Horses for meat - Yes or No?

I have no problem with horse meat or any other meat, it is the way in which the animal is handled prior to it becoming 'meat' that is the issue for me! If horse meat were eaten in this country, then at least passports would have a wider relevance, due to drugs administered and signing the declaration for human consumption or not....
 
Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end. What are your options? Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper? Why not utilize them for the greater good? Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh. It's what he'd want.
 
millreef said:
Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end. What are your options? Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper? Why not utilize them for the greater good? Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh. It's what he'd want.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^ EXACTLY!! Well said :cool:
 
millreef said:
Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end. What are your options? Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper? Why not utilize them for the greater good? Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh. It's what he'd want.
Click to expand...

Lets be adult about this
 
millreef said:
Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end. What are your options? Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper? Why not utilize them for the greater good? Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh. It's what he'd want.
Click to expand...

May I ask if you eat meat?

Sandylou said:
^^^^^^ EXACTLY!! Well said :cool:
Click to expand...

Really? In what way?

Blacklist said:
Lets be adult about this
Click to expand...

Agree...
 
I'm not a vegan, so I'd be a hypocrite if I said others shouldn't eat horses, but that said, I saw some "Pferderouladen" on a market stall the other day, and felt sick at the sight of it.

I've been doing a huge amount of research on horsemeat for a future book project, and while I can understand the arguments on both sides, I wonder about the practicalities of expanding the horse meat biz. It's a bit of an "either or", really. Historically, people ate horses in quantity only when there were lots of surplus equines around. Just now, we have a surplus, but I doubt horses are particularly economical to farm purely for meat.

Consumption went up a little in France during the BSE crisis, but it's falling overall, and there was a motion in the Italian parliament to ban horse meat last year (didn't get anywhere though). It doesn't seem that the general trend is towards eating more horseflesh, so it's unlikely that the horsemeat business is going to suddenly leap to a higher level of production and sop up the excess horses produced and then neatly drop back down once horse numbers are "under control".

Sorry if that was a little incoherent... sinus hell today.:)
 
SusannaF said:
Consumption went up a little in France during the BSE crisis, but it's falling overall, and there was a motion in the Italian parliament to ban horse meat last year (didn't get anywhere though). It doesn't seem that the general trend is towards eating more horseflesh, so it's unlikely that the horsemeat business is going to suddenly leap to a higher level of production and sop up the excess horses produced and then neatly drop back down once horse numbers are "under control".
Click to expand...

That's interesting. But my own experience with the French consumption is that 20 years ago it was very much akin to the comsumption of venison in this country - not your everyday meal, but also not fringe. Something you would treat yourself to at the restaurant or on a Sunday.

I also understood that demand went right up during and after the BSE crisis, but my information is about 8 years old, so confidence in beef might be on the up.

GinnieRedwings said:
The issue is not the rights or wrongs of eating horse meat. The issue is what a market-driven industry pushes less scrupulous people to do for money.

I'm not sure I can morally ever come to terms with that...
Click to expand...

Apologies for quoting myself but ultimately I think for us horse owners, this debate should be whether the existence of a market for horse meat wouldn't actually mean more trouble for us in terms of thefts, etc...
 
Last edited:
millreef said:
Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end. What are your options? Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper? Why not utilize them for the greater good? Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh. It's what he'd want.
Click to expand...

What!! Are you for real??? But you know what while you have bought it up, why not, save the NHS a whole heap of money. Animals have a right to be treated humanly & with compassion, but your argument is bloody stupid.
 
millreef said:
Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end. What are your options? Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper? Why not utilize them for the greater good? Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh. It's what he'd want.
Click to expand...

Sportznight said:
In fact, never mind about eating meat at all, what about cheese? Eggs? Biscuits? Fish? What about wearing leather? Using glue? etc etc etc... Where do you start/stop?
Click to expand...

Sorry, but this is silly...

Shouldn't this choice be left to the individual? Like chosing to be a vegetarian or not eat black pudding?

It is fact that most human beings, given the choice and access to it, WILL eat meat in one form or another - some might even argue that we have elvolved to eat animal protein and that is necessary to our health.

Is there any need to be judgemental either way on what is effectively a personal choice?

Don't we all think that the tiny minority of people who think that eating meat at all makes you a murderer are nutters? So why act the same way about people who would eat horse meat?
 
Hey - as long as its not my horse on the plate! Although, Chance would keep us going for a long time!! ;):D

Ive heard its really nice, very much like a beef steak but richer.
 
