HORSES,FIREWORKS & INJURY LIABILITY?

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liveryblues

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Hi all... Its just a hypothetical question but if a horse was injured, say out in a field (none of mine were thank god but they were really frightened) could a neighbour who was letting of fire works directly over our paddock be found liable for any costs incurred for injuries??
Like I have said it hasnt happened... well not to me and I hope no one else's horses have either injured themselves or been injured.
Do you think the insurance company would try to recover vets bills etc?? Can it be argued that as a direct result of fireworks going of say 50 yards away, the person responsible for lighting fireworks can be help accountable??
I wanted to punch my neighbour right out last night but was to busy trying to talk to and calm my bunch (who are usually a nice chilled lot) out in the field. ( no stables, only field shelters and they would not go any were near them last night :( They were ok with all the other fireworks but when neighbour started literally at the edge of our paddock it was too much, too close!
 
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Doubt it or else claim for all disturbances, hubby had pheasant from shoot break wind screen annoying but dont suppose he could claim but similar idea.
 
hmm see your point... did he try to claim? I know if you damage your car on a pothole insurance companies often get the cost of repairs etc off the local authority responsible for maintaining highways.
 
Hmm I very much doubt it. Your neighbours were not breaking any laws by celebrating an annual tradition. I think the liability would rest on you being the responsible horse owner not taking precautions to safe-keep your animals if you knew you were putting them in a situation which could cause them injury or harm.
 
My understanding is that there is liability regarding fireworks. But as your horses were out, any claim would be adjusted.
 
I have a 6 acre paddock at home, I have always kept my horses there, they are out 24/7 with a field shelter, I have no stables. I am wondering how on earth I could be responsible for failing to keep them safe??
I know neghbour is not breaking any laws... I was just pondering the question.
As I see it my horses are perfectly safe, healthy and very well looked after, If a neighbour decides he is going to set fireworks of at the edge of my paddock and causes the horses to injure themselves as a direct result, I was asking if he could be liable??
Its hyperthetical as my horses did not injure themselves but I do think it is highly irresponsible to let off fire works so close to live stock :(
 
liveryblues said:
I have a 6 acre paddock at home, I have always kept my horses there, they are out 24/7 with a field shelter, I have no stables. I am wondering how on earth I could be responsible for failing to keep them safe??
I know neghbour is not breaking any laws... I was just pondering the question.
As I see it my horses are perfectly safe, healthy and very well looked after, If a neighbour decides he is going to set fireworks of at the edge of my paddock and causes the horses to injure themselves as a direct result, I was asking if he could be liable??
Its hyperthetical as my horses did not injure themselves but I do think it is highly irresponsible to let off fire works so close to live stock :(
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I think it would depend on whether they kept going when they saw the effect it was having on the horses.
One could argue that having seen the animals distressed, they continued to let the fireworks off, causing severe anxiety and distress to them which led to the injury.Dunno whether it would stand up in a court though
 
Hypothetically yes. But neighbour needs to be aware that the fireworks will distress the horses.
as a thatched home owner, i understand that i can claim against fireworks
 
marydoll said:
I think it would depend on whether they kept going when they saw the effect it was having on the horses.
One could argue that having seen the animals distressed, they continued to let the fireworks off, causing severe anxiety and distress to them which led to the injury.Dunno whether it would stand up in a court though
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Those were my thoughts marydoll. They did continue but luckily although my horses were very frightened, they did not run blind as it were, I stayed in the paddock trying to herd them to the far corner.
I am not interested in trying to take neighbour to court or anything like that. All my horses are insured. I was just wondering if the insurance companies would seek to take it up with those responsible for (in my eyes) directly causing any injuries :)
 
I am not a lawyer or an insurance adjuster so you would have to speak to them to get the definitive answer (if there is a definitive answer) to your question. None of my horses are afraid of loud bangs or flashing lights so it's not something I've ever had a mind to enquire about. My own personal thoughts are that the onus is on me as their owner to keep them safe and if an annual thing like firework night, which I know is going to be happening every single year, causes them distress then I would try to relieve the distress, either by moving them to a field away from the fireworks or spending time in the prior months to desensitising them from bangs and flashing lights. But that's me as I don't subscribe to the blame culture that seems to be rocking the world. Legally I have no idea, I'm sure some lawyer would be happy to take someones money if their horses were freaked out by something that someone else did.
 
