Horses for Meat

pastie2 said:
When the horse is dead its dead, I know that, but dont you think allowing horses to be reared and bred for meat in this country that it would be the thin end of the wedge. More and more dealers would appear on the scene, fields will be full of horses fattening for slaughter, just look at the bigger picture. What do you think Jamie Grays business was!
Click to expand...

Horses are slaughtered in this country for meat, and the meat is exported. I have no issue with this. Jamie Gray was hardly going to make meat money off starving horses - as the recent H&H investigative articles say, that is not an explanation for what happened there.

At the end of the day, humane slaughter is not even on the top ten of bad things that can happen to horses, unfortunately. It is the world in which we live.
 
Spudlet I agree. I disagree with ANY animal travelling long journeys for slaughter.

Bad breeder-dealers already breed horses that shouldn't be bred. I went to York horse sales for the first time the other week, and somoe of the sorry states there were awful - I was almost hoping they went for meat in some cases.:(

I wouldn't be suprised if most people have eaten horse in some form of burger or sausage at some point in the past. Nobody cared so much about generics in the past..
 
skolliecrubycben said:
The difference between cows, sheep and pigs going to slaughter to feed mankind is that these animals were created for this purpose 2 hooved animals, they do not have the flight fright mind, whereas horses being a full hooved animal were created to carry man to fight his enemy and therefore this bond was formed. Yes horses not only carried their rider for many miles but they also did feed their rider at the end of the day when the rider (being in the army) had nothing left to survive on. The problem with the flight fright is that they do not do well at abbatoirs. Whilst i agree i would rather see them killed than suffer without food or water etc, but it is the fear that they have when at the abbatoir and the person pulling the gun bolt is a human they trusted in. I would say, but could be wrong, please correct me but 80% of horses sent to slaughter have been handled by man and were not bred for the meat trade and therefore had no dealings with man. It is a sad situation really and could cause a lot of upsets amongst good friends.
Click to expand...

LOL. You either have to laugh or cry at this, I decided to laugh!:D

Veal these days is more often than not raised in good conditions, and need no longer be avoided at all costs. I would check where it comes from though.

As to horsemeat, providing it has been slaughtered humanely and not transported hundreds of miles in bad conditions, there really is nothing wrong with it, if you choose to eat it (I don't, but...)
 
Spudlet said:
Horses are slaughtered in this country for meat, and the meat is exported. I have no issue with this. Jamie Gray was hardly going to make meat money off starving horses - as the recent H&H investigative articles say, that is not an explanation for what happened there.

At the end of the day, humane slaughter is not even on the top ten of bad things that can happen to horses, unfortunately. It is the world in which we live.
Click to expand...

Do you not think that there are many farmers looking after their cattle and sheep in the same way as JG. I can assure you that there are many, when the market goes down so does the income for these farmers, they just cannot afford to feed them. Anyway would you really like to be in the countryside with field after field of farmed horses. Cattle are looked after in a completely differant way than horses. Would you really like a farmer next to your land breeding for meat. Blimeythere is enough of a fuss on here if someone sees a horse with the wrong bloody rug on in a field!!!
 
Pastie, I assure you, I am being honest - horses bred for meat being treated humanely would not bother me. Fields of meat horses? - fine. As long as they are treated well - which does not necessarily mean being treated as riding horses are. A horse that has lived out in a herd with enough food, water, shelter etc has had a pretty good life IMO.

Horses of any kind being treated badly does bother me, and I take action when I see such things accordingly. I am not stupid, and I am not posting from a position of ignorance.

A question - what do you think happens to dartmoor hill ponies? Many of them go for meat. So in effect we already breed for meat in this country.
 
NO!! Chorizo doesn't have horse in it!! It is made from pork.

The only product sold in the UK that can legally contain horsemeat is salami.

I read that somewhere... it had better be true cos I love chorizo!!!

