horses that rear

diggerbez

diggerbez

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Will you knowingly ride a horse that rears? i mean seriously rears regularly- bolt upright, not mini baby rears.... i have an opinion on this that a horse that goes vertical has no self preservation and have seen the effects of them going over backwards a few too many times to want to risk it...but a friend disagrees with me... wondered what your opinions are :)
 
ditto above. cannot brace crap lower back aginst bucks, but know how to ride a rearer.

prev mare used to flip over regularly, we had an agreement that she went over and to the right and i went left and we always managed to part company neatly!
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
ditto above. cannot brace crap lower back aginst bucks, but know how to ride a rearer.

prev mare used to flip over regularly, we had an agreement that she went over and to the right and i went left and we always managed to part company neatly!
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Jesus you're insane!!

Must admit I would rather ride a rearer than a bucker but I wouldn't ever sit on one (knowingly) that had gone over. IMO that usually indicates a serious problem (the only one that did it with me had an aneurysm sp?) and I wouldn't want to risk my neck, its just not worth it.
 
Well, I do it willingly and regularly (for money :D) so clearly don't have a problem, per se. I will say though, my goal is always to FIX the behaviour so it'd hardly a case of just accepting it.

And yes, horses do lose their balance but I've met many confirmed rearers, especially stallions, who know exactly what they're doing and stay on their feet easily! Which is not to say it's to be ignored/encouraged, as I've also seen them pay the price in the long run, slipping or turning over on a hind leg or similar for a career ending injury to either horse or rider.

I do differentiate between "rearers" and "flippers" though. The two feel VERY different and the latter really are different kettle of fish - a huge danger to themselves and others! I'm not sure less experienced people necessarily see the difference, though, so tend to lump them all together. I will say, I've ridden far fewer flippers (and every one has "got me" at least once, it's almost unavoidable eventually, especially if you're young and stupid ;) ) but if someone did call me out to see one I would have a much sterner conversation about it than I likely would if the horse was a rearer. I'm not saying they aren't potentially "fixable", too, but in my experience it's usually a more serious, inherent issue and speaks more to the horse's general outlook/health.

I really don't understand "ranking" reactions like bucking, rearing etc. They really are just individual expressions and they're ALL a bad idea. Just because you can stay on a horse doesn't mean there aren't risks involved in the behaviours to both of you (not the least of which is that no one is going to be lucky every time) or that they "don't matter" for some reason. At the very least they are extreme forms of communication from the horse! Obviously, none of us live in a perfect world and horses are horses but ideally (and if I do my job right!) the goal is for the horse not to be doing ANY dangerous behaviour routinely . . ?
 
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PS, we had one that would go over, you had usually slipped off the back before it hit the deck!
he went over beacuse he was a bloody great thick oaf rather than flipping over on purpose.
 
echo Tarrsteps in that there are rearers and flippers. A horse that will happily go over is a danger to itself and any riders, a rearer if managed correctly and not unbalanced by the rider not so much.

Fleur was a rearer (well technically will be foreever more though doesn't now if that makes sense!). She was extremely well balanced and only went over once which thankfully caused no injuries. I knew though I could pre guess when she would go up so normally 9 times out of 10 she wouldn't actually have chance to remove her front feet from the floor ;) and once the triggers were sorted it slowly decreased to now once in a blue moon!

I would rather ride a rearer to a bucker any day, but a horse that will happily go over should just not be ridden full stop at all!
 
measles said:
I'll be the one that disagrees then :D I'd never have one that rears - second time it went up and it would be gone as you only have one spine.
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Yep. Would never get on a horse that reared properly on a regular basis. I am not a balanced or competent enough rider to deal with it safely.

We had a mare once- she'd been doing rodeos for weeks, bucking and spinning and broncing until my sister came off. She went up and over once, and was gone the next weekend.

My mum would never knowingly let us get on a horse who reared and I really do not understand parents who do, especially with younger teenagers on board.
 
diggerbez said:
Will you knowingly ride a horse that rears? i mean seriously rears regularly- bolt upright, not mini baby rears.... i have an opinion on this that a horse that goes vertical has no self preservation and have seen the effects of them going over backwards a few too many times to want to risk it...but a friend disagrees with me... wondered what your opinions are :)
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I had my first horse, a mare, when i was 17. She used to rear, buck and bolt all in the one session. I was very adept at sitting to her rears, and never seemed to feel any fear but at the time I had a lot of practice! The bolting was a different matter and that scared me more, especially as she did it on the road and Mum and Dad banned me from hacking her out again.

