Horses "Faking" Injury/Sickness

There's a RS horse at our yard, a BWP, who is "bridle lame". Apparently she trots up fine, has had full vet work ups etc and nothing's wrong. You get on her, boom she seems lame. Off again, retrotted and checked and she's fine. Back on to ride and a few minutes later she's fine again, which people say is because she's worked out that her ploy hasn't been successful. I've ridden her twice and she's not done it either time, and I've yet to see it for myself so can't judge about it's truth. Apparently it's why the YM didn't bring her on as a GP horse despite her breeding and scope, that and her tongue hanging out as she's got a couple of teeth missing.
 
I think that horses can "fake" it, just simply because a while ago M and me got into a bit of an accident .. resulting in her acting like she only has three legs .. managed to get her back to the field and she was walking fine, felt all her legs etc and hosed down the one she kept holding up.

The next day I get a text from the FO saying that shes fine, so I went up at lunch time M grazing in the field weight on all fours like normal .. the minute she looks up and sees me .. she picked her leg back up acting as if she only had three legs again!

So I got her out and felt her leg and everything again, it felt fine .. but she looked a bit stiff when I turned her round to do the fencing back up .. So gave her a groom and rung my FO saying "are you sure that M was okay this morning because shes gone back on three legs again" .. put her back into her field she goes and carries on grazing .. FO comes out of her house and starts walking across the field to me to have a look at M .. M see's her coming and runs full pout towards her thinking that its dinner time!

Got M back out of the field again and shes fine .. no "acting" stiff or anything it was so strange! I think she didnt want to be ridden that day .. I wasnt planning on riding anyway but it was just so odd her doing that!

Shes only 5 haha :)

Can I also just add .. if I thought that she was in pain or in any sort of discomfort then I would of got the vet out asap .. but the fact that she was fine running around the field when the FO comes out and then standing fine and no heat etc did say to me that she was fine lol
 
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Glad to see I wasn't the only one with a coughing pony!


Ilovefoals said:
I used to have a connie x tb years ago when I was a teenager. He would stop in the field when I was on him, (we didn't have a school), and "pretend" he needed to pee. I'd stand in my stirrups and he'd all of a sudden whip round and bugger off to the gate! Usually leaving me on the floor. He definately knew what he was doing!
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LOL, yeah the old stop for a wee routine was something nearly every pony at the riding school I used to go to would do at least once per lesson
 
Our first Clydesdale mare had worked in a RS. She never did want to expend more energy than absolutely necessary. When we first got her she would stumble frequently, even when out on a hack. Two experienced riders who kept a contact and used their legs stopped that but on one famous occasion,she was working in the schooling area of the field with the novice OH. He asked her to trot and she 'went lame'. Novice OH pulled her up and was seriously considering getting off her. YorksG (my sis) suggested that he carry on. But he was adamant that the mare was lame. So YorksG hopped on, put feet through stirrup leathers as they were too long and trotted her round the schooling area - lo and behold, she was no longer lame!
I suppose it could be argued that the more experienced rider was holding her together so that she was less likely to stumble but actually it did seem more that she knew that novice would let her amble around if she 'faked' lameness while it was a waste of time trying to fool experienced rider.
The WelshDxTB mare once flipped up a stone which hit her knee as we were putting her into the field. She limped a couple of steps, so I stopped and 'rubbed it better'. The mare walked along the fence line with us to the other gate, where she lifted up her knee, waiting for another rub - the only thing was, it was the other leg! (She got the rub, for her cheek).
 
Ok, it was me who brought up this subject on the other thread.
So, I have a question for you. This is a true scenario.

My horse goes lame a mile out from home, on her offside front. I'm talking very lame and seems to be a shoulder lameness. I walk her home, she is lame when I get there. Check foot, tendons, no heat anywhere. Seems to easy off after being in her stable munching hay for half an hour. That evening, she is sound, next day, sound.

So, putting it on to get out of work and back to her food, or???

Answers on a postcard please.
 
lhotse said:
Ok, it was me who brought up this subject on the other thread.
So, I have a question for you. This is a true scenario.

My horse goes lame a mile out from home, on her offside front. I'm talking very lame and seems to be a shoulder lameness. I walk her home, she is lame when I get there. Check foot, tendons, no heat anywhere. Seems to easy off after being in her stable munching hay for half an hour. That evening, she is sound, next day, sound.

So, putting it on to get out of work and back to her food, or???

Answers on a postcard please.
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I don't know how to answer on a postcard so I'll have to do it here. I thought it was an interesting concept, that's why I made this thread, not as any sort of disrespect to you.

