft i know couldnt help myself.
 
I certainly began to think so with a mare at my yard. She went to to different specialists for her refusal to work and nothing was found wrong with her. Everyone thought we were making it up. She plain refuses to work with her owner or myself, and yet works fine for strangers. I say 'fine' but she is not working through her body. It is as though she is holding herself together and forcing through some pain. Her owner and I pesevered and insisted it was pain related. Insurance refused to pay up the £4k costs because the vets said there was nothing wrong. Finally, faced with an unridable horse, her owner paid to have her looked at again at a dfferent specialist centre and they found lots of gastric ulcers and lamenss in te right hock. So, I guess a horse can certainly push through pain if they want to, but when they feel relaxed with people they know, maybe they try to tell them something's wrong? But I don't think horses are capable of making the symptoms of pain up.
 
I know some animals do the opposite (wild animals mainly) will sometimes hide their illness/pain, so they do not look weaker to their preditors.

But with horses who knows, without looking into it, my first guess would be no. But who knows with domesticated horses.

If they could think that far into things, enough to create scenerios to get out of things. I would say they should have more of a say as to how they live. But of course that sounds silly :)
 
With my boy it's because he thinks he lame! For example, when he loses a shoe while being ridden he will suddenly be on three legs, refusing to move because he is adamant that there is no way he can walk with only three shoes. He will hop about for a bit (I'm on the ground with him at this point) and then start putting the foot down. The look on his face is hilarious as he realises that he can actually walk :rolleyes:

I think horses are perfectly capable of faking injury, however very few do it because very few have the inclination.
 
There are lots of human traits we attribute to horses!

I truly believe my old horse was a drama queen- he'd almost faint at the sight of his own blood and go lame having seen said wound, Until seeing this wound he'd been absolutely fine, and was fine again when a nice man wiped the blood off with his handkerchief... Not entirely sure what to make of that one!

He also went terribly lame in dressage tests- we'd trot round the outside just fine, trot down the centre line and he'd be very stiff and doddery and undeniably unsound. Trot out of the arena and he'd be sound again... It's probably a learned behaviour- horses spend so much time around humans I suppose in a way it's almost sensible that they pick up human traits in a way?
 
I do think that horses are much more intelligent than we give them credit for. Ted certainly appeared to 'fake' a cough with me, although from a behavioural point of view it is understandable why. He used to cough in trot, and I used to feel sorry for my poor Ted, and would bring him back to walk, and then ask for trot, and he would repeat the coughing, so I would let him walk, this process would then repeat, until I would believe him to be suffering and call it a day and dismount. However, my sister saw this once and said she thought he was 'faking' his cough, as he never coughed at any other time, such as when trotting around the field or in stable. This behaviour went on for a couple of weeks, I had the vet out and Ted was given a clean bill of health, no respiratory problems..

So the next time I rode and he started his coughing , my sister asked me to dismount and she got on Ted, he coughed once and she rode him through it, and didn't let him stop, and he never coughed again in the 20 minutes that she rode him. So the next time I rode him, I didn't let him stop and walk, he coughed a couple of times and then carried on without any 'coughing' It is easy to see that Ted had learnt that 'if I cough, she lets me stop walk, if I continue to cough, I get out of work.'
 
My friends gelding also does the coughing thing. As soon as she picks up her reins to ride him in an outline he pulls his head down and coughs. She picks up her reins again, he coughs again. This can go on for 20 mins and drives me insane. Eventually, he'll stop once she loses her temper and stops letting him put his head down. I'm like, why don't you just not let him do it from the start??? Aaaarrrgh!

I used to have a connie x tb years ago when I was a teenager. He would stop in the field when I was on him, (we didn't have a school), and "pretend" he needed to pee. I'd stand in my stirrups and he'd all of a sudden whip round and bugger off to the gate! Usually leaving me on the floor. He definately knew what he was doing!
 
I have a wily cob who does this. An obliging boy,who will go slightly lame if he thinks he's doing too much work with his rider and wants a day off. If I ignore his hobbling, he'll throw in a cough for good measure.
Out in the field, he'll been seen playing and cantering with his mates. No cough.
 
traceyann said:
I think they can when i took my horse to newmarket because he was four out of five lame when they trotted him up he was sound.They looked at me as if to say heres another one and kept trotting him up while i watched still sound then i walked away to get something out the car he went hopping lame and the vet said to me hes trying to not upset you by limping i was so shocked but at home when i used to trot him up and see him limping tears would run down my face. As iv owned him seventeen years and my baby was hurt soft i know couldnt help myself.
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Oh bless him!!!
 
I wandered this about my pony, its so weird he's 22 and yes i suppose he does have to some degree some arthritis, but out in the field he can be trotting around and cantering and he will be completely sound. However if i bring him in or he see's a bridle he goes lame and his action in his hock gets shorter and stiffer, yet in the field he's fine!