We were very naive first time horse owners, and it turned out that she had 3 vetrebrae out in her back. She ended up going for a brood mare as she was very well bred. Not before throwing off a 'so called expert' who sat on her for two minutes and ended up breaking her ankle and threatening to sue us after she rearer on her.

Now I have a disc problem so any horse that is not 100% safe either on the ground or on their back and I have serious issues. I wouldn't think I would sit a buck or a rear these days and having seen too many people seriously injured or killed through problem horses I wouldn't want to either.

The cracking of the egg between the ears doesn't work. The wip *** is much more effective ... apparently. When i had Goldie I didn't know about wip wops or much else to be perfectly honest, now if I encountered a similiar problem I would draft in an expert and not tackle it myself.
 
Rearing I don't mind, flipping I would. Mine will stand up but a) she warns me; b) she doesn't really want me off, she just wants to nap; and c) I have a vast array of tactics for dealing with it. I would prefer it if she didn't, but she is so scopey and so genuine to a fence, that she's worth it.

If a horse flipped, I wouldn't sit on it. Not only because of the risk of it flipping whilst rearing, but what does that say about its sense of self preservation? I've just started BE Novice and I'd love to go I or CCI*. No way, no how, would I gallop down to 3'9" of fixed timber on something that didn't care about staying upright on its own feet.
 
My horse also goes right up at times but this is more of a tantrum/nap response and as much as it unnerves me at times he has improved hugely and you learn to adapt. Thankfully he hasn't gone over and I pray he never does.
I absolutely would not ride a horse that deliberately threw its self over, obviously with any horse that rears the danger is that they could loose balance but to purposely do so means a complete danger to all concerned.
Gives me hope to see how many people have horses that rear, I thought it was the worst thing in the world the first time my boy did it. :)
Maybe flippers can be cured but it would be by a very experienced professional.
 
Agree with the rearer vs flipper. I would never ride the latter again after sitting on and being squashed by one 4/5 weeks ago! To be fair it was a sweet young horse in for breaking and he spooked, reared and then lost his balance and he has never before or since reared again. Poor chap I think he was a bit shocked and reacted out of fear rather than naughtiness.
My poor back is still not a happy bunny and the bruises are only just going! However rearers don't really bother me.
Connie god bless her, favourite past time apart from jumping was rearing. Oh and she was so good at it and went BOLT UPRIGHT, such a natural at standing on 2 hind legs and she never ever went over backwards, even when she reared with me on a very steep hill facing downwards. She (actually that was pretty scary) knew exactly where her feet were and loved it as a good game of being naughty, napping and getting out of hardships such as dressage. I remember at Bramham 3* she went bolt in the start box as she couldn't wait for the final '5' '4' '3' '2' '1' and I heard that start team yell 'oh my goodness' i was laughing!
I used to go hacking and when she got bored she would rear and take her self home sideways at gallop... so naughty but she did a good job for me so hey ho, she actually got better as she got older, but somedays if she didn't want to go in her stable or the lorry you touched the leadrope and up up up she went! We used a special head collar with a rope that went over her lip to stop her rearing on the ground so you could load her etc... it got to the point where all you would have to do is show it her and she would stop rearing!

I have a mare now that sort of reminds me of her, really really exceptional jumper but going through 5yo lets be nappy by the entrance stage, she does a good 'Connie' attempt (luckily not as high!) but as soon as I am quick enough to catch it before she does it she gets on with her job and is just being a naught nappy mare that need a bit of a telling off! She also would never go over, to clever which is why she is going to be so good but also why she knows she can play that fun game!

Horses that rear out of fear or pain are a completely different kettle of fish as their actions are not premeditated which is why the youngster that went over on me did, he reacted out of fear and lost control of his body. Connie and the 5yo knew and know exactly what they are doing and where their feet are!!

Guess it depends on the reasons of why are horse rears!
 
