Horses on little to no turnout?

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rubykemp

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Do you think the welfare of a horse is compromised when having no turnout?
Also do you have any personal experiences of any horses that have developed stable vices due to little to no turnout? All opinions and feedback welcomed as this is part of university research.
Thank you
 
My horses have no turnout whilst at uni and only really have summer turnout when at home (a few hours) They are ridden everyday and competed a couple of times a week. They seem much more settled being in and no vices have ever developed
 
My late TB had had no turnout in her youth while in training. She was then a broodmare and kept out in the field 24/7. She hated being stabled and would shake as you led her into the yard. She would go in the stable but she would grind her teeth, poo loads, box walk and was clearly very stressed by it. Luckily I was able to keep her outside 24/7 as she also wouldn't eat or drink while stabled.
 
Mine have very restricted turnout in the fields but never go in stables. lol I don't have any stables, I have a large varied yard and barns which they are turned out in. My field track is rarely useable due to the severe wet. Major mistake buying land on a bog! :rolleyes:
None have any vices at all unless you consider serious cuteness a vice. :D

I do think welfare is compromised, even the five freedoms say so!
 
Rio is on very little turn out (hour each end of the day) as he flat out refuses to go out in the field. my other lot go out but he refuses to go out. this may or may not be because he has been stabled for the last 8 years of his life while he lived in spain and also he hates mud, rain, wind, cold, snow etc so hes pretty much stuffed in the UK but i did get him out for an hour the other day and he didnt seem to mind too much but was very eager to come in again but it took a huge amount of pulling and persuation to get him out and tbh its not worth the argument as he just gets stressed :( he is turned out an hour each end of the day and is worked an hour everyday. he also always has company... i dont think his welfare is compromised. its his own choice... i would rather he was out tbh as he is costing me a fortune in bedding and hay but he wont go out and im not going to force it apon him and also he becomes horrible to handle if left out longer than an hour :/ obviously it doesnt work for every horse but its what he wants... he'll go out in the summer as he doesnt mind then :)
 
My TB raced when he was younger, so had minimal turnout. He now lives out 24/7 most of the year, although he does come into a large barn overnight when the weather is very bad. He hates being stabled - he box walks quite badly and gets stressed and sweaty. We also have two ponies who have restricted turnout as they have had laminitis in the past. In spring when the grass is coming through they are only out for 2-3 hours each day, but 'in' is a small pen in the corner of the field, rather than a stable. They both seem perfectly content with their routine and don't show any signs of stress. I am however planning on getting a larger area fenced for them (hopefully in the coming month) as I think this will be better for them physically and mentally. I definitely think that welfare is compromised with no turnout and I would never want to keep a horse in this way.
 
Horses are naturally herd animals that live in open spaces. They travel distances, moving and nibbling low sugar high roughage fibre forage much of the time. They live in herds for safety and their response to danger is to run. The need to hear, see and be able to escape as well as have herd mates to help alert for danger. They interact with each other and form relationships that bind the herd.

How does being in a stable 24/7 or for long periods address their evolved social, physical and behavioural needs? We stable horses because it is convenient to us.
 
mine was in for a few months (youngster)

actually helped her attitude and she has turnout now (utterly my choice to keep her in)!

she is a lovely sweet thing, but when she was out and then living out - she was evil - she needed the time in to come right down and she has :)



so what im trying to say- depends on the circumstances?

but i do not agree with in 24/7/365 unless medical! winter in - yes!/... all year - absolutely not.
 
I don't think it has to be compromised. If the brain, gut and muscles can be stimulated regularly through the day. So plenty to chew of various differ t types round the stable. Lots of relaxed hacking or long reining and let stretch in a turnout space twice a day with human fuss and horse contact then I think most would deal with this. The UK is one of the few countries in the world where 24/7 turnout is given.
 
Turnout is hugely important to me, and I actually moved yards so that I could have them out 24/7. They do come in at night every now and then, but they are out so much more than they ever have been before and they are both so so happy :D

My mare has arthritis so if she is in for long periods she gets very stiff. Winter last year was a real nightmare! She is so much suppler now that she is out more - you can see the difference in her movement and she has a lovely sparkle in her eye now. She is a regular toughie and never wants to come in!

The gelding started wind sucking while on a prolonged period of no-turnout several years ago (was on box rest). I would never restrict his turnout now unless absolutely necessary.

