Horses in a herd at livery- very large herd

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ApolloStorm

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So I viewed a livery yard yesterday, and it was seemingly well run, stables/ facilities nice, etc. but something which concerned me (actually put me off) is that they run all the horses together in the herd. There is 60 stables!! 60! looks to be plenty of pasture to support that number, but surely having that number of horses big and small is asking for trouble. There is a few fatties who go in fat paddocks in the summer. I need to send her a message to clarify, but I asked about the turnout situation, and she said " oh they all get mixed in together" My mare can be a smidge of a bossy boots, so know full well she'd get herself into trouble, she's been in a mixed herd before and did come in with a few minor scrapes. once we moved to mares/geldings that all seemed to stop. My gelding is bottom rung, he's older, never causes any bother, so not too worried about him!
So, do any of you have horses in enormous herds that work- or should I avoid?
 
Our old livery yard had big herds, but they were split mares and geldings at least. Two of my geldings had bad field injuries that wrote them both off, as young horses. The herd was over 50 horses. It's not something I would want to go back to.
 
ApolloStorm said:
So I viewed a livery yard yesterday, and it was seemingly well run, stables/ facilities nice, etc. but something which concerned me (actually put me off) is that they run all the horses together in the herd. There is 60 stables!! 60! looks to be plenty of pasture to support that number, but surely having that number of horses big and small is asking for trouble. There is a few fatties who go in fat paddocks in the summer. I need to send her a message to clarify, but I asked about the turnout situation, and she said " oh they all get mixed in together" My mare can be a smidge of a bossy boots, so know full well she'd get herself into trouble, she's been in a mixed herd before and did come in with a few minor scrapes. once we moved to mares/geldings that all seemed to stop. My gelding is bottom rung, he's older, never causes any bother, so not too worried about him!
So, do any of you have horses in enormous herds that work- or should I avoid?
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60 is a huge heard for domestic horses. We run 25 mixed sexes and sizes and types together and we approached by a university research project because it was so rare to find big herds (of well-kept horses that were non-retired/still in use/etc). We have 40 acres for our 25. In summer, they split into smaller groups; in winter they tend to hang out around the hay feeders. If I had 200 acres I can't imagine 60 would be any harder to manage, as they have enough space to avoid the ones they don't like and make mini-herds with their mates. I would want to see things like - water troughs, hay stations, etc .. I'd want to watch such a herd and their use of space and behaviour towards each other very carefully before introducing my own. Even with 25, however, the existing horses don't take much notice of new comers.
 
I was at a livery yard with herds of up to 10 mares or geldings to a field. The upside was that there were always horses out so no horse was ever left alone. The downside was that it all got a bit giddy on wild winter nights - you’d be trying to catch your horse and they’d all be hoolying around. Jostling at the gates was quit intimidating too. I’m not sure I’d go back to that. We have field pairs where I am now.
 
When I was a teenager I was at a livery yard like this. Upside was huge fields, on a hillside, so the horses were always half fit!

Downside was a huge number of injuries. Plus trying to extricate your horse from the melee.

I would not go there again. I prefer back shoes off for large heards, plus splitting mares and geldings.
 
The yard where I’m at has big herds, I think there’s 15 in one massive field, from shetlands to an 18hh. Other massive field has 8 in.

Mine is in a smaller field with one other.

Seems to work, they are careful with introducing and they are very stable herds with very little coming and going.

In the spring/summer/autumn the good doers are electric fenced into smaller paddocks.

Just to add, that extracting horses can be interesting!!! From past experience, especially if mixed herds. Geldings can be a PITA when trying to get mares away.
 
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I've seen it work well if it's properly managed, but there are logistical difficulties - extracting one horse could be difficult (less so if they don't all follow a set in/out routine and are expecting to come in), but more importantly the acreage required is so large that catching something that doesn't want to come to call can take forever. Less useful for horses in regular work or stabled part of the time each day; most useful for 24/7 turnout and horses that don't need to be brought in much.
 
When I first moved to my old yard, which is a riding school, all of the horses - both school and private - would be out together. This was about 30 horses. Turnout and bring in was easy, as for turnout they just used to tape off the access points and open the stables, and the horses would just run out to the field. The same with bringing in - tape off the road access, then open the gate to let the horses in in ones and twos, and have someone at the box end to close the doors behind them. All of the horses knew where their boxes were.

While the herd was stable it worked really well, unfortunately as time went on, there were more comings and goings, and as a result more injuries occurred.

So, having seen how it can work, it wouldn’t put me off going back to that type of environment.
 
