Horses feet are sick again.....

asommerville

asommerville

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Looking for any advice at all please! When i bought my mare she had horribly flat feet (think so flat the sole and frog were totally flat and there was nothing to pick out!) Now over the past 6 years i have spent a fortune on supplements, shoes etc. When i got her she couldnt hold a shoe for more than 2 weeks, I then got her feet well enough to hold them for 6 weeks. She has had heart bars on, and wedges and after last winter when she stood in for 10 weeks with strangles her feet looked amazing. The blacksmith put her into normal shoes and until about 6 weeks ago her feet looked pretty good, in the last 6 weeks however they seem to be going downhill, she was shod 3 weeks ago and I said to the blacksmith that I wasnt really happy with her feet and that they seemed to be getting flat again - he said we would keep an eye on them and think about putting wedges on at some point - not really happy with that but what do I know. .....cue now she is sore on her feet, sore coming out of the stable in the morning but better at night coming in from the field and just slighlty lame in trot. Vet says she needs heels on so the blacksmith is coming out tomorrow. She is fed mollichaff calmer, fast fibre, equimins balancer and linseed oil, also haylage as she won't eat hay after 2 bouts of colic 2 weeks ago. The sore feet coupled with the fact that she is really hairy and her age (17) is worrying me a bit - but I might be paranoid as I am precious about her.

Now my head says take the shoes off but.....I dunno like I said I'm a bit precious and worry how sore her feet will be!

IS there anything anyone would suggest at all? And thanks for reading!
 
Has the vet suggested testing for cushings? at her age, the hairy coat and deteriorating feet it would be worth checking before you do anything else.
 
I think you need a blood test for Cushings and to stabilise the condition, if she has it, BEFORE you think of removing her shoes, or she may be very uncomfortable. You may also need to be aware that false negatives for Cushings are common, though they seem to be more reliable at this time of year because the change of season affects them, which is what you may be seeing in her feet now.
 
it is also worth mentioning that boeringer ingleheim are running free cushing tests through your vet. I think they need to be booked before the end of november to take advantage of the offer.

This is taken from my vet, so it may be worth enquiring

"Free Cushings tests currently being provided by Boehringer Ingleheim Vetmedica will not be available past the end of November. So if you have a horse or pony prone to laminitis, losing weight, urinating and drinking more than normal or growing a long, curly coat call us to organise your cushings test before the end of November."
 
asommerville said:
Looking for any advice at all please! When i bought my mare she had horribly flat feet (think so flat the sole and frog were totally flat and there was nothing to pick out!) Now over the past 6 years i have spent a fortune on supplements, shoes etc. When i got her she couldnt hold a shoe for more than 2 weeks, I then got her feet well enough to hold them for 6 weeks. She has had heart bars on, and wedges and after last winter when she stood in for 10 weeks with strangles her feet looked amazing. The blacksmith put her into normal shoes and until about 6 weeks ago her feet looked pretty good, in the last 6 weeks however they seem to be going downhill, she was shod 3 weeks ago and I said to the blacksmith that I wasnt really happy with her feet and that they seemed to be getting flat again - he said we would keep an eye on them and think about putting wedges on at some point - not really happy with that but what do I know. .....cue now she is sore on her feet, sore coming out of the stable in the morning but better at night coming in from the field and just slighlty lame in trot. Vet says she needs heels on so the blacksmith is coming out tomorrow. She is fed mollichaff calmer, fast fibre, equimins balancer and linseed oil, also haylage as she won't eat hay after 2 bouts of colic 2 weeks ago. The sore feet coupled with the fact that she is really hairy and her age (17) is worrying me a bit - but I might be paranoid as I am precious about her.

Now my head says take the shoes off but.....I dunno like I said I'm a bit precious and worry how sore her feet will be!

IS there anything anyone would suggest at all? And thanks for reading!
Click to expand...

I would test her for cushings but in the mean time I would also treat her as a laminitic (the two tend to go hand in hand) Remove the Mollychaff (it is highly mollassed) Increase the fast fibre if necessary, and Ideally soak the haylage. also restrict her grazing preferably keep her off the grass completely for a few days.... I would hazzard a guess that It is not just a coincidence that her feet improved after a prolonged period off the grass and it is funny that her feet started going bad again 3 weeks ago, which pretty much co-incides with the weather changing and grass flushing through again. I would treat her soreness as mild laminitis and do something about it now to prevent it getting worse :)

I'm not sure what the equimins has in it but she may be better on something like pro hoof or supplementing her with Magnesium, copper and Zinc.

Taking her shoes off would be a good idea (I certainly wouldn't put wedges or anthing like that on) but I would want her a bit more comfortable first. Flushes in grass as well as pain can cause colic.
 
mollichaff calmer so v low in sugars and has added magnesium. if i take her off that what can i give?

also shes worse on her feet in the morning but strides out better having been out in the field - anyone suggest why this is?
 