I won't eat horse, neither would I eat dog or cat. Anything that I had made friends with. I didn't used to eat lamb or beef til I realised that if they weren't bred for meat farmers wouldn't really breed them at all. I'd rather see fields full of animals and farmers making a living. It's different with horses, because they are bred to work or as 'pets', not for meat (in this country). If they were bred for meat I might consider eating them - if I didn't own one!!!
 
pastie2 said:
Do you not think that there are many farmers looking after their cattle and sheep in the same way as JG. I can assure you that there are many, when the market goes down so does the income for these farmers, they just cannot afford to feed them. Anyway would you really like to be in the countryside with field after field of farmed horses. Cattle are looked after in a completely differant way than horses. Would you really like a farmer next to your land breeding for meat. Blimeythere is enough of a fuss on here if someone sees a horse with the wrong bloody rug on in a field!!!
Click to expand...

??? Im not sure I quite understand you post pastie...

I imagine horses bred specifically for meat would be raised in very similar ways to beef cattle....?

What a farmer choses to do on his land is little of anyone elses business providing it is lawful, and I highly doubt our countryside will ever be filled with field after field of farmed horses - people can only eat so much meat! And I dont see a taste for beef and lamb disappearing overnight.

I think spudlets point is that if the slaughter is humane and as stress free transport wise as possible there shouldnt be a problem, I imagine this feeling would extend to all other animals for slaughter, or are you horse-biased spudlet?
 
Nope, I like all my meat as local and happy as possible. I probably wouldn't eat horsemeat because of the labelling issues I mentioned earlier though.

Horses do react v badly to long distance transport to slaughter, but then again so do pigs (to take a random example). So I prefer local meat whenever possible.
 
I have been enlightened by the majority of comments on my post. Maybe there should be a UK market for horse meat to be eaten here.

Just a thought though - there seems to be a lot of talk about transporting horses hundreds of miles for slaughter but I wonder how many horses are travelled hundreds of miles for competition within the UK?
 
horses transported hundreds of miles for compitition are generally transported in more comfortable plush roomy conditions and with more breaks than those going hundreds of miles for meat, additionally the compitition horess are given adequate breaks, food and water as they need to arrive at their destination in performance condition!
 
I suppose the difference between a slaughter horse and a top horse traveling for competitions is the care and conditions that go into the journey...

You did open a can of worms with this thread didn't you!

I went on a training camp once, with a top eventer teaching the xc. He liked my horse aged 7, and asked if I would sell him. The horse is so good I love him, and can do any sphere I want, but I said that I felt as though I ought to sell him as I'd never go as far with her as he would. He very honestly pointed out that he would have a much better life with me, and not get worked as hard etc.. It did make me think.
 
Blacklist said:
I have been enlightened by the majority of comments on my post. Maybe there should be a UK market for horse meat to be eaten here.

Just a thought though - there seems to be a lot of talk about transporting horses hundreds of miles for slaughter but I wonder how many horses are travelled hundreds of miles for competition within the UK?
Click to expand...
It's not the same - the conditions are incomparable.

Think about it - when you transport a horse to compete, or to race, or to breed, you need to arrive in a fit state to perform. So it gets plenty of space, rest, water, a well ventilated lorry etc.

A horse going to slaughter need only be fit to die.

Slaughter horses on the Continent get the bare minimum if they are lucky. The minimum legal space allowance for a horse is 70cm wide. Would you travel a horse in such a tigh partition for 24 hours? Cos I wouldn't!

The unlucky ones get even less space than that. They don't stop. They aren't offered water or food. They are packed in with other, strange horses, and they can't escape, so they fight over the top of the partitions.

http://www.youtube.com/user/horsecharity#p/u/16/ydk-uMEKngs This video shows what I mean.
 
Historically we have never eaten horsemeat in the UK because as an island race we have never been held to siege except for during the Second World War and into the 1950's when horsemeat was off the ration.
However, on the Continent where various nation states were constantly at war with their neighbours or in Napoleons case Russia, armies in retreat and starving towns and outlying areas were constantly forced to eat their horses, molluscs and frogs etc. until it became the norm.
 