When we bought Sasha, 6 years ago, she was ex polo pony and was kept in a big 25+ herd....we moved her to our livery yard, and she was kept with my gelding, in med size field..thats when we found out she was PITA (pain in the ****) to catch .
Polo yard groom told us all of them were herded in to a yard together, so none were caught on own thus she refused to be caught on her own . Took us years to get her to come to a bucket in the field.
 
I like big herds but much over 10-15 Id start worrying about my safety bringing in. My ponies are only small :p You’d need help with the gate realistically. You also need to be confident you can catch them as you can’t just get 50+ horses in if yours decides it doesn’t fancy coming in that day! Our biggest field is only 10 acres so we generally stick to smaller groups. Size wouldn’t bother me we’ve always had our 9.1 in with whatever we have from fellow shetlands to maxi cobs to big WBs, if we’d had a heavy he’d have been fine with that too.
 
My main thought is that if you have 60 horses in a field that's a bloomin big field.
would you soon get fed up of the horse you want being at the other end of it :p.

I grew up doing the run in and out thing, I wouldn't want it for one of my own.
 
It's do-able but they all need to be on the same in/ out routine so they all come in as a herd and then get separated or they need to be out 24/7 and yours needs to be good to catch!
 
its ok if they are on about 150 acres and there are no new introductions to upset things. sounds like right nightmare tbh
 
ester said:
My main thought is that if you have 60 horses in a field that's a bloomin big field.
would you soon get fed up of the horse you want being at the other end of it :p.

I grew up doing the run in and out thing, I wouldn't want it for one of my own.
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My thoughts too, especially as many horse owners are time poor. It would take a huge amount of time to walk such a large field/fields and find your horse. I worked in a riding school as a teenager and will never forget holding dear old Turpin for an hour whilst help was sought to destroy him. The school ran 80 plus horses on a huge fields, and the injuries were awful. The place is now a huge housing estate and I when I drive past I still think of that old horse. Of course a pair of horses can and do hurt themselves, but huge herds pose huge risks and not something I would consider.
 
I wouldn't personally keep in such a large herd for the simple reason that I wouldn't feel safe getting my horse out of there if the herd were being silly or if they all decided to follow - that number of loose horses and 1 or 2 caught ones would make me feel very nervous lol (yes I am a wimp).
 
My SIL kept her horse on a yard like this, mixed herd of about 25 horses and she used to rave about how wonderful it was, however, when she lost her old mare (who was the top mare) and bought another mare she was unable to ride it for the best part of 6 months because it kept getting injured. She has now moved to a yard with small single sex herds. Nuff said!
 
I think it works if;
Acerage is plentiful
Plenty of water troughs
The average has a few different fields and hedgelines
There is a core group.in the herd living out and happy to do so.
When I was a kid there was a yard near me that had one field about 8 stables and upwards of 40 horses and ponies living out as one herd. There was never an issue, no supplementary feeding was given in the field and a lot of horses came in just once a week.
Most of the horses came to call if they were close enough to hear you and they would be in the same area at the same time each day
 
My old yard had this. Because my mare was nasty around food she wasn't allowed to.mix with the herd (for fear of her kicking humans catching their horses with treats) & so I was lucky enough to be in a separate paddock.

I say lucky because owner would have to wander around 20 acres of muddy winter field after work to find their horse. You'd then have to risk leading them through 30+ horses to the gate. If the herd were hungry or agitated then there was all sorts of problems getting through the gate.

Plus I saw more nasty injuries and PTS there than any other yard.
 
twiggy2 said:
There was never an issue, no supplementary feeding was given in the field and a lot of horses came in just once a week.
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In today's modern horse keeping world, why would anyone want a horse that came in once a week ? My rabble often come and and out 2 or more times a day.
 
That would be very unusual OP, so worth clarifying with the YO. Perhaps when she said they all go out together she just meant they don't split mares/ geldings?

I would think that for a livery yard, running 60 horses together would be a logistical nightmare. Just finding your own horse in the presumably huge field, and then getting it out of the gate would, I imagine, be quite challenging. It just sounds quite an unlikely scenario on a livery yard, so I'be interested to know if it really is the case.

I do prefer herd turnout but I have mine in a pair currently as one is very hard to catch. Herd turnout is impossible with him!
 
