Horses in the US vs UK. American who may be moving to England.

[freebird]

So I'm actually born, raised, and currently living in Texas. Never even been to the UK ! However it looks as though I may be moving to England, perhaps late next year, to live with my British partner for a couple of years, likely near Birmingham, before moving and settling in America (or, that's the plan at least!)

I was very curious on how different the horse scene is in Britain compared to the US. Would love any comments, advice, or anything!

And if anyone has lived in both countries, I would love your take on this.

And I'll say it in advanced, please excuse my ignorance when it comes to horse keeping in a different country. I only know it one way.

In the US we call livery board. Most board is full care and includes AM & PM feeding, cleaning, and turnout. Every now and then you'll see pasture board, and even more rare for some reason (at least where I'm from) is partial board. I've been doing a little research and it seems like there are many options of full, partial, or DIY livery. Which is more popular? If you have a full time job (not sure if I will or won't when I move to England, depends on my partner's job) it seems like it would be difficult to do DIY although this is the most cost effective option. And then you have to bring in your own hay and feed. Here in Texas that is easy with feed stores everywhere and a pickup truck. I wonder how that works in England with picking up hay & feed.

And that brings me to transport. I have a 3/4ton pick up and horse trailer. Pickups don't seem common over there, but you guys have horseboxes (and I'm jealous, those are neat!). Do most horse owners own their own transport for their horses or do they hire others out to go to shows and clinics?

From snooping around on facebook sites, the horses in Europe seem to be more fairly priced considering the high quality. It seems like I can get a good, young prospect over there for a very reasonable price. My issue is going to be deciding whether to purchase a horse while there and shipping it over to the US when we move or just suffering and waiting to purchase another horse. I recently sold one of mine and not having my own horses is quite difficult when you just want to go out and ride and train! I just fear shipping costs. If its over £8k I may be waiting...

And my last question... how easy or difficult is it to find a position working at a stable or as a working student? Is it possible to make at least £20k a year? My vocational nursing license won't translate into anything in England unfortunately and my only other experience is low level computer networking/help desk and horses. If my partner is fine with me not making too much money, I may take the opportunity to work as a Dressage working student if its not too difficult for me to get a position. I fear whoever I'm working under won't be too happy with my Texan/American horse experience. Perhaps I am wrong, but I always imagine it is not on par with the way people ride in Europe. I would love to pursue BHS accreditation as well so I can come back to the US and teach.

So sorry if that was a long read! I tend to ramble on so highlighted my questions. Thank you in advance to those who offer their help!

 

[conniegirl]

And that brings me to transport. I have a 3/4ton pick up and horse trailer. Pickups don't seem common over there, but you guys have horseboxes (and I'm jealous, those are neat!). Do most horse owners own their own transport for their horses or do they hire others out to go to shows and clinics?

And my last question... how easy or difficult is it to find a position working at a stable or as a working student? Is it possible to make at least £20k a year? My vocational nursing license won't translate into anything in England unfortunately and my only other experience is low level computer networking/help desk and horses. If my partner is fine with me not making too much money, I may take the opportunity to work as a Dressage working student if its not too difficult for me to get a position. I fear whoever I'm working under won't be too happy with my Texan/American horse experience. Perhaps I am wrong, but I always imagine it is not on par with the way people ride in Europe. I would love to pursue BHS accreditation as well so I can come back to the US and teach.

So sorry if that was a long read! I tend to ramble on so highlighted my questions. Thank you in advance to those who offer their help!

I'll answer the bits I can.

Transport is expensive to hire so if you go out regularly you will want your own transport.
You don't need a pick up truck to tow the trailers over here, most 4x4 cars are capable of it.
Horse boxes come in various sizes from 3.5ton up to 18+ ton vehicles and all sorts of costs and accessories.
They will for the most part be manual transmissions and you will need a special license to drive vehicles ove 3.5 ton

It is fairly easy to get a job or a working pupil position however they will pay peanuts.
Making £20k a year working with horses is very very hard work, requires substantial qualifications and experience working on top competition yards and serious level of competition results generaly

 

[LeannePip]

Wow that all sounds very exciting! I'll try and answer the points that i can pick out;

Livery; in most areas you will find a mix of both DIY is actually becoming less frequent near the ig cities (which birmingham is) because the expected prices aren't enough to cover their costs so many are switching to part or full. Part for me is a great compromise although a lot of people working full time do manage to do DIY it just depends how much leg work you want to do. I find my part livery much easier to cope with the work/ horse balance and it means i don't spend my weekends driving round trying to find the best price for hay/feed/bedding.