Spudlet said:
Pastie, I assure you, I am being honest - horses bred for meat being treated humanely would not bother me. Fields of meat horses? - fine. As long as they are treated well - which does not necessarily mean being treated as riding horses are. A horse that has lived out in a herd with enough food, water, shelter etc has had a pretty good life IMO.

Horses of any kind being treated badly does bother me, and I take action when I see such things accordingly. I am not stupid, and I am not posting from a position of ignorance.

A question - what do you think happens to dartmoor hill ponies? Many of them go for meat. So in effect we already breed for meat in this country.
Click to expand...

I am well aware of the Dartmoor herd and the welsh ponies on the Brecon Hills, do you feel comfortable looking at such animals in a pen? Do you think that they have had an easy life? I have seen them at Carlisle sales, the meat man from the continant is there with his huge wagon with another huge trailer behind it. Do these ponies look like they have been looked after, do you think that their welfare has been paramount to the BREEDERS of these ponies. If the market is opened up to breed ponies for meat in this country, the welfare of these animals will be compromised.
 
Spudlet said:
It's not the same - the conditions are incomparable.

Think about it - when you transport a horse to compete, or to race, or to breed, you need to arrive in a fit state to perform. So it gets plenty of space, rest, water, a well ventilated lorry etc.

A horse going to slaughter need only be fit to die.

Slaughter horses on the Continent get the bare minimum if they are lucky. The minimum legal space allowance for a horse is 70cm wide. Would you travel a horse in such a tigh partition for 24 hours? Cos I wouldn't!

The unlucky ones get even less space than that. They don't stop. They aren't offered water or food. They are packed in with other, strange horses, and they can't escape, so they fight over the top of the partitions.

http://www.youtube.com/user/horsecharity#p/u/16/ydk-uMEKngs This video shows what I mean.
Click to expand...

Fistly my post was on the subject of horse slaughter in the UK - please don't misunderstand me I AM NOT in favour of travelling any 'meat' animal abroad for slaughter

In some cases the conditions are comparable (and not all competition horses are treated well when travelling especially if they are lorry or class fillers). In the UK there are maybe 6 horse slaughter houses so in some cases a horse may have to travel 200 miles plus for slaughter - UK rules state that all animals transported for long distances especially equines have to be properly rested etc whether travelling for competition or otherwise.

All our horses when the time comes travel to Derbyshire 70 miles away for humane slaughter - they live a good life. I would much rather they have one bad day in their lives (if they have to) after a good life than be passed around the auctions and ill-treated.
 
pastie2 said:
I am well aware of the Dartmoor herd and the welsh ponies on the Brecon Hills, do you feel comfortable looking at such animals in a pen? Do you think that they have had an easy life? I have seen them at Carlisle sales, the meat man from the continant is there with his huge wagon with another huge trailer behind it. Do these ponies look like they have been looked after, do you think that their welfare has been paramount to the BREEDERS of these ponies. If the market is opened up to breed ponies for meat in this country, the welfare of these animals will be compromised.
Click to expand...

If we opened things up in the UK it might make things better for the horse and put a stop to LIVE EXPORT for slaughter.
 
Doncella said:
Historically we have never eaten horsemeat in the UK because as an island race we have never been held to siege except for during the Second World War and into the 1950's when horsemeat was off the ration.
However, on the Continent where various nation states were constantly at war with their neighbours or in Napoleons case Russia, armies in retreat and starving towns and outlying areas were constantly forced to eat their horses, molluscs and frogs etc. until it became the norm.
Click to expand...

Up until a Papal ban of horse meat in 732 it was regulaly eaten in the British Isles and it continued in some parts until the middle ages.
 
Blacklist said:
Fistly my post was on the subject of horse slaughter in the UK - please don't misunderstand me I AM NOT in favour of travelling any 'meat' animal abroad for slaughter

In some cases the conditions are comparable (and not all competition horses are treated well when travelling especially if they are lorry or class fillers). In the UK there are maybe 6 horse slaughter houses so in some cases a horse may have to travel 200 miles plus for slaughter - UK rules state that all animals transported for long distances especially equines have to be properly rested etc whether travelling for competition or otherwise.