Having had a £2000 vet bill for a kick to a hock plus another time hearing my horse had been found on the road as he'd jumped 3 fences to get away from a bully, it sounds like my idea of hell! (And there's the numerous rugs that have been torn)
 
We have a yard nearby with 30 horses turned out in one field. It has one gateway in and out of the turnout field which is a treacherous mud pit. To go get your horse you have to battle through the big gate hoggers who hang around asking anyone with a head collar to bring them in. Every time a new horse is introduced to the herd there are injuries. In the summer about fifty percent of the horse’s are brought in and ridden and the others are lucky if they get glanced at once a week and go feral. The horses are compulsorily wormed every six weeks too. Not a nice place.
 
My first yard had two large fields - one for the 24 mares and one for the 30 geldings. It was a nightmare especially in winter, no grass and knee deep mud at the gate. Bringing in was a 3 man job - one to open and close the gate, one to lead in and one to keep the dominant horses away. I was only there 3 months. In that time there were two serious horse injuries resulting in broken bones and less serious injuries happened every day. A few people also got injured too - mainly from kicks off other horses while trying to bring in. Never again.
 
ApolloStorm said:
My gelding is bottom rung, he's older, never causes any bother, so not too worried about him!
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Actually I would worry about him, more so if he has any lameness issues eg arthritis. He's just the sort of thing to get pushed around by anything with the hump because it's nearing their dinner time, when it's autumn/winter and the grass is getting low. IME large mixed herds suit younger horses who aren't going to go lame if chased around a bit and who are more able to stick up for themselves. It can be a nightmare getting a "bottom-rung" horse out of the field past more dominant types at the gate who are attempting to chase it away. It's difficult to fight off even one such horse, even if yours is an angel to lead and will do exactly as you ask whilst you try to shoo the other away. If there's more than one going for your horse there's a risk of you being injured, never mind horse injuries.
 
I would question this and then go and see how it was all managed. If it is managed well I could see it working.

We have herd turnout, 12 horses on
about 30 acres. Ten years ago there were 20 horses on the same land, as the yard owner had more horses back then.
We've never had much of a problem, there is one bolshy gelding who has been here 2 years who has quite upset the older geldings and head mare, but thankfully no injuries from him and he is leaving in Summer. On the odd occasion that the idiot gelding is cause trouble near the gate a lunge whip is very helpful.
If the herd was any bigger I would worry about gateway safety and mud in winter, it could be nightmarish
 
AdorableAlice said:
In today's modern horse keeping world, why would anyone want a horse that came in once a week ? My rabble often come and and out 2 or more times a day.
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It's was 25 yrs ago and some were retired, some had health issues so stabling was not an option and some people only wanted to ride occassionly. No menage so riding after work was not an option.
Lots of different reasons and if I was given the option to have a horse living out on good grazing I would ride from the field over having a stable and there would be less pressure to ride everyday
 
I should have clarified, a few points, there are about 5 or 6 fields, just with the gates left open. All hedge/tree lined so plenty of space to get away, its all DIY so horses come in and go out pretty much whenever it seems! I happened to go down later on so all the horses were in so didn't actually get to see it! There is 3 barns with 20 horses in each. I have sent the YO a message asking about this, no reply as of yet! But you mostly seem to have a similar response to me when I realised. I am hoping I have misunderstood. As yard is perfect in other respects!
 
OP, this scenario could work for some horses but not for others. I would say important factors are the herd dynamics at that yard and the size of the field and as others have said whether there are enough water troughs and if there will be safety at the entrance/exit to field. More than one entrance/exit point would be handy, as well as a small electric fenced off bit right at the gates where you could more easily get only your horse in, and then out of the proper gate. A massive field would allow your older horse to stay well away from trouble, but it's a bit of an unknown quantity how your mare would settle in if she's dominant. She could potentially regularly be injured if there are a lot of other dominant horses where they don't settle into an established 'pecking order'.

Personally I wouldn't move to a yard where I'd have to put my old boy (semi-retired) in such a large herd. He's a nightmare to catch, so would refuse to come in unless all the horses are brought in for dinner. He loves his turn-out so would simply say 'no way Jose, I'm staying out with my friends' and keep running off instead of allowing me or anyone else to catch him. Also, due to tendon injuries in the past, he's better off in a small, stable herd on a level or gently sloping field. I wouldn't want him turned out in a herd where there's a lot of horses playing or galloping, which youngsters are prone to do. At present he's turned out with one retired mare and they have the same turning out and bringing in routine, and have formed a close bond. He's already living in horsey heaven!

ETA: Have just read your most recent post. I would keep looking for another yard if I was you, mostly for your mare's sake as I'd be too worried she'd get injuries.
 
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