GinnieRedwings said:
That's interesting. But my own experience with the French consumption is that 20n years ago it was very much akin to the comsumption of venison in this country - not your everyday meal, but also not fringe. Something you would treat yourself to at the restaurant or on a Sunday.

I also understood that demand went right up during and after the BSE crisis, but my information is about 8 years old, so confidence in beef might be on the up.
Click to expand...

I think (without checking) that Italy are the biggest consumers and importers in Europe. But yes, the number of horse butchers in France is falling (the fact that they are required to specialise in horse meat tells you something too). There's allegedly a horse butcher somewhere in Berlin, but I've only seen it for sale "fresh" once, or as a jar of sausages which never seems to sell.
The most recent attempts by chefs in the UK and Australia to put horse meat on the menu have resulted in death threats, and the US is even more anti-slaughter than we are, so it's probably not going to catch on there, although there was a pilot scheme to market it on the east coast in the 1970s which did very well – until the beef lobby got wind of it.

Actually - the politics of it are another thing to take into account. The beef, lamb and pork lobbies probably don't want a brand new competitor in their market, and they will have more cash to spend on rubbishing horse meat than any nascent horse-meat industry could spend promoting itself.
 
millreef said:
Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end. What are your options? Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper? Why not utilize them for the greater good? Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh. It's what he'd want.
Click to expand...

LMAO - sorry, i found that really funny :D:D
 
posie_honey said:
yup - i'd happily eat horse

i eat meat so in for a penny in for a pound - i wont put one type of animals life as having more value than another - to me that's hypicritical.

but i do care about humane living conditions, travelling and slaughter - for me that's more of an issue
Click to expand...

Here here, well said ;)
 
eothain said:
why not? If there's a market opportunity, you might as well!
Horse would go well alongside the crocodile and ostrich (sp?) that i've already eaten!

I wouldn't mind eating some of the red rotten, good for nothing, wouldn't jump out of your way, nags of things i've experienced in this business!
Click to expand...

pmsl :d:d
 
SusannaF, thanks for that info. It's funny that after living in the UK for 20 years, I appear to have lost contact with the habits of my homeland :rolleyes:

When I lived in France, what could be called the far suburb of Paris, there was a horse butcher in every small to medium sized town. And yes, they did have to have separate premises from "normal" butchers. Some had 2 adjoining shops, one for horse meat, one for everything else.

Do you think the fall in the number of horse butchers might just be reflecting the fall in independent butcheries generally, due to the pressure of supermarkets, rather than a fall in horse meat comsumption generally?
 
GinnieRedwings said:
SusannaF, thanks for that info. It's funny that after living in the UK for 20 years, I appear to have lost contact with the habits of my homeland :rolleyes:

When I lived in France, what could be called the far suburb of Paris, there was a horse butcher in every small to medium sized town. And yes, they did have to have separate premises from "normal" butchers. Some had 2 adjoining shops, one for horse meat, one for everything else.

Do you think the fall in the number of horse butchers might just be reflecting the fall in independent butcheries generally, due to the pressure of supermarkets, rather than a fall in horse meat comsumption generally?
Click to expand...

Hope I'm not sounding like an obnoxious know-all – I shouldn't be telling you what France is like :o I appear to have become a horse-meat nerd...

My source said that horse meat accounts for only 1% of meat sold in France, and consumption has fallen by 12% in the last two years alone. It fell by 60% from 1980 to 2001, notwithstanding BSE – probably because there was a big scandal about transport conditions in 1983 and because there were several trichinosis (sp?) outbreaks in the 1970s/80s.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippophagie#France_2

(the French Wikipedia has loads on the subject. I had another statistical breakdown elsewhere but seem to have left it in the wrong folder. I'll have a look when I have time.)
 
SusannaF said:
Hope I'm not sounding like an obnoxious know-all – I shouldn't be telling you what France is like :o I appear to have become a horse-meat nerd...

My source said that horse meat accounts for only 1% of meat sold in France, and consumption has fallen by 12% in the last two years alone. It fell by 60% from 1980 to 2001, notwithstanding BSE – probably because there was a big scandal about transport conditions in 1983 and because there were several trichinosis (sp?) outbreaks in the 1970s/80s.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippophagie#France_2

(the French Wikipedia has loads on the subject. I had another statistical breakdown elsewhere but seem to have left it in the wrong folder. I'll have a look when I have time.)
Click to expand...

Not at all, I'm grateful! There are so many emotional issues surrounding this. French people have never been too bothered about what landed on our plates provided it tasted good ;), but just before I emigrated, the "Lutte contre l'hippophagie" people were begining to make a bit of noise though nothing like the "animal rights" :rolleyes: campainers here in England... thank goodness!

As I have said before, the only real issue I can see is how the emergence of a market for horse meat might affect the way some people involved with horses might chose to conduct "business", if there was more money to be made from selling to the meat man, than from riding horses...
 
millreef said:
Whilst we're on the subject... What about your elderly family members who have had a good life but a nearing the end. What are your options? Old folks home, expensive loft conversion, even more expensive live-in-helper? Why not utilize them for the greater good? Imagine, sitting around the dinner table passing around the gravy boat for a nice piece of great uncle Peter's thigh. It's what he'd want.
Click to expand...

I somehow don't see how you can compare eating horse meat, to eating "uncle Peter's thigh" :eek:

Some people in the world do not see horses as 'pets', I have a brother who does not and never will understand my 'obsession' with horses, but I am sure that the VAST majority of people have very deep feelings for there relatives.
 
Sportznight said:
GR, perhaps so, but my question(s) have merit (IMO ;) ) - where do you draw the line? It's a personal choice and for some a question of 'belief'.
Click to expand...

I happen to personally agree with you... but I try and not judge too hard, even if sometimes, it's a little hard to do ;) :rolleyes:

The question of "belief" is potentially a very dangerous one. It leads to people comparing animals to their great uncle Pete... and blow up the cars of scientists and set fire to people's family homes... It is better not to be too polarised and hope that by accepting my friend's choice to be a vegetarian, she won't call me a murderer for eating meat...
 
millreef said:
Perspective really, one mans bloody stupid is another mans irony.
Click to expand...

Except it takes it away from being a sensible discussion. Animals live by instinct (something we ignore for ourselves) & are happy so long as their basic needs are met. To start comparing them to humans is a waste of an argument. It is no where near the same as eating your relative just because they have gotten old. What do you suppose is happening to the surplus stock anyway? As I said I do not want to go as far as seeing horses farmed for meat, I also dont think that is necessary anyway as enough are produced as it is. I just dont think people need to feel guilty if they want to eat horse meat or any meat that is produced for consumption, by those that think of horses as pets, or in the same light as their cat or dog. Though obviously some cultures dont have a problem eating the family pet, but that is another subject.
 
GinnieRedwings said:
As I have said before, the only real issue I can see is how the emergence of a market for horse meat might affect the way some people involved with horses might chose to conduct "business", if there was more money to be made from selling to the meat man, than from riding horses...
Click to expand...

Quite! Especially as I can't imagine the spontaneous emergence of a legitimate horse-meat industry providing for the UK market. It would take too much capital and also require overturning centuries of British distaste for horse meat (which would be expensive).

I don't think our horse meat exports are rising either (I'd have to check though - given that China, Russia, Japan, etc still eat it, you'd have thought there would be a growing market).
 
GinnieRedwings said:
That's interesting. But my own experience with the French consumption is that 20 years ago it was very much akin to the comsumption of venison in this country - not your everyday meal, but also not fringe. Something you would treat yourself to at the restaurant or on a Sunday.

I also understood that demand went right up during and after the BSE crisis, but my information is about 8 years old, so confidence in beef might be on the up.



Apologies for quoting myself but ultimately I think for us horse owners, this debate should be whether the existence of a market for horse meat wouldn't actually mean more trouble for us in terms of thefts, etc...
Click to expand...

There already is a market for horse meat
 
magic104 said:
Though obviously some cultures dont have a problem eating the family pet, but that is another subject.
Click to expand...

I think you are wrong there, Magic, I think it is exactly the same subject.

It's about personal choice and cultural identity/habit, and thinking ill of the Chinese for eating dog meat is as wrong as a Muslim thinking ill of me for enjoying my bacon butty.
 
magic104 said:
Except it takes it away from being a sensible discussion. Animals live by instinct (something we ignore for ourselves) & are happy so long as their basic needs are met. To start comparing them to humans is a waste of an argument. It is no where near the same as eating your relative just because they have gotten old. What do you suppose is happening to the surplus stock anyway? As I said I do not want to go as far as seeing horses farmed for meat, I also dont think that is necessary anyway as enough are produced as it is. I just dont think people need to feel guilty if they want to eat horse meat or any meat that is produced for consumption, by those that think of horses as pets, or in the same light as their cat or dog. Though obviously some cultures dont have a problem eating the family pet, but that is another subject.
Click to expand...

Very good points
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top