All our horses when the time comes travel to Derbyshire 70 miles away for humane slaughter - they live a good life. I would much rather they have one bad day in their lives (if they have to) after a good life than be passed around the auctions and ill-treated.
Click to expand...

Cattle are taken to market, sheep are taken to market, what makes you think that horses would go directly to the slaughter house. There has to be a market or else how would the meat man know what he was buying. That is if we are treating horses as a food product. They will be produced the same as sheep or cattle. Anyway why are you taking all your horses to slaughter, you sound like a meat dealer already. Are these your horses?
 
Blacklist said:
Up until a Papal ban of horse meat in 732 it was regulaly eaten in the British Isles and it continued in some parts until the middle ages.
Click to expand...

Agree, historically horse meat was eaten regularly until that ban.

Also, blind meat tasting in Italy has shown that meat from older horses (particularly over 8-10 years) actually tastes nicer and is more tender than younger meat.

I would eat horse meat if offered to try it, and no doubt I have eaten it in Italian sausage.
I really don't mind horses being used for meat so long as they are well treated and are humanely slaughtered without any stress and are then transported once dead. Long and stressful transport conditions are also detrimental to meat quality, same with cattle, sheep and pigs in this country.

I have been to potters and the horses are humanely slaughtered and are very well looked after, many of them grazing out in the fields around the site beforehand.

The UK has a huge taboo over eating horse meat as we have such a huge Equine Industry, and fair enough. I could not kill and eat my horse like I could with a chicken. I have seen herds of horses farmed for meat in Poland and it is no different to farmers having cattle in the UK.
 
sharon1959 said:
Nor me,could NEVER eat it.
.If you eat Italian Salami,your eating horse/donkey,foal. REALLY ITS TRUE.
Click to expand...

And, your point is? I take it you eat meat? You make it sound like your personal pet is being taken to put through the mincer! Horses make good meat. We domesticated them in the first place because of this, THEN we found we could train and ride them. They don't HAVE to be domesticated, trained and ridden any more than sheep, cattle or camels do. It's what we CHOOSE to do to them - to teach them that humans are okay and form a relationship with them.

Pastie, the sheep on the farm where my horse is kept are born and raised here, but they do NOT go to market. The meat man comes to the farm, checks them over, offers a price and they go directly to slaughter.
 
Also the UK is very good for its abattoirs. I read some research saying that in Brazil, about 80% is (cant quite remember the figures) did not die on the first attempt....and about 57% of the horses returned to some sort of sensibility (neighing) whilst hung on the hooks (supposedly dead).

and agree with above, horses were domesticated in the first place so humans could use them for meat. Who are we to say that the rest Europe is sick and wrong for eating horse. IMO it is the stress and horrible conditions during travel and slaughter at some places that is wrong.
 
Last edited:
Don't really want to get into this debate... but just to clarify, not all slaughter animals get taken to market first. Most of the time they are picked up from the farm at a designated time and driven straight to the slaughter house. This cuts down on the travelling time, as well as the stress of being taken to the market and then taken to slaughter. A lot of the animals that go through markets (for sheep anyway), are not there to be sold as slaughter animals.
I also agree, that it's very much about the dignity that you give your animals, be they sheep, cattle or horses, that counts. A good stockman knows this and will always ensure that 'their' animals are looked after in the best possible manner.
 
I have eaten horse meat in the past and would in the future, there was a horse abbatoir near us in the past, which I had no problem with at all. All our horses are shot at home when the time comes, but I have no problem with people who take them to slaughter, provided the animal is not stressed by travelling etc, I keep pet sheep, but still eat lamb and mutton, just not my own animals, feel much the same about horses. The issue with dog or cat is different to my mind as they are carniverous. I do eat pig meat and sometimes wonder about this as they are omniverous, it seems more intuatively right to eat only herbivors.
 
heather_bambi said:
Also the UK is very good for its abattoirs. I read some research saying that in Brazil, about 80% is (cant quite remember the figures) did not die on the first attempt....and about 57% of the horses returned to some sort of sensibility (neighing) whilst hung on the hooks (supposedly dead).

and agree with above, horses were domesticated in the first place so humans could use them for meat. Who are we to say that the rest Europe is sick and wrong for eating horse. IMO it is the stress and horrible conditions during travel and slaughter at some places that is wrong.
Click to expand...

This one thing troubles me about eating any meat. When is an animal actually dead? I watched an episode of kill it cook it eat it where the lambs kicked out after they had had their throats bled - were they conscious then? Able to suffer pain? how long after an animal has been bled does it lose consciousness and ability to feel pain?

I do eat meat - I don't consciously eat horse - I just don't want to but don't have a problem with others doing so.

However - I do have a problem with horses raised as pets being taken to the slaughterhouse. It smells of death, I have witnessed for myself a horse's stark fear when they come off the box to the smells and sounds at a slaughterhouse. How any domesticated horse's owner can want this to be their horse's last experience is beyond me.
 
Kate Sturgess said:
And, your point is? I take it you eat meat? You make it sound like your personal pet is being taken to put through the mincer! Horses make good meat. We domesticated them in the first place because of this, THEN we found we could train and ride them. They don't HAVE to be domesticated, trained and ridden any more than sheep, cattle or camels do. It's what we CHOOSE to do to them - to teach them that humans are okay and form a relationship with them.

Pastie, the sheep on the farm where my horse is kept are born and raised here, but they do NOT go to market. The meat man comes to the farm, checks them over, offers a price and they go directly to slaughter.
Click to expand...

Yes and no doubt they are sold on dead weight on the computer, we sold lambs like that from Cumbria, they were picked up on sunday and transported to Wales and sold as welsh lamb. I have been involved in farming most of my life. Our sheep went to slaughter to,via Wales!
 
Naturally said:
This one thing troubles me about eating any meat. When is an animal actually dead? I watched an episode of kill it cook it eat it where the lambs kicked out after they had had their throats bled - were they conscious then? Able to suffer pain? how long after an animal has been bled does it lose consciousness and ability to feel pain?
Click to expand...

Apparently a lot of animals will seem to twitch/kick during this...arghh I can't remember exactly but it is something to do with their muscles, supposedly though the animal is dead/unconscious. It is one of those questions though that no one can answer unless you can go through that experience but come back to tell everyone!
 
pastie2 said:
we sold lambs like that from Cumbria, they were picked up on sunday and transported to Wales and sold as welsh lamb.
Click to expand...

Sadly this happens a lot, a lot of horses are transported from elsewhere, say from here to Italy. Held in Italy for a certain number of hours...and can then be slaughtered and sold as "Italian" horse meat!
 
heather_bambi said:
Also the UK is very good for its abattoirs. I read some research saying that in Brazil, about 80% is (cant quite remember the figures) did not die on the first attempt....and about 57% of the horses returned to some sort of sensibility (neighing) whilst hung on the hooks (supposedly dead).

and agree with above, horses were domesticated in the first place so humans could use them for meat. Who are we to say that the rest Europe is sick and wrong for eating horse. IMO it is the stress and horrible conditions during travel and slaughter at some places that is wrong.
Click to expand...

Goodness - that is shocking.

I have no problem with horses for meat - I think that there are far worse destinations for them! I have no real problems eating them either (never know they were in chorizo though... humm, I love chorizo! Still gonna eat it though!) as far as I am concerned, any animal - correctly slaughtered and prepared is food. Just because we have chosen to domesticate them doesn't change that. I don't know if I would eat one of my horses... you know what, I probably would. Once an animal is dead it is meat. Regardless of its living form.

My view is that as long as the slaughtering process is correct and it has been as humane as possible then I have no problem. I do however have strong views that that process (and it's precursors - such as no long distance travelling) should be of the highest possible welfare standards.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top