I still don't know what to think. There have been times when I've thought that my mare has faked feeling 'off' (she had me thinking that she was at the start of a colic) to get out of work, but how can we know? It seems like everyone has a story of their horse coming up lame and being fine afterwards. Something that made sense to me from your thread was that for the ones that seem to be playing up lameness, maybe it is just one of those 'twinge' pains. I've gotten those kinds of pains in my ankles before, say if I had to run without any warm up. It hurts a lot, feels like a sprain, but goes away almost as quickly as it came on. The stories are interesting and they do make you wonder.
 
Not sure about horses but we once had an insanely intelligent (and virtually human) border collie who got kennel cough as a young dog. He liked his syruppy medicine so much that long after the cough had cleared he would sit in front of us, gaze up with big brown eyes and let out the most pathetic "aheh" cough you've ever heard. It was hilarious!

But that's an example of a learned behaviour, rather than a conscious 'illness faking'... he learned that when he coughed, he got a lovely sweet treat, so he kept doing it. I wouldn't say for sure that a horse couldn't learn a similar behaviour if it is very work-evasive, but I think it would have to have a few genuine incidents before it would associate the behaviour/outcome of "if I limp rider gets off and work is finished".
 
there was a horse at my old riding school and we had pony club camp and i rode him on the monday and he was absolutely fine, no hint of lameness at all, until the evening when we went to turn him out he was as lame as anything so was put on box rest for a bit and then when we tested him the next day and he was walking absolutely fine because he thought he was going to the field and then as soon as we walked him away from the field he realised we were checking him and so the exaggerated limp came straight back and he was signed off work for the rest of the week. As soon as most people had left the camp we looked at him again and he was completely again... we think he was trying to skieve off camp :p
 
CanadianGirl said:
I don't know how to answer on a postcard so I'll have to do it here. I thought it was an interesting concept, that's why I made this thread, not as any sort of disrespect to you.

QUOTE]

No worries, didn't take this thread as any disrespect at all, and glad you started it.

Any thoughts on my scenario anyone?
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I've known two neds who faked lameness. One was the pony I rode as a kid. He genuinely did hurt his stifle jumping a Cornish hedge with a big ditch on the landing side and he was rested and treated for that. As soon as his saddle reappeared he would limp like mad on that hind leg but strangely, as soon as he was turned back out he would scarper at speed, bucking his head off and going over the hedge instead of through the open gate. The other was a wiley old character at a riding school. He would limp on one leg before lunch and on the other after lunch. He also had a favourite trick of wanting to have a wee whenever he heard the mention of trotting. We always gave him the benefit of the doubt first time and he would happily spend half the lesson stretched out in a corner. A bit of brisk vocal encouragement usually resulted in a few drops squeezed out and then he'd repeat the same trick in the next lesson, and the next and the next. A real character!
 
I don't think they can fake pain!! As like others have said, it goes against all their instincts. I think they are more likely to hide pain, so as to not single themselves out to a predator.
 
lhotse said:
Ok, it was me who brought up this subject on the other thread.
So, I have a question for you. This is a true scenario.

My horse goes lame a mile out from home, on her offside front. I'm talking very lame and seems to be a shoulder lameness. I walk her home, she is lame when I get there. Check foot, tendons, no heat anywhere. Seems to easy off after being in her stable munching hay for half an hour. That evening, she is sound, next day, sound.

So, putting it on to get out of work and back to her food, or???

Answers on a postcard please.
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No postcard lol, but that to me screams muscular or ligament pain, which she can feel with weight on her, and is sill recovering on the way back to the yard, and that evening she's had a break and it feels better again, so she's sound again.

I don't think that's faked at all.

My boy broke his knees in September, and is now field sound, but with my weight on him he goes lame on one side again, but this disappears after about 15- 20 mins and he's completely sound again.

Do I think this is faked? Because he's lame the second I get on him, and when he realises I'm not getting off does he stop pretending?

No, absolutely not.

Horses can fake things like needing a wee, that is learned, and they can learn to hide and mask the pain depending on who is present, but they don't fake it.

IF you aren't experienced with muscular injuries I would recommend getting a physio out
 
Not quite the same but similar - does anyone else's horse have a massive bout of yawning just as you want to put the bridle on?
My girl does - I wasn't sure if it was a cop out or whether yawning has some sort of body language meaning?
 
Ok, the answer to the postcard question. The vet was called out next morning as I wanted an answer as to why she was so lame the day before. The vet was there for 2 hours, she is a trusted vet so took what I had said onboard and did a full examination, including lunging and riding on both soft and hard surfaces. Horse was sound.
My vet is very thorough though, and took a blood sample.
The results came back and she was nearly off the scale for muscle enzymes. She had massively tied up in her shoulder and neck muscle, rather than over her quarters.
If I had put this down to my horse 'putting it on', then I might have continued riding her, and done untold damage, but I don't believe that a horse can fake pain, so I did the right thing and called the vet.
 
lhotse said:
Ok, the answer to the postcard question. The vet was called out next morning as I wanted an answer as to why she was so lame the day before. The vet was there for 2 hours, she is a trusted vet so took what I had said onboard and did a full examination, including lunging and riding on both soft and hard surfaces. Horse was sound.
My vet is very thorough though, and took a blood sample.
The results came back and she was nearly off the scale for muscle enzymes. She had massively tied up in her shoulder and neck muscle, rather than over her quarters.
If I had put this down to my horse 'putting it on', then I might have continued riding her, and done untold damage, but I don't believe that a horse can fake pain, so I did the right thing and called the vet.
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:) I'm glad you have such a good vet, and it's nice to hear of someone actually listening to their horse (this thread is bloody ridiculous!!!)

At least you know what it is!!!! :):)
 
bensababy said:
Oh this place is so fickle, i post my experiences as everyone else has above - except i get called Brainless, stupid etc
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I think the other thread got a bit heated because the OPs horse had fallen on concrete for no reason and a lot of people insisting that the vet should be called, and made to stay longer than 10 minutes, felt ignored.
 
Better add, in response to op...

No. :D Too dangerous for horses to take that approach imo.
Even humans with so called hypochondria have something going wrong that needs sorting. :(
 
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Haven't read all replies, but just replying to original question. I have seen and worked with hundreds of horses, and only seen this sort of thing once. In all those horses, one would hobble about, we couldn't find anything wrong, so in the end would turn him out for field rest as nothing else worked. As soon as he was turned out he was sound, and would happily gallop about playing, 'looking after' his girlfriend and jumping between fields. When we took him out of the field, he would go 'lame' again, and end up back out there. Literally lame as soon as he was through the gate. This went on for a few years. After the first few times we found that we would have to be a bit tough when he'd been out for a holiday and make him get on with it, whilst being extremely careful that it wasn't a 'proper' lameness. He soon stopped 'faking' it when he found that we had sussed it. He did occasionally do it throughout the rest of his life, would be unexplainably lame, go out, go sound, have a week off then come back into work, try it on for one day, give up, be sound. He was bought off the forest at 6 months and spent the next 26ish years in the riding school.

I think he was just supremely clever, and who can blame him for taking time off lol :D

Never seen it in any other horse.
 
Some of these stories are amazing! I think lameness before hard work can perhaps be attributed to a physical response to the anticipation of hard work, kind of like when you know you have to go for a run and suddenly you feel soooo stiff and tired you can't move!

Likewise how many people have had a minor injury that makes walking etc uncomfortable, but when you get in the saddle and start doing something you enjoy and your mind is off the pain, you stop being aware of it? A horse in the field won't be nearly as aware of pain in its leg as a horse in an arena being asked to work hard on that leg while carrying a rider. And think how many children (and adults :o) are full up until they see the desert menu...!!

Agree with what's been said about horses hiding lameness for certain people, too. I'm sure we've all had that moment when you get home from work (or in my case get to mum's!!) and the bug you've been fighting all week unleashes itself, sometimes you just need someone there to look after you before you fall apart!!
 
I do believe the odd one can, although my boy definitely tries to hide pain.

I knew a riding school horse (where i worked for several years) and he would be completely sound in the arena........until some jumps were put out, and then he would literally be on three legs, hobbling,

put jumps away and he would be completely sound again! he was never jumped incase he wasn't faking, but I and many others witnessed him do this
on a regular basis!
 
She's in pain, either brought on with work or saddle pinching, a muscle spasm who knows, but pain.
If this were an isolated incident then she probably stood on something that hurt.
Just because you can't find anything obvious doesn't mean something isn't wrong.
Get your vet next time, that's why they train for 7 years and tend to know better than us mere horseowners...
 
bensababy said:
Oh this place is so fickle, i post my experiences as everyone else has above - except i get called Brainless, stupid etc
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Actually, I think you will find that you called yourself brainless!!

And I quote

"I am not scientist but i truly have no explanation for 2 events my pony has undertaken, maybe i am brainless, but unless someone else has any other theories i am stumped, "
 
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