I try and avoid getting on any horse that is going to make an effort to get me off again, whether that be bucking, rearing or flipping :D I'm too much of a wimp to risk my neck!

Henry's naughty-ness of is rearing, but has only gone up vertical once, scared the crap out of himself with his own wildness and came back down pretty dam quick! :rolleyes: His rears are through excitement, are balanced, usually pretty tiny and normally come with 3 weeks written notice of the actual event :D
 
Mine rears, and I don't ride her any more. She follows it with a Harrier Jump Jet leap, then does a 180 spin when her feet touch the floor. She has been schooled by some very good people and didn't do it with them. I can't deal with it, and after landing on my chin on tarmac, dislocating my jaw and shoulder, and nearly having half a ton of horse land on my leg as I lay on the road - no. Never again :)
 
Firstly, TarrSteps and ElleJS - RESPECT!! (You are both clearly clinically insane, but respect due all the same! :))

In response to the OP. Nope, never in a month of Sundays!! Having said that, when I say rearing, I mean the full on vertical, I'm likely to topple over backwards type. Not the little hoppy I'm so excited/a bit cross type. Would have done a few year back though (before I had responsibilities which meant the show stopped if I was broken)
 
No way!!! If my horse reared bolt upright to the point it could or did flip over it would be gone!!!! Why would you want to put up with that???

If any horse did anything horrid enough to make me fall off more then 2 times in a row I would get rid. I haven't fallen off in 9 years *touchs wood frantically that im not cruising for a big fall and that i'm going to be gently tipped on the ground* so for all my faults I can stick on and if a horse chucked me off and it wasnt 'one of those things' I would be seriously worried.
 
My mare is rearer and I had an knee operation in October from where she flipped over and landed on me (luckily to the side and obviously landed on my left knee- not that I remember- happened far too quickly!!) :)

Anyway I got straight back on without much thought- I always know when her rears are coming and that day was an exception, if I feel that she is rearing too high for comfort one day then I will just get off and lunge or something... however *touch wood* she hasn't reared since. Maybe it taught her a lesson??!! ;) It's the bucks and leaps that leave me hanging by her ears- the rears are quite easy to sit to!!
 
Optimist said:
Firstly, TarrSteps and ElleJS - RESPECT!! (You are both clearly clinically insane, but respect due all the same! :))
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Haha!! :) yep totally bonkers i'm afraid! don't think I would get on another Connie ever again though, i'm a whuss now! I think as I was a teenager in those days I had no fear.....
 
rearers, fine, any day. flippers, if they've gone vertical (truly vertical, as in wobbling and losing their balance), more than once, no thanks. they're brainless if they do it more than once, and i don't want to be near a brainless horse, let alone on it.
 
ElleJS said:
Haha!! :) yep totally bonkers i'm afraid! don't think I would get on another Connie ever again though, i'm a whuss now! I think as I was a teenager in those days I had no fear.....
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Whilst I don't believe for a micro moment that you are anywhere close to the the whuss universe, I totally am with you re teenager = no fear. Was there once. Now am the mother of the above and struggle to watch a round of SJ at anything over 1.05 where said offspring is performing..... quite pathetic. Daughter thinks it is hysterically funny. Oddly, find it marginally easier to watch XC - only marginally though...... When will she give up and go chasing boys like a normal child???? (Bank manager and cardiac surgeon both backing me up on this :) :) )
 
My TB mare rears, and she is the only horse I've felt truely safe on :D

I can tell when she's going to rear as her heart rate goes up and she grinds her teeth, so I am normally always prepared. I have tried numerous ways of breaking her habit, and have found the best way is to sit there are laugh at her.

So no, her rearing doesn't bother me. It doesn't bother my novice 11yr old sister either, but it does scare my Mum.

However, I would be dubious getting on a horse I didn't know well, knowing that he rears. And I doubt I'd ride a horse that had flipped over, unless I had seen him in action and thought I could prevent the rear.
 
Optimist said:
Firstly, TarrSteps and ElleJS - RESPECT!! (You are both clearly clinically insane, but respect due all the same! :))
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Well, I have no idea what ElleJS's excuse is, but I get paid. ;)

Nope, I'm the most risk averse person with horses you'll ever meet. My students used to call me "Elmer the Safety Elephant" (I don't think you have him here so it won't be funny to you lot) or, if they were really rolling their eyes, The Voice of Doom. :D I'm always thinking about how things might be made safer/easier.

Although I will admit I seemed to have less sense when I was younger and got a lot of my experience when I was too young to know how much trouble I was in most of the time. Luckily I survived and - hopefully - learned a bit.

Which actually IS my point. It's not just being able to stay on a horse, it's being able to sort the problem. And if you're riding other people's horses (or EVER going to sell one) then you have to ask yourself, as my boss used to say, who cares if you can ride it? ;)

So no, I don't WANT to ride rearers/flippers/buckers etc I want to ride them so I can help them NOT do that sort of thing. Ideally, if I do it right, the horse, myself and the regular rider shouldn't be in danger, or at least in any more than riding a "regular" horse.

I will say though I've ridden some very talented horses who had very extreme reactions simply because they were very talented. It really was no hardship for them to walk around on their hindlegs or turn themselves inside out so it didn't take much, given their sensitivity, to get to that point. Horses like that aren't *intentionally* doing something dangerous, they're just being what they are. Under the same motivation less extreme horses would likely not be nearly as "difficult" so in that case, it's not really about the horse at all, nor is it a case of what the ride will "stand" - it's about what the rider can avoid/manage/prevent/encourage.
 
TarrSteps said:
Nope, I'm the most risk averse person with horses you'll ever meet. My students used to call me "Elmer the Safety Elephant" (I don't think you have him here so it won't be funny to you lot) or, if they were really rolling their eyes, The Voice of Doom. :D I'm always thinking about how things might be made safer/easier.

Although I will admit I seemed to have less sense when I was younger and got a lot of my experience when I was too young to know how much trouble I was in most of the time. Luckily I survived and - hopefully - learned a bit.
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Yep, exactly the same here, even to the point of being a safety busybody... I can't help it, I see a situation that could go horribly pear-shaped and I can't help trying to prevent it...

isn't Elmer the cute multi-coloured-squared one? Can't quite see the resemblance...
 
kerilli said:
isn't Elmer the cute multi-coloured-squared one? Can't quite see the resemblance...
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Oh. My. God. There is ANOTHER Elmer!! But he's not a Safety Elephant so that makes all the difference. :) Apparently Elmer was phased (not to be confused with "fazed" ;) ) out in the '80s due to funding cuts but he's making a comeback, with a new trendy look. Old and new here: http://www.elmer.ca/parents-educators/story.php I'll let you decide if there is a resemblance . . . :P

I don't generally interfere with what other people want to do with their necks unless they ask. I've only twice had people actively interfere with my riding a "dangerous" horse though, and both times it was over ones that reared (one by the horse's vet, the other by a very experienced trainer friend of my boss at the time) - one had a seizure disorder that was not being managed properly (debatable whether or not the horse should have been ridden at all) and the other was a stallion who was so messed up he ended up being literally locked in a box for years as he'd done so much damage, the poor sod. :( (My first clue should have been when he grabbed me by the back of the neck one day. . .) In both cases more experienced people identified those horses as not your normal run of rearers, although I've had some that probably *looked* worse, they were just more fixable because their problems were more definable and addressable. That said, the first flipper I had landed on me but good so that was a lesson learned. :) I'd be happy to save someone else from learning it that way!
 
Lilly has a tendency to rear. Not high really, and in perfect balance. The only thing about it that worries me, is that she'll hit me in the face. It's only out of fear (like a meerkat sort of - looking around ready to shoot off in any direction), and as such it's been a while since she last did it, and she hasn't done it many times in total.

I think I'd be happy riding a youngster that rears a lot in the field and might rear under saddle as a response to situations etc, but then I'd be in the position to discourage it as it happens. I wouldn't be so happy riding something that has developed this as a fully fledged habit.
 
Ah, right, a more normal-looking Elmer. You'll be relieved to hear that I can't see the resemblance... ;) ;)

TarrSteps said:
I don't generally interfere with what other people want to do with their necks unless they ask.
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oh, ditto, i just can't stop myself if it's the horses who are at risk though - tying direct to a metal gate, low-hanging big-holed haynets