Not everyone has their own transport i'd sy trailers and 3.5t lorries are the most common now. but we don't tend to have the huge trailers/ floats that you will be familiar with, our vehicles and roads aren't really suitable! you can usually hire a trailer from about £30-£50 per day if you have a towing vehicle and a 3.5t for about £50-£120 per day.

if you aren't going to be working much you could get a nice young horse reasonable priced which you could either sell when you move or take over with you? working pupils as we call them start out at any level and if you have some experience with horses i'm sure you will find a position, there are plenty of them but they don't pay an awful lot, i got £50 per week + lessons and board for me and the horse on a 6 day week working very very long hours. i used to work 12 days on 2 days off so i could go home for a weekend!

If you have experience as a nurse you could probably get a job paying about that amount as a HCA (health care assistant) in hospitals (going through an agency you will get paid more than just getting a job through the hospital) or you could be a home carer who usually get a bit more than that! My sister is a trainee nurse working in placements and says you' b snapped up in either of those positions even without any UK recognised qualifications.

Good luck with it all

 

[be positive]

I will make a start on a few points, you will not earn £20k working with horses over here, as a working student you may well be expected to pay if you go to a top yard and get a decent level of training in exchange for work so that is probably not a realistic option if you need to contribute. Your nursing qualification may not translate but would probably be the best way to get an income as there is always a shortage of staff in care homes who may not require a full qualification, something to look into, or maybe upgrade before you come.

If you only plan to be over here for a couple of years maybe you could do some BHS training in your free time rather than buying your own horse, it could be a better investment in your future, the training will be available in approved yards and if you pay for it you will have a better chance of making progress quickly than being a working pupil as you will be more in control.

I won't comment on the livery as it varies so much, the same with horse prices, you can buy a good horse for very little but can just as easily spend £££s and find something goes wrong within days, I expect the cost of transporting to Texas to be in the region of £8-10k so it needs thinking about, as already suggested spending the money on training may be the best option.

 

[sasquatch]

to answer a few questions (i'm in Ireland/Northern Ireland so not England but in UK)


cost of livery highly depends on the area and what you are after. some places will only offer a certain type of livery, whilst some will have different types. It's not necessarily about what is most popular, but what is best suited to you and your horse.
some yards will also provide hay/haylage for you as part of your livery fee, some will provide hay/haylage for an additional fee, some will not provide it at all and you will have to buy your own. Similarly, you may find your yard will provide you with bedding and the cost is added to your monthly livery bill, or you have to buy your own and transport it to the yard.
When buying feed, I find it is very easily transportable and can easily fit a bag of feed in the boot of my tiny car. Instead of having a feed store, you are most likely going to end up buying feed from a Saddlery/tack store that also stock feed or ordering it online to your house to then take to the yard yourself.

Horseboxes can be expensive, as can the cars that tow them! Lots of people will either have their own, hire one through a company, or ask a favour/pay petrol money for a lift with a friend. Clinics are slightly different to the US I think as well.

If you are competent, you may be able to find a position working in a stable, but you may not be paid much. Similarly, as a working pupil you may not make much money either. Again, it depends on where you are and what the yards around you are like!

If you want to teach, I do recommend getting your BHS qualifications. Each BHS stage also examines riding, as well as horse care, so you would re-learn a lot of things or be taught to do them the way that is practiced generally in the UK, and according to the BHS books. You will most likely be fine, riding wise and care wise, however if you do do your stages you have to do them at a test centre and will most likely need to get lessons to prepare you for your stages as well (most BHS test centres also run courses to perpare you)

If you know the area you will be moving too, I would join some of the horsey facebook groups for that area, often livery yards advertise themselves on there as well as people selling bedding/local tack shops/hay etc. so you may be able to get a better idea of how much it would cost you. I'm guessing from your post you won't be living in the UK for more than 2/3 years, and if you don't want to buy then either ship over or sell again, you could consider loaning a horse long term instead.

hope that has helped a little bit,

 

[concorde]

Your main difficulty may be getting a visa that enables you to live and work in the UK.