Also he's very good at faking needing to go for a wee!! When he was in work, if a child was having a lesson on him he would keep stopping, stretch out and act like he was going for a wee!! One time i think a child was stood up waiting for him to wee for about 20/25 minutes, he doesnt have any problems going for a pee as he manages it fine out hacking or in the field its just he doesnt want to go round and round the school because its boring!

I dont think we give them enough credit to be honest! They are smarter than we think, my five year old appaloosa TB mare has been watching the children next door and has picked up sticking her tongue out at people! I took her rug of one day and put it on the floor and she was stomping on it, i told her to get of it and go away and graze, she backed off, looked at me, ears back, tongue out and galloped off!

:p clever or just cheeky i wander!
 
SpottyTB said:
Also he's very good at faking needing to go for a wee!! When he was in work, if a child was having a lesson on him he would keep stopping, stretch out and act like he was going for a wee!! One time i think a child was stood up waiting for him to wee for about 20/25 minutes, he doesnt have any problems going for a pee as he manages it fine out hacking or in the field its just he doesnt want to go round and round the school because its boring!
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This was the case at our riding school when i was younger! Loads of the cheeky ponies used to do this!
 
I don't think horses are capable of thinking "I know, if I hobble/cough he/she'll think I'm ill and won't make me work!" but I certainly think they're smart enough to notice that when they've gone lame or started coughing in the past, they were able to stop. I think the former is just humans anthropomorphising.
 
CanadianGirl said:
In another thread on here a couple of people have said that they believe their horses have "faked" lameness or "put it on" to get out of work.

What's your opinion?
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Stupid people who don't know their horse is lame, let alone why its lame. :mad: Of course horses don't fake lameness, just because the horse isn't consistently hopping on three legs in every situation does not mean there's nothing wrong and the horse is pretending when it does show unsoundness.
 
I don't know about 'faking' injury or lameness, but I once had a gelding I kept at a livery yard. One summer a few of the horses, including him, were moved to grazing about 4 miles away. I went over every day, but got worried and stopped riding him because he seemed to be going downhill. The last straw was the day he seemed incapable of getting up - I rang the yard and begged to be able to take him back early. A friend and I went over to start walking him back, she on a bike with his saddle on it. As we crossed the A2 about halfway home, he suddenly picked his head up off the floor and started to drag us along. So we saddled up and got home in record time. The blighter shot into his stable with a smug expression and never looked back...
 
several years ago I put my mare out on loan , a week after she left she went very lame , walking on three legs , the man had alot of vets look at her over a period of six months and couldnt find the problem in the end I brought her home, she limped up the ramp as she left his place and arrived home completely sound , years later when I sold her she didnt eat for ages and nearly died of hyperlapemia
 
Mine: in the school, lame as a duck. Get off - gone. Get on - lame. Hack out - gone. School - lame. I just ignore him now - we only walk in the arena at any rate as he's only young!!

My friends horse "frets" about her putting his saddle on for ten minutes and then once he's got some carotts its fine. Then he won't let her get on. 20 minutes it takes her. No back problems other than maybe he's ticklish. Gets on the mouting block, he moves away. Walk back round. Gets on the mounting block, he moves away. Repeat for TWENTY GODDAMN *******ING MINUTES!!! It drives me NUTS. I had him when she was on holiday ages ago - you raise foot to stirrup mounting from the floor, take hold of reins and he moves away. I repeated it ONCE. Went to find a whip - as he moved away I slapped him down his offside. Never had a problem since. But this same owner also says "Please don't do that" and "No thank you" - what? He doesn't understand please and thank you and he's standing on my effing foot - shove it you stupid woman!!!!

So yes, I'm convinced that some of them definitely know what they're doing and invaribale do it try peoples patience. You try mine once and enough is enough as I don't have a lot of it!!
 
My husband used to call my previous horse "sick note" because he would always start coughing when I took up the contact and asked him to work properly in the school. He would be find whilst he was just pootling round though!
 
There was a horse at the riding school that I used to livery my horses at. EVERY saturday he'd be led out to the mounting block and he would be literally on three legs. However, when he was led back to the stable/field again he'd be practically trotting sideways snorting!!!

So I'd say, yes!!!
 
Whoopit said:
Mine: in the school, lame as a duck. Get off - gone. Get on - lame. Hack out - gone. School - lame. I just ignore him now - we only walk in the arena at any rate as he's only young!!
!
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Does your youngster have shoes on? One of mine always went lame on a school surface but was fine hacking in the fields or roads. On the advice of my vet we put shoes on him and he was never lame again.
 
eggs said:
Does your youngster have shoes on? One of mine always went lame on a school surface but was fine hacking in the fields or roads. On the advice of my vet we put shoes on him and he was never lame again.
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Um, no he doesn't have shoes on. . . :eek:

Did the vet say why yours only did it in the school?

I am really averse to having shoes on him as they make his feet really brittle and his shoes rip most of his hoof off about 3 or 4 weeks after going on and only being in a field, no ridden work!! He really was lame then! :D
 
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