Mollichaff Calmer is a highly palatable, complete fibre feed designed for horses and ponies prone to nervousness or excitability. It contains a balanced blend of fibre pellets, oat straw, dried grass, herbs, soya oil, vitamins, minerals, limestone and trace elements. Along with a carefully formulated combination of camomile, lemon balm and mint, Mollichaff Calmer supplies elevated levels of magnesium, as a diet deficient in magnesium can result in increased muscle contraction, making the horse less able to relax and more likely to become excitable or fizzy.
Ingredients - Straw (can be high in sugar), fibre (what source?), pellets (molassed to bind them), molasses, dried grass (flash dried high in sugar), soya oil, vitamin & mieral pre-mix, herbs, limestone,salt,flour.
Protein 7.8%
Energy 9.8mj per kg
Crude Fibre 27.6%
Oil 5.7%
Ash 8%
Calcium 0.83%
Phosphorous 0.4%
Magnesium g/kg 3.4

I cant find the sugar% anywhere on line - is it on your feed bag OP?

Fast Fibre would be a good alternative and just buy magnesium from Natural Horse Supplies and add your own pure.

Standing around in a stable must be causing a build up /pressure which is easing with movement over the day. Can she stay out?

Sounds like you need a good trimmer to give a good once over and help you with everything not just the feet.
 
thank you TT i thought their diet was pretty good....clearly not :-(
ill have a look at the feed bag too.

she cant stay out unfortunately, she always wants in.
 
Thats cos its her routine. Feed in the field, put hay out away from gate she'l soon get used to the change. Id also be getting the shoes off, ive yet to see wedges improve anything.

RE feed - just because the labels say Laminitis Trust Approved, good for feet, calming etc doesnt mean it is!
 
sorry shoild have said no.other horses r out either, what chaff would you suggest as the ones i looked at the mollichaff seemed the best

after this thread ill be changing my youngsterd diet too sheesh its a minefield!!

and there looks to be a number of different mag ox ' s too :-)

farrier has basically said horse has sh*** feet well just need to see what we can do to manage them
 
asommerville said:
sorry shoild have said no.other horses r out either, what chaff would you suggest as the ones i looked at the mollichaff seemed the best

after this thread ill be changing my youngsterd diet too sheesh its a minefield!!

and there looks to be a number of different mag ox ' s too :-)

farrier has basically said horse has sh*** feet well just need to see what we can do to manage them
Click to expand...

They dont need a chaff if theyre getting hay. I just feed Fast Fibre to hide minerals in. HoneyChop do a straw one, or Halleys do plain timothy chop.

http://www.naturalhorsesupplies.co.uk/p/product/0802207584-Magnesium+Oxide+%28Heavy%29+900g++%A31299/

Thats the magnesium I use as its cheapest for purest quality.

If my trimmer/farrier said that Id say well you're the person supposed to advise me best so theyre a reflection of your work and Id change hoof care provider! Hooves are a product of their feed, environment and stimulus.
 
Yes firstly I would test for cushings just to be on the safe side.
Diet wise you don't really need a chaff. Fast fibre, linseed, mag, salt and a GOOD vits/min supplement should do it.

My tb has very flat feet but he's getting there and will never have shoes on again.

Bar shoes, wedges etc aren't improving your horses feet just making them look better to your eye. To me they are evil things.

It can be done and the hoof will show u it can grow a good angle if you let it
 
this is a minefield :-) i thought equimins was one of the best whwn i weighed thwm up. both big mare and unshod youngster are on the same diet, its funny as his feet are great! ill have a look into cushings and speak to the vet, typically shes stood in all day (in shavings up to.knees) and came out her stable tonight better than she has in ages......
 
asommerville said:
this is a minefield :-) i thought equimins was one of the best whwn i weighed thwm up. both big mare and unshod youngster are on the same diet, its funny as his feet are great! ill have a look into cushings and speak to the vet, typically shes stood in all day (in shavings up to.knees) and came out her stable tonight better than she has in ages......
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So had she spent 24 hours off the grass? If so... re-read my original post. I think Mild lami is quite possible. She may not have cushings at all but it is possible and worth checking out.

Re the chaff unfortunately the clue is in the name 'molli' is short for mollassed which = sugar.

You really don't need to feed a chaff, and as she is obviously quite sensitive I would prefer not to as lots of the mollasses free ones contain alfa-a which is not great for particularly sensitive sorts. As I said. Just increase the amount of fast fibre and as someone else said, add Micronised linseed and Magnesium as a starting point. There are some great hoof supplements around - consider prohoof or forage plus's winter balancer.