 

[freebird]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I may do a working pupil position but from the sounds of it I won't be getting my hopes up too high for a decent salary. I'd likely do it for experience. But I think going for my BHS and concentrating on that would be great for when I come back to the US. Think it would give me a lot of experience.

I'm considered an adult amateur in the US, not at all a pro or high level rider right now. My goal is to get a bronze medal (US Dressage up to 3rd level) and with the BHS hopefully I can be a good instructor. This is my 7-10 year goal.

Will have to take a while to think about the horse. Buying a young horse and selling may be difficult, I get attached haha. Leasing may be an option. I'm scared shipping will just be so much...

If you have experience as a nurse you could probably get a job paying about that amount as a HCA (health care assistant) in hospitals (going through an agency you will get paid more than just getting a job through the hospital) or you could be a home carer who usually get a bit more than that! My sister is a trainee nurse working in placements and says you' b snapped up in either of those positions even without any UK recognized qualifications.

Good luck with it all

Will have to look into HCA and home care, that may be my best bet! Thanks for that, gives me some ideas.

 

[s4sugar]

Go round the county shows & definitely get tickets for Your Horse Live. You will be in a state of shock as most things are so different.
What passes for English equitation in the States would be laughed at or frowned upon here.
it does cost around $8k to ship a horse to the USA but if you buy a RID from Janet George or similar you will be quids in Stateside.
Not sure of BHS training around Birmingham but the nursing assistant etc suggestion above is a good one.

Good luck.

 

[freebird]

Your main difficulty may be getting a visa that enables you to live and work in the UK.

I'm in a serious relationship with someone from England with hopeful plans, that's the reason I'll be able to go over there to live with him for a bit!

Go round the county shows & definitely get tickets for Your Horse Live. You will be in a state of shock as most things are so different.
What passes for English equitation in the States would be laughed at or frowned upon here.
it does cost around $8k to ship a horse to the USA but if you buy a RID from Janet George or similar you will be quids in Stateside.
Not sure of BHS training around Birmingham but the nursing assistant etc suggestion above is a good one.

Good luck.

That's what I'm scared of, that the riding is so different between the two countries that I'll have to start from scratch and get some habits trained out of me!

I would love to be there for Your Horse Live! Will be in England in DEC/JAN though.

 

[Paint Me Proud]

I live in Birmingham and stable my horse locally so if you need anhy advice concerning the area just drop me a private message

 

[Theocat]

Leasing is rare in the Uk - loans are more common, where you covert all costs but don't pay a fee.

From what I understand of US horse prices, it's almost impossible to export a horse to the States and lose money - what would a good all-rounder (decent dressage up to Novice, jump up to 1m, safe hack, well put together, no health issues) cost in the US?

 

[ycbm]

Do you ride western? I think There's a possibility that you might be able to make a living as a genuine Texan training western riding/fitting western tack over here. There is an increasing interest.

 

[s4sugar]

I'm in a serious relationship with someone from England with hopeful plans, that's the reason I'll be able to go over there to live with him for a bit!



That's what I'm scared of, that the riding is so different between the two countries that I'll have to start from scratch and get some habits trained out of me!

I would love to be there for Your Horse Live! Will be in England in DEC/JAN though.

Good horsemanship transcends boundaries but you will be in time for http://www.olympiahorseshow.com/ to throw you in at the deep end.

 

[Sukistokes2]

I hope you like it over hear, you are right it will be very different. I am on a couple of FB sites that are mainly American and while in the end horse care is horse care somethings are VERY different. Full livery is very expensive and most people even in full time work and who want to eat, tend to do part or DIY. As someone who teaches full time I still see and do my horses every day, they are turned out in the morning for me. I have to scroll past the posts that start " well I haven't seen my horse for six weeks but when I rode her....." I've found the standard of riding varies on those sites from very good, to western on an English saddle. The language is going to drive you potty, on those sites they are always on about what grain they feed their horses. I've never worked out (and never had the guts to ask) do they really feed their unridden, barn bound horses grain! Or is it just a generic term for horse feed!? I have visions of them stuffing their horses with oats and corn!!