Overall though, I think it is unfair to keep an animal that, by nature, ought to be on the move constantly, in a stable with little or no turnout.
 
Our poor Sec A is on box rest with controlled (?!!!) short walks in hand. He has become a bit of a fiend despite the company of a mare who has been "doing time" for longer, stable toys, attention, hidden food and everything else we can think of.
We just hope we get our nice little pony back when this is sorted.
Really can't think of many positives I'm afraid.
 
ATM my horses get two to three hours sometimes a bit longer in the morning they are then worked groomed etc from late morning /early afternoon .
On rest days they are out six hours unless the weather is terrible .
They various types of forage all the time they are in the stable.
They are calm happy and settled ones a bit of a prat in the morning as he likes to be turned out the moment he's finished his feed but you catch him again in twenty minutes and he would be perfectly happy to go back in.
I don't think their welfare is compromised by this but they are in work I would not be happy with this amount of turn out if they were not.
 
My horses are stabled from September to April as the fields are too wet and I dont want to risk their legs. I know many wouldnt agree with this, however they are ridden everyday and go on a walker everyday.
 
I bought my mare with the intention of having her live out 24/7, big chunky ID, but it didn't quite work like that.

She is ok out 24/7 in summer but I have tried leaving her out into winter and she starts charging at the gate, won't let others get their horses in etc. She gets to about 3pm and she's desperate to come in.

One year she was on loan to a college while I went travelling and they had no turnout over winter. When I came back I actually think she was depressed, just really down and grumpy. No stable vices but started almost biting when I put her rug on which isn't like her at all. Brought her home and turned her out and her mood changed almost immediately.

At the moment she's at a yard where the turnout is a bit more restricted than I thought it would be. She gets about 2-3 hrs a day and she's completely happy with that. I would prefer longer turnout myself but she doesn't seem to care.
 
Mine are out for around 10 hours a day and they are more than happy to come in at night but then equally as happy to go out in the morning. My grass is very limited but they wont be stabled to rest it, they'll be out in a small area (about twice the size of their stable) in the field. I think its good for them to be out in the elements and also to have a change of scenery from four walls!!

However when I got them at 5 months they were srabled 24/7 for a few weeks and it's done them the world of good. They wouldn't let me near them at first and I think them being stabled over came this easier for them.

It depends on the individual situation but as a general rule I don't like 24/7 stabling.
 
My big lad weaves unless on a tight routine which only then restricts when he does it. Must go out straight after brekkie or weaves (though I ignore his if he is first to be ridden). Weaves at gate to come in if it gets hot, windy, rains and God help us if dark falls. Even turned out 24/7 for 4 months he could be seen weaving in the middle of the field. We have a deal in summer that he stays out at night but will then flatten me to be in for the day and has to be crowbarred out again.
 
I read somewhere recently that Sweden has a law that a horse must have constant access to an area where it can use all its natural gaits..... or something like that, basically i think it meant it must have a pretty large area available all the time to it. I like the idea very much, doubt it would work here though, not enough room, too expensive to make up the turnout areas as all weather etc. Shame though.
 
In winter mine are stabled at night and out in pens during the day (approx 36x36). They are disadvantaged by lack of space and grass. However if they were out they would be disadvantaged by mud fever, poor grazing, poor shelter. As it is they have company as can interact over fence and have adlib hay. And they still get fresh air.
They are out 24/7 in summer.
 
my mare has not had proper turnout since Dec, our fields are a mess, she gets worked everyday and turned out for half hour in the morning in the driest field. She goes out has a roll then races back to the gate and creates merry hell until i bring her in again. She loves her stable, I think it stems from being chucked out all weathers with no rugs or feed before I got her
 
I think its cruel keeping such a large animal confined all the time. I went to a yard where I was told my horse could go out every day as it was very important to me that he got out, after a week of being there she closed the paddocks for the winter and he was only allowed to be turned out in the school whilst I mucked out, after a few days he was climbing the walls, the last straw was the yard owner asking for more money to throw an extra feed over the door, I was gone that afternoon! The BHS shouldn't allow yards to run as a business if they don't have all year turnout.
 
I do think it's cruel not to give a horse turnout.

Horses in the wild travel miles everyday in a herd. It isn't fair to expect your horse to leave the stable only to be ridden, or do controlled exercise. They need time to be a horse, for their mental and physical wellbeing.
 
For various reasons, mine's had restricted turnout since we had the snow in Jan, getting out about 2-3 times a week if that though hopefully more now. Around that I would ensure he got walked in hand every day even if just around the stable block as with working and nights not stretching out much til now I could only hack at weekend or day off but if couldn't hack out would get him in the school but school not great so that's only been 1-2 times a week for 20-30 mins and for 2 weeks I couldn't do much due to him not being well and waiting for that to clear up as he was uncomfortable. Mainly because of various vet visits , jabs, antibiotics, I've also given him time off a bit too this winter for the first time ever in terms of work. He loves his routine of going out though so has found it a bit unsettling, he's calm in his stable if plenty of hay but he will start to try and chew wood a bit in his stable if bored. Normal winter turnout would be every day unless awful weather and out from 9-2 which seemed to be enough as we have such limited grass. He does need turnout for his pony head though and also I worry about him getting stiff. He also loves his grass. So I've felt part jailor this winter and have hated it but he's coped well. However, won't go through another winter like this without more options.
 
singing dawg said:
I read somewhere recently that Sweden has a law that a horse must have constant access to an area where it can use all its natural gaits..... or something like that, basically i think it meant it must have a pretty large area available all the time to it. I like the idea very much, doubt it would work here though, not enough room, too expensive to make up the turnout areas as all weather etc. Shame though.
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Don't think it can be turnout though ,think about their winters.
 
amandap said:
Horses are naturally herd animals that live in open spaces. They travel distances, moving and nibbling low sugar high roughage fibre forage much of the time. They live in herds for safety and their response to danger is to run. The need to hear, see and be able to escape as well as have herd mates to help alert for danger. They interact with each other and form relationships that bind the herd.

How does being in a stable 24/7 or for long periods address their evolved social, physical and behavioural needs? We stable horses because it is convenient to us.
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this ^^^^
 
singing dawg said:
I read somewhere recently that Sweden has a law that a horse must have constant access to an area where it can use all its natural gaits..... or something like that, basically i think it meant it must have a pretty large area available all the time to it. I like the idea very much, doubt it would work here though, not enough room, too expensive to make up the turnout areas as all weather etc. Shame though.
Click to expand...

Thinking about it how could they hold international shows if this was the case ?
And when I was I Stockholm we watched the Swedish army horses every morning coming out the mews at the palace as it was close to the hotel and theres no way they could have constant acess to such a space living in the centre of a city in fact even on exercise they would be lucky to trot.
 
'horses are naturally herd animals' 'in the wild, horses would...'
Well, they aren't 'in the wild' are they?! We have domesticated them. My youngsters were born in a stable, not out on the moors! They generally go out for about 6 hours a day, unless the weather is hideous when they stay in. When they are in their stables they have pretty much constant access to forage, and are perfectly happy.
My stallion doesn't get turnout in the winter, and gets fairly minimal turnout in the summer. I have tried to put him out for longer periods, but he doesn't like any form of 'weather', plagues of horseflies in the summer irritate him, he gets bored quickly and gallops around like a loon, and quite frankly I am not prepared to risk injury to my valuable competition horse. I'm sure many people will be thinking what a selfish individual I am - maybe they're right, but
a) I work very hard to keep my horse - the majority of my wages AND my time is spent on caring for him
b) if he were to break, I can't afford another one
c) he is not, and never has been happy left out in the field - he much prefers his food to be brought to him in his nice, comfy stable, where he can divide his day between eating and sleeping in his deep straw bed
d) he gets to be part of a 'herd' with the 5 other horses that share his barn - the yearlings quite regularly give him 'kisses' over the stable door.
I could go on, but my point is, yes it would be lovely to let all horses live as natural a lifestyle as possible, but in the real world it just isn't always practical. I would wager that the instances of cruelty and neglect are much higher in the field kept horse than the stable kept one - at least the stable kept horse has to be seen to at the very least once a day! Before people start jumping up and down, of course I don't mean that all field kept horses are neglected, but what I am saying is that it is potentially just as 'cruel' to keep a horse out 24/7 if there isn't sufficient forage available/adequate shelter/clean water supply etc.
I'm sure we all do our best for our horses - I just get a little tired of reading how 'cruel' it is to keep horses in stables - they are not wild, they are domesticated, and although they have retained natural instincts they have also adapted to the lifestyle that we have imposed upon them. Dogs and cats never evolved to live in houses either, but I don't notice people being up in arms that we don't allow our dogs to roam in packs, hunting and killing their food as is natural to them......you would get prosecuted for that :)
 
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