Dont stress. It is a minefield to begin with but once you know what to look out for it becomes much easier. have a read through some of the barefoot posts on here... you can guarantee they all suggest the same things, and the only reason for that is that it works. Whether you chose to keep shoes on or not.
 
she has actually and off today as the blacksmith is coming....lami is starting to make sense, ill get a bag of micronised linseed once the oil is finished and ask yo if i can start mixing her hay into haylage. will get farrier to look for signs of lami too

thanks! Ash
 
asommerville said:
she has actually and off today as the blacksmith is coming....lami is starting to make sense, ill get a bag of micronised linseed once the oil is finished and ask yo if i can start mixing her hay into haylage. will get farrier to look for signs of lami too

thanks! Ash
Click to expand...

Why mixing hay into haylege? Hay is better than haylege where possible and if its lami it may need soaking as well
 
asommerville said:
she has actually and off today as the blacksmith is coming....lami is starting to make sense, ill get a bag of micronised linseed once the oil is finished and ask yo if i can start mixing her hay into haylage. will get farrier to look for signs of lami too

thanks! Ash
Click to expand...

The thing is there may be no outward signs of it (Other than crap feet) but a lot of 'soreness' is attributed to low grade lami. Does she have any ridges in her hoof wall at all? are hee corronet bands inflamed at all? I think mixing hay into haylage is a good idea. I would even go so far as to soak it initially.
 
shr had colic 2 weeks ago ( was on hay until then) but would not eat hay and has refused since so been gettimg 1 net a night (v strict about that) the horse about 2 years ago had x rays and was shown as her pedal bone demineralising but has never caused a problem.and she is sore on both front feet not just the pedal one - i know i shouldve mentioned that earlier but tbh didnt think it was relevent.

i thought mixing hay and haylage would hopefully start to get her back onto hay if its the haylage that was causing the problem....

ill try get pics tonight LP
 
Apologies - I read it like you were moving her onto haylege rather than trying to get her back on to hay! Look forward to the piccies :)
 
cptrayes said:
I think you need a blood test for Cushings and to stabilise the condition, if she has it, BEFORE you think of removing her shoes, or she may be very uncomfortable. You may also need to be aware that false negatives for Cushings are common, though they seem to be more reliable at this time of year because the change of season affects them, which is what you may be seeing in her feet now.
Click to expand...

this plus also test for IR whilst the vet is there. ie glucose and insulin.
Before you test it will be worthwhile joining phoenix (if you are not already on there) and reading through the PPID (cushings) and EMS section to give you some ideas. Also well worth reading is
http://www.talkaboutlaminitis.co.uk/ (it is not just about laminitis but cushings and EMS/IR)
 
As discussed guys please see pics...hope they work, they were the best I could do before the battery ran out!

left fore
http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s320x320/578502_528168987194689_666153606_n.jpg

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/229905_528169130528008_539221149_n.jpg

Right Fore

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/314258_528169043861350_1640481815_n.jpg

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s320x320/559559_528169060528015_798268997_n.jpg

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s320x320/527332_528169080528013_789848813_n.jpg

Blacksmith was up in my absence yesterday and put wedges on her...and i am not very happy her poor wee feet don't look too good and she is sore on them. He said no sign of lami also .
 
asommerville said:
As discussed guys please see pics...hope they work, they were the best I could do before the battery ran out!

left fore
http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s320x320/578502_528168987194689_666153606_n.jpg

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/229905_528169130528008_539221149_n.jpg

Right Fore

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/314258_528169043861350_1640481815_n.jpg

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s320x320/559559_528169060528015_798268997_n.jpg

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s320x320/527332_528169080528013_789848813_n.jpg

Blacksmith was up in my absence yesterday and put wedges on her...and i am not very happy her poor wee feet don't look too good and she is sore on them. He said no sign of lami also .
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how farrier can say no sign of lami??! She's sore... thats a sign in itself... They don't all show 'classic' outward signs. She has VERY significant flare - that shows a weakening of the structures (the laminae) inside her feet... I think I can also see a bulge on the white foot about 5mm down from the corronet. that shows a metabolic 'event' that occurred about a month ago... perhaps the colic but perhaps the colic was due to something else. It is absolutely no suprise that she is sore.

My advice still stands. Cut as much of the sugar out of her diet as possible. Watch the grass, soak hay and give her a good hoof supplement on top of a reduced sugar and starch 'hard' feed..

That said the issue with her pedal bone could contribute to her lameness...

How is she today? how much turnout has she had?
 
you know i never realised just how flared they were until.i had been rolling about the floor last night taking pics, i had just noticed that they seemed to be geting flatter.
today just v sore when turning and a bit sensitive straight but could be due to the wedges.

she has been in since wed and seems much better, also spoke to yo and shell get back onto hay (if she eats it) yo spoke to farrier yesterday and he apparantly said - shes an old horse and has degenerative pedal bone thats really it, didnt suggest anything else to do.

ill join the phoenix forum and speak to the vet re the cushings and Ir, i know i sound stupid but i feel.like no ones taking me seriosuly :-( (vet/farrier) i need her feet to get better.
 
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