 

[indie1282]

I don't know about the states but in the UK sharing is very popular - basically you share someone s horse/pony and split the cost/care/riding. Means you get to ride and be involved without having to possibly sell if you move back home!

 

[spookypony]

I'm a Canadian who has lived in the US and now lives in the UK, so can comment a bit!

First, about the riding style: no, depending on your background, you won't be laughed at at all. There's excellent training in "English" riding to be had in the States, including from a lot of European trainers. If your background is Hunter/Jumper (it sounds to me like you're more in a dressage direction?), there are stylistic differences, but you needn't feel hugely insecure. I came from a dressage background in Canada, taught by an Austrian, and I had no problems fitting in. The biggest shock to me was the amount of hacking (trail riding) that people do as a matter of course, often in conditions I would have considered very worrying. I've become used to that too, and now compete in Endurance...

About affordability etc.: one thing I love over here is how much more affordable competing to a decent level/horse keeping is for the average Joe. Grass/DIY livery is very common here, and many places will include hay in the livery price, or else let you buy it from them. It's far more common, I think, for competition horses to live out 24/7 over here than in the US (at least where I stayed). At the yard where I first kept my pony, there was a feed store just a few miles away, and a tack shop 10 mins ride through the woods. Now I keep my horses at home (they multiply!), and I drive about 6 miles for hay and for feed, though a farmer will deliver if I need (like when my car died).

Competition wise, there's a huge unaffiliated/grass roots scene, very often combined with affiliated competition. Rather than competing just a few times a year and maybe doing some schooling shows, you can compete affiliated pretty much every weekend if you want (depending a bit on the area). Rather than hiring a stable for a weekend and spending wads and wads of ca$h, I'll bathe the day before, plait up (braid) in the morning, drive maybe 1/2 hour to the venue, tie my mare to my trailer with a hay net, do two classes, and be home with plenty of time left for other stuff: everything's just so much closer together that you don't spend hours and hours driving, except for the really big things.

Transport here is generally one of 3 options: SUV + trailer (a used Ifor Williams trailer will cost you somewhere around 2k, requires a B+E license), 3.5-tonne van (can be driven on a normal license, but is popular so more expensive to buy), or bigger truck (requires special license, and is pretty expensive to run, though often, absurdly, cheaper to buy than 3.5t).

I found there's a lot of slightly different terminology, sometimes leading to hilarity. And some things are managed differently. Growing up in an area where Hunter/Jumper types, Continental European types, and Western types all co-existed, I found it interesting how set in their ways many (though far from all!) people are, in terms of thinking there's one way of doing things, and not questioning why they think this. But I suspect that's the sort of attitude one can find anywhere!

Happy to try to answer any other questions...

 

[maggiestar]

Not to burst your bubble but being in a serious relationship with someone probably won't be enough to get you a work permit. Even married couples need to prove a certain income.

 

[freebird]

I live in Birmingham and stable my horse locally so if you need anhy advice concerning the area just drop me a private message

Thank you!

Leasing is rare in the Uk - loans are more common, where you covert all costs but don't pay a fee.

From what I understand of US horse prices, it's almost impossible to export a horse to the States and lose money - what would a good all-rounder (decent dressage up to Novice, jump up to 1m, safe hack, well put together, no health issues) cost in the US?

Sounds like our free lease, I'll look into that!

Prices vary quite a bit for horses so its hard to say. A green warmblood with minimal training can easily cost over $10,000. But the "average" horse here is a paint, quarter horse, or thoroughbred. If a horse can jump 1m their price seems to skyrocket but I'm not familiar with jumping. So I'd say $8000 and going quickly up from there. I was into Arabians which typically don't sell for as much here so I'm not the best person to give estimates.

Do you ride western? I think There's a possibility that you might be able to make a living as a genuine Texan training western riding/fitting western tack over here. There is an increasing interest.

Haha, no, I started out riding western but do endurance and Dressage now though I am in lower levels. I would love to be a working pupil over there to really get into more.

Good horsemanship transcends boundaries but you will be in time for http://www.olympiahorseshow.com/ to throw you in at the deep end.

Aaaaand I'm adding that to my plans when I'm there, thanks for that! Looks awesome. I get there on the 14th so will miss the Dressage though, dangit. Boyfriend wants to see the driving.

I hope you like it over hear, you are right it will be very different. I am on a couple of FB sites that are mainly American and while in the end horse care is horse care somethings are VERY different. Full livery is very expensive and most people even in full time work and who want to eat, tend to do part or DIY. As someone who teaches full time I still see and do my horses every day, they are turned out in the morning for me. I have to scroll past the posts that start " well I haven't seen my horse for six weeks but when I rode her....." I've found the standard of riding varies on those sites from very good, to western on an English saddle. The language is going to drive you potty, on those sites they are always on about what grain they feed their horses. I've never worked out (and never had the guts to ask) do they really feed their unridden, barn bound horses grain! Or is it just a generic term for horse feed!? I have visions of them stuffing their horses with oats and corn!!

I think most people use it as a generic term for feed. I see less and less people actually feeding their horses oats and corn and more people feeding a complete feed. I partial boarded before and it was very doable. As long as the yard is close I would much prefer to do that. There seems to be a good selection as well. I live in a major city and it took me about 45 minutes to go visit my horse. It was full board, but I was out there 5-6 times a week.

 

[CrazyMare]

Horsey questions have been covered by others, and I have no idea about visas, however I have always worked in the NHS, and can direct you to http://www.jobs.nhs.uk for loads of jobs in the NHS. In Birmingham there are quite a few major hospitals including a specialist children's hospital.

 

[freebird]

I don't know about the states but in the UK sharing is very popular - basically you share someone s horse/pony and split the cost/care/riding. Means you get to ride and be involved without having to possibly sell if you move back home!

Will look into that, sounds like a good option!

I'm a Canadian who has lived in the US and now lives in the UK, so can comment a bit!

First, about the riding style: no, depending on your background, you won't be laughed at at all. There's excellent training in "English" riding to be had in the States, including from a lot of European trainers. If your background is Hunter/Jumper (it sounds to me like you're more in a dressage direction?), there are stylistic differences, but you needn't feel hugely insecure. I came from a dressage background in Canada, taught by an Austrian, and I had no problems fitting in. The biggest shock to me was the amount of hacking (trail riding) that people do as a matter of course, often in conditions I would have considered very worrying. I've become used to that too, and now compete in Endurance...

About affordability etc.: one thing I love over here is how much more affordable competing to a decent level/horse keeping is for the average Joe. Grass/DIY livery is very common here, and many places will include hay in the livery price, or else let you buy it from them. It's far more common, I think, for competition horses to live out 24/7 over here than in the US (at least where I stayed). At the yard where I first kept my pony, there was a feed store just a few miles away, and a tack shop 10 mins ride through the woods. Now I keep my horses at home (they multiply!), and I drive about 6 miles for hay and for feed, though a farmer will deliver if I need (like when my car died).

Competition wise, there's a huge unaffiliated/grass roots scene, very often combined with affiliated competition. Rather than competing just a few times a year and maybe doing some schooling shows, you can compete affiliated pretty much every weekend if you want (depending a bit on the area). Rather than hiring a stable for a weekend and spending wads and wads of ca$h, I'll bathe the day before, plait up (braid) in the morning, drive maybe 1/2 hour to the venue, tie my mare to my trailer with a hay net, do two classes, and be home with plenty of time left for other stuff: everything's just so much closer together that you don't spend hours and hours driving, except for the really big things.

Transport here is generally one of 3 options: SUV + trailer (a used Ifor Williams trailer will cost you somewhere around 2k, requires a B+E license), 3.5-tonne van (can be driven on a normal license, but is popular so more expensive to buy), or bigger truck (requires special license, and is pretty expensive to run, though often, absurdly, cheaper to buy than 3.5t).

I found there's a lot of slightly different terminology, sometimes leading to hilarity. And some things are managed differently. Growing up in an area where Hunter/Jumper types, Continental European types, and Western types all co-existed, I found it interesting how set in their ways many (though far from all!) people are, in terms of thinking there's one way of doing things, and not questioning why they think this. But I suspect that's the sort of attitude one can find anywhere!

Happy to try to answer any other questions...

Great post, thank you! I've done some endurance and noticed that there is a lot of hacking in England. I think that's awesome and so good for the horses. Partial, DIY, or Grass sounds like the way to go.

Not to burst your bubble but being in a serious relationship with someone probably won't be enough to get you a work permit. Even married couples need to prove a certain income.

From what I've researched, if we are married, I will be able to work having a spouse visa. Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to work on a fiance visa and that's what we were planning to do at first. We're still in the stages of research and planning. Would I need a work permit do to something like a working pupil position?

Horsey questions have been covered by others, and I have no idea about visas, however I have always worked in the NHS, and can direct you to http://www.jobs.nhs.uk for loads of jobs in the NHS. In Birmingham there are quite a few major hospitals including a specialist children's hospital.

Excellent, thank you! Will give that site a look. Even if I work part time or won't work at the same level I can in the US because of my license, if I can still work health care that would help me out a lot experience wise when we move back to the US.

 

[maggiestar]

From what I've researched, if we are married, I will be able to work having a spouse visa. Unfortunately I wouldn't be able to work on a fiance visa and that's what we were planning to do at first. We're still in the stages of research and planning. Would I need a work permit do to something like a working pupil position?

As far as I understand it any employee would need proof of your right to work in the UK. This would include a working pupil position if they were paying you. The fines for employing those without papers are extortionate! If you took an unpaid position or even paid for a working pupil placement the rules might be different though. Check gov.UK and see what the requirements are. Good luck!

 

[Mince Pie]

With regards to visas search for Lady Gasgoyne, she and her fiance (now husband) had a nightmare trying to get her OH back to the UK - she is a Brit, he is South African - they needed to prove an income of over £18000.

 

[freebird]

Thanks guys, will look more into it!

 

[Enfys]

If the US is anything like Canada, BHS qualifications will not be worth the paper they are written on once back home

I hope you get to go over, it will be a great experience and they will LOVE your accent

 

[Mince Pie]

http://www.uk-yankee.com/guide/expat-guide-uk/moving-uk

 

[turnbuckle]

May be that the BHS qualification will impress 'em in the US...but a much more highly regarded one in this country is the Pony Club B Test.....

If you go for the working pupil thing, see if they'll aim you towards that.

You could always bring your own horse and work towards yr £20,000 doing barrel racing and steer roping lessons

 

[Orangehorse]

My sister had horses in America and I have met up with several trainers from the USA in general riding as well as western and hunter showing.

I was always very impressed with the USA trainers. A few things left the Brits with shocked faces and dropped jaws, but they do know what they are talking about. I think in the UK we turn out more than in the USA, which I was very surprised about as we tend to think of those wide open prairies for horses to gallop around on, and so finding a horse living on a dirt corral eating only hay was a bit of a surprise.

If you are based near Birmingham you are in the middle of the the country. Solihull Riding Club and competition centre have something on nearly every day of the year, so it would be well worth while to look on their website and go and take a look as it is just off the motorway.

There is a lot going on in the horseworld in the UK, although it can sometimes be hard to find out at first from the outside. Obviously there are lots of website and Facebook groups and in feed stores there are magazines availabe that list fixtures.

Starting from the top, there are the Affiliated Eventing, Dressage and Show Jumping competitions and County Shows for showing everything from hunters down to small ponies and in hand shows, then there are breed shows, Polo, then many Riding Club shows and events and Pony Club for younger riders. There are also driving clubs, Western Equitation, Trec, Endurance, Polocrosse and even some Saddlebred, Morgan, Paso Fino, etc breed societies that do their own thing - and that won't be everything. There is always something going on!
They have everything from Affiliated eventing, dressage and show jumping to unaffiliated small shows

 

[Leo Walker]

May be that the BHS qualification will impress 'em in the US...but a much more highly regarded one in this country is the Pony Club B Test.....

If you go for the working pupil thing, see if they'll aim you towards that.

I've honestly never seen a WP position or a teaching position asking or aiming for a PC B test. And unless shes of pony club age it wont be an option anyway.

 

[Mince Pie]

Starting from the top, there are the Affiliated Eventing, Dressage and Show Jumping competitions and County Shows for showing everything from hunters down to small ponies and in hand shows

Should probably point out that in the UK, a hunter is a horse who hunts - as in fox hunting (although we no longer hunt foxes).

 

[s4sugar]

we also don't have classes like this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiwnmlbUxhU