Horses that are kept in all day...

I also have two add, my two are exercised everyday that they are in, however kyra has no choice at the moment as two whether she goes out or not so they have been in for 3 weeks, but they are happy as larry, however yard is always busy and always something for them to look at :)
 
mrdarcy said:
Very difficult position - yet another reason to hate livery yards, just too depressing seeing how other people treat their horses. The yard one of my friends keeps her horses on has no turnout in the winter and every single one of the horses on there is depressed. I hate going there. Have to say I do think keeping horses in 24/7 is a welfare issue. Part of the Animal Welfare Act stipulates that animals should be allowed to exhibit normal behaviour patterns. That's totally impossible for the stabled horse. For those people who say their horse hates being out in the cold/wet/etc - do they have ad lib hay/haylage in their field? If you turn a horse out in a field with nothing to eat of course they will wait at the gate - their first instinct is to eat... it's a matter of survival. Again for the people who say their horse prefers being stabled - I presume you have no need of a stable door? If they prefer to stay in then you would be able to leave the stable door wide open, or remove it altogether and the horse would stay in.

Unfortunately in this situation I don't think theres much you can do that you haven't tried already. There are so many institutionalised horses, kept stabled up for the vast majority of their lives that it'll take a massive shift in attitudes to improve the life of many of our equines. It boggles the mind really when you think how up in arms people became about zoos in the eighties, which resulted in most zoos shutting down and those that remained having to vastly increase the size of their enclosures - yet so many people see nothing wrong in shutting a horse in a small box hour after hour, day after day. Would anyone lock a dog in a cage not that much bigger than itself for 23 hours a day? I don't think so...
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100% agreed and very well put!
 
I think most horses would prefer to be out than in if we offer them decent turnout options - a field full of mud and no hay or grass or shelter is not a very appealing turnout option and I can understand why they might not want to stay out very long if that is the only option they have.

My pony lives out and he loves it but he does have proper turnout even in the winter with shelter and hay. He has to live out as he does not like being stabled.

Hopefully once the weather picks up she will turn her horse out again but the longer she leaves it the greater the risk of her horse getting injured from being over excited from finally getting out and being excluded from the herd.

If she works full time then surely she has some weekend time free where she could turn her horse out for an hour and supervise if she is worried and even an hour might be better than nothing but ultimately it is her decision.
 
mrdarcy said:
Again for the people who say their horse prefers being stabled - I presume you have no need of a stable door? If they prefer to stay in then you would be able to leave the stable door wide open, or remove it altogether and the horse would stay in
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Actually, I never shut their stable doors when I am working on the yard. I can muck out, make feeds and haynets, go off to the muck heap and neither of them come out. When I get them out the field I don't need to put headcollars on, they just walk to their stables and go in.

Unfortunately I haven't go my own land so putting hay in the field is not an option.

All horses are different, I would never leave mine out 24/7 in the wind and rain, but I know a lot that do.
 
Depends on the horse. some people will tell you that NO horse likes being in. but in my experience some actually do like being in. Josie for example, if the weather is AWFUL, like the kind of rain where you can't even see and the wind is howling imo all that will happen is she'll stand outside by the fence, knee deep in mud in a soaking wet rug that's probably rubbing her. If she comes in, she's dry and has as much hay as she wants all day long.
Yeh, stable might be 'unatural' but it doesnt mean it's cruel or that the horse is unhappy.
 
Yes Gala, he prob is institutionalised, but I believe he came to this yard a neglect case after being left to fend for himself outside with no food etc (he is a TB) so maybe he hass 'chosen' to become institutionalised?
My old pony, who was 36 when he passed, spent the last 2/3 years of his life stabled for the majority of the time, his stable door was left open for most of the day and he would happily stay inside sucking on his hay replacer and watching the world go by. When is was cold he would pull his door closed using the string his salt lick hung from (no it wasnt the wind, there was a door stop he could move if he wanted to!) he was a welshie, bred on the hills and a pony who would in his prime stay out whatever the weather.
My big girl Melly would go through a door to get out of a stable, but will stay in the lambing barn where she has space and something to look at. Each horse is different I suppose.
 
Suppose it depends on the horse, I know of several that are more than happy staying in lots, yet one of mine would never be any good, just doesn't settle well in a box.
 
Both my boys are out 24/7 now, the yearling spent the winter in at nights and out for at least 12 hours through the day regardless of the weather. My cob who has spent the winter living out has a stable there if he wanted to stay in but he didnt, i would bring him in every night and give him his tea he would have a quick munch on his haynet then be banging at his door to go back out again and that was even when it was pouring from the heavens. This was his first full winter out and i can honestly say i have been totally converted and the yearling will spend his next winter out 24/7, infact my cob didnt even come down for his dinner last night and i had to trapse across the field to get the yearling.

Im not a believer in keeping them in for long periods of time unless its for box rest etc they have to be allowed to be horses.
 
In a situation like this I don't see what else you can do, you have tried to offer help but the owners obviously has misguided reasons, I personally think it is crazy to keep a horse in when the yard provides turn out.

Years ago I lived in an area with limited turn out and my mare was in during winter, it was awlfull she was not happy, stressed ect as were the others. I would never do it again.
A friend of mine is at a yard with no winter turnout and although her horse has coped ok, as she doesn't work so he gets exercised twice a day and taken for grass she has said will move before next winter as it isn't fair.

I really don't think any horse should be kept in 24/7.
 
My horse is in. A lot. He goes out enough to stretch his legs and have a munch of the grass, but by and large stays in. This is for a lot of reasons, but all of them are to do with his welfare. He is laminitic - our grazing is incredibly rich and a couple of hours a day is more than adequate for his needs in summer. He loathes the flies and becomes extremely distressed and covered in itchy lumps.
In winter, the clay-ey nature of the ground where we are means that his field at the moment looks like it has hosted an off-road rallying competition. This is after one horse (his field mate) is turned out all day in it. Why would I want to shove him out in knee deep mud in the cold for hours on end. How is that 'healthy'?

On the whole, when I have turned him out and go back to fetch him in after a couple of hours, he is waiting at the gate for me and very happy to come back in. He's had a roll, a kick and a buck and a fart, a bite of the grass and that is him happy.

He is in work every day and we also have turn-out pens where he can go to let off a bit of steam when his paddock is not fit for use.

I would be most upset if someone who does not know either him or me starts making accusations of cruelty against me because of his routine. It would actually be more convenient for me to chuck him out (a lot less mucking out and a lot less riding) but why would I want to sacrifice his welfare for my convenience.

Please be careful about passing judgement too quickly over matters that you might not have the full picture of.
 
i also think that they should have time out as much as poss, for their own health and mentality but also so i have less work to do!
but if the horse is ok and the owner is resistant to the idea, then there isnt much one can do.
 
Horses are creatures of habit, they generally get used to the routine. One of mine used to stand by the gate after half an hour. However, he has over the years got used to being out 6 - 6. I have no choice, its either that or stay in and due to stiffness, filling legs etc I don;t like them to stay in. They have ad lib hay in the winter and there is also a reason for spending hundreds of pounds on turnout rugs!! The wimpy one is fine in all weathers as long as he is rugged properly.

Its a hard question to answer, I agree that I would be concerned about a horse with no turnout at all, yet it is being looked after and I have been there myself getting all worked up about how, in my opinion, other people do the wrong thing by their horses. In reality there is little you can do about it. Shame though.

I think you have probably done/said as much as you can.
 
Flicker said:
I would be most upset if someone who does not know either him or me starts making accusations of cruelty against me because of his routine. It would actually be more convenient for me to chuck him out (a lot less mucking out and a lot less riding) but why would I want to sacrifice his welfare for my convenience.

Please be careful about passing judgement too quickly over matters that you might not have the full picture of.
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You clearly have very good reasons for keeping your horse in and I see that you put him out for a 'buck and a fart' as you put it :)
This horse in question is healthy & there is no-reason why she should not go out. The weather is good & we put hay in the fields. However, if you read my posts properly you will see that I am absolutely NOT accusing her owner of cruelty in anyway - I just find it unacceptable that the horse has been in her stable aside from a little lunging, 24/7 since Christmas.

Thanks all for your comments though everyone - I will keep my nose out of her business (shame really because she is actually a friend!) as you are right, it isn't really my concern.

Doesn't stop me feeling sad though...
 
I definately think all horses should live out 24/7 unless there is a seriously valid reason why not (and not just because the owner "thinks" their horse is cosier or its easier). I've seen plenty of horses turn nasty when stabled, the owners just choose to ignore it. Too many owners seem to think their horse wants to come in because it stands about by the gate - no, they are likely doing it purely out of routine and because they know they'll get a feed or a groom etc.! I doubt its because they want to stand about in a tiny box for hours on end.

I also dont understand why it is more acceptable to stable a competition horse. I understand the horse is more valuable and assume the owner simply wants to wrap it in cotton wool. Personally, my competition horse lives out 24/7 (and he doesn't have one ounce of native in him) and IMO he keeps himself far fitter & supple by moving about. And he seems really happy mentally.

People wouldn't keep a dog or a cat in a cage for hours so I'm unsure why its so acceptable to do so to a horse...
 
One of the five freedoms for farm animals (horses included) is the freedom to exhibit normal behaviour. I would argue freedom to roll, buck, have a charge about, mutual groom, graze, etc etc etc is a must for a horse (provided obviously there isn't another more pressing welfare concern).

Just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean its right. This is one of those subjects for me: I don't think its right, and I DO think its a welfare concern.
 
IMO, horses should be out every day.... unless of course for medical reasons.

It's top of my list of priorities for a yard that they can go out all day every day. I was at a yard where in the winter they were in 3 days a week. My boy coped with it and seemed happy enough, but I wasn't happy because I didn't feel it was what was best for him. In my area there isn't that many yards with good turnout, but I found one and so my horse now goes out all day every day.

In this situation I think you cant do anything more. Everyone is entitled to do what they want.
 
Naturally said:
One of the five freedoms for farm animals (horses included) is the freedom to exhibit normal behaviour. I would argue freedom to roll, buck, have a charge about, mutual groom, graze, etc etc etc is a must for a horse (provided obviously there isn't another more pressing welfare concern).

Just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean its right. This is one of those subjects for me: I don't think its right, and I DO think its a welfare concern.
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My personal view is that I completely agree with what Naturally has said here :) Unless there are other welfare reasons that the horse is kept in, I think it is is bordering on cruelty to keep a horse in 24/7 :(
 
Naturally said:
One of the five freedoms for farm animals (horses included) is the freedom to exhibit normal behaviour. I would argue freedom to roll, buck, have a charge about, mutual groom, graze, etc etc etc is a must for a horse (provided obviously there isn't another more pressing welfare concern).

Just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean its right. This is one of those subjects for me: I don't think its right, and I DO think its a welfare concern.
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Agree 100%.

And not only that horses keep fitter if they are out 24/7 - so it would make sense for all competition horses to live out. A study done in the US last year showed that 24 hour turnout can do as much for a horse's fittness level as an hours exercise under saddle. The study also showed that horses out 24/7 have higher bone density than stabled horses - even those horses out 24/7 but not ridden at all!
 
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