Spring Feather said:
I am not a lawyer or an insurance adjuster so you would have to speak to them to get the definitive answer (if there is a definitive answer) to your question. None of my horses are afraid of loud bangs or flashing lights so it's not something I've ever had a mind to enquire about. My own personal thoughts are that the onus is on me as their owner to keep them safe and if an annual thing like firework night, which I know is going to be happening every single year, causes them distress then I would try to relieve the distress, either by moving them to a field away from the fireworks or spending time in the prior months to desensitising them from bangs and flashing lights. But that's me as I don't subscribe to the blame culture that seems to be rocking the world. Legally I have no idea, I'm sure some lawyer would be happy to take someones money if their horses were freaked out by something that someone else did.
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The question as I pointed out to begin with was hypothetical, my lot are fine with just about everything & I would consider them all bomb proof. I cannot move them, having explosive rockets set off on the edge of their paddock was I am afraid a little bit to much for them! Those loud bangs & flashing lights that were even 4 houses away were not a problem but unfortunately the ones firing over their paddock were. Nothing to do with desensitizing etc! In fact the night before we had the most massive thunder & lightning storm... all horses were fine! I will point out again.... I was just wondering if insurance companies would or could seek to recover costs if they could prove liability?
Ps spring feather.... I was just asking a hypothetical question, I was not looking to get into an arguement or be frowned upon as a despicable horse owner who cannot keep her horses safe or part of the blame culture etc etc.... I just wondered what others thought about liability via insurance etc.. :)
 
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my OH is a lawyer, i just asked him and he said he didnt know it was 'not his field' useless sod ;) but he said if injuries were caused to livestock or property by reckless or dangerous behaviour you could have a case for a claim but in the long run it would probably cost you more in legal fees than worth pursuing (not sure on insurance stance on this)

also, as they were your neigbors they would have been more than aware horses were in that field 24/7 and IF they set off fireworks close to the perimeter of this field so fireworks were likely to land on your property that would go along way to showing recklessness and behaving without due care.

personally, i think fireworks should be banned from sale to numpties. :D
 
I would think that in this day and age when if you fart and the wind is in the wrong direction you can be sued that yes you could claim against neighbours causing injury to your horses by firing rockets over your land
 
On phone so apologies if posts read a bit curt.
please carefully check you field for fireworks de bris if neighbouir aimed over your field. Neighbour did it to us once- no horses at home- but field was littered with debris. Said debris returned to neighbour as litter. No fireworks since....
 
liveryblues said:
In fact the night before we had the most massive thunder & lightning storm... all horses were fine!
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Devils advocate: Did you go out in the thunder and lightning storm trying to herd the horses into a corner of the field as you did last night on firework night? I wonder had you left them alone last night, rather than going out, herding them into a specific area of your field and possibly transferring your anxieties onto them, whether they would have been fine with the fireworks too? Are your horses used to you going out herding them up at night time? Hypothetically speaking, as I see you prefer hypothesism, it could be argued that you were responsible for hyping up the horses?

I will point out again.... I was just wondering if insurance companies would or could seek to recover costs if they could prove liability?
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And I'll point out again that we clearly do not know therefore you should speak to an insurance adjuster or a lawyer :)
 
Spring Feather said:
Devils advocate: Did you go out in the thunder and lightning storm trying to herd the horses into a corner of the field as you did last night on firework night? I wonder had you left them alone last night, rather than going out, herding them into a specific area of your field and possibly transferring your anxieties onto them, whether they would have been fine with the fireworks too? Are your horses used to you going out herding them up at night time? Hypothetically speaking, as I see you prefer hypothesism, it could be argued that you were responsible for hyping up the horses?


And I'll point out again that we clearly do not know therefore you should speak to an insurance adjuster or a lawyer :)
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What a strange thing to say?? or assume??
I overlook the paddock and yes I could see them through out the storm, every flash lit the entire paddock up! all happily grazing!
I kept a watchfull eye on bonfire night from same bedroom window....all was fine but they were clearly pannicked as soon as next door started... of which I had no warning therefor could not transfer my anxieties! I could clearly see them running around in cirlcles, I was very worried they would run through electric fencing( which I had quickly turned off on way out to try to settle/move) they were trapped in the paddock closest to the fireworks... there was an opening into the next paddock but they would not go nearer the fire works in order to escape into next paddock!
As I live at home with my horses they are very used to me going out at all hours to check on them and to walk the dogs... I find it really odd that you continue to question my care of my horses instead of adressing my OP? If you had no opinion on the liability etc other than to blame me then you were kind of missing the point!
Also I wasnt seeking legal advice as I keep pointing out it was a HYPOTHETICAL question and I was asking for others thoughts on it, some seem to agree with my view point some not, thats fine! I wasnt seeking legal advice either otherwise I would clearly have sought out a professional!

am actually laughing at reading that back... I could be responsible for hyping my own horses up??? my god what funny ideas some poeple have! I have owned horses for over 30 years and would credit myself with a reasonable amount of knowledge, how funny on this forum that so often people make so many wrong assumptions & question others? God you got to love that holier than thow attitude... strols of to pannick my own horses.... again lolol :)
 
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Just to add in another aspect...could a farmer claim for loss of either feed/bedding/animals if one of those god forsaken Chinese lanterns set fire to or was ingested by one of the options??
Ps glad i kept my tb in last night with small dose of calmer as this morn 2 lanterns in field which he had a good spook and snort over so god help me if he had been out and they had blown toward him from the sky not just been on the ground!! Before anyone says he is being despooked but easier said than done with his brain!
 
OP no idea with regard to claims or not.

However, is it worth you having a chat with your neighbours and asking them to let you know in advance if they are planning to set fireworks off in future? If you point out that you don't want the horses to be scared as it could result in a big vet bill they may understand why you want to know!

We went to a party last night 1/2 mile from the field I keep my horse in. We popped down to see the horses 5 minutes before the fireworks were due to go off. Who bought the loudest, scariest firework? My non-horsey husband!! I think this demonstrates how the non horsey community have no idea how much distress their purchases can cause! Bless him he was really pleased with what he'd bought until I pointed out the ones with the big bangs terrify my horse!!! He'd been careful to put blinds down and leave the radio on for the dogs, but just hadn't thought about the horse.
 
dizzydancer said:
Just to add in another aspect...could a farmer claim for loss of either feed/bedding/animals if one of those god forsaken Chinese lanterns set fire to or was ingested by one of the options??
Ps glad i kept my tb in last night with small dose of calmer as this morn 2 lanterns in field which he had a good spook and snort over so god help me if he had been out and they had blown toward him from the sky not just been on the ground!! Before anyone says he is being despooked but easier said than done with his brain!
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I wonder if that is possible?? I am sure I read somewhere that forest fires started by a careless smoker or someone leaving a glass bottle would or could? be prosectuted?(if police were able to identify the culprit). Lanterns in fields (if a farmer could prove were it came from) would be a very similar scenario I would of thought?
interesting to hear others thoughts on whether its just bad luck or whether people carrying out really careless acts should be accountable? :)
 
well my dad is a solicitor not in equine but generally a dab hand with some knowledge of all aspects of law so i will ask him when i see him,,,not till next weekend tho i imagine...keep waiting!!
 
juliette said:
OP no idea with regard to claims or not.

However, is it worth you having a chat with your neighbours and asking them to let you know in advance if they are planning to set fireworks off in future? If you point out that you don't want the horses to be scared as it could result in a big vet bill they may understand why you want to know!

We went to a party last night 1/2 mile from the field I keep my horse in. We popped down to see the horses 5 minutes before the fireworks were due to go off. Who bought the loudest, scariest firework? My non-horsey husband!! I think this demonstrates how the non horsey community have no idea how much distress their purchases can cause! Bless him he was really pleased with what he'd bought until I pointed out the ones with the big bangs terrify my horse!!! He'd been careful to put blinds down and leave the radio on for the dogs, but just hadn't thought about the horse.
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I will definitely be having a word next year (mid october!) :)
I am not anti fireworks completely. I do think its seems ridiculous that pretty much anyone can go and buy explosives over the counter yet we must have licences for firearms etc! I really do think that fireworks should be restricted to properly organised displays, so many people get injured every year along with all the terrified animals & wildlife :(
 
If injury occurred you would have to prove that the fireworks caused the injury and that might be the hard part unless you had evidence that left no doult that fireworks were the cause of any injury and who sent them off . I don't think it would be good enough to say it was bonfire night and they live next door you would need proof, and even then the courts might take the view that you ought to have made other arrangements for your horses. I also doult that an insurance company would seek to recover any pay out they made you from a third party i think they would take the view that it would be expensive to prove that a third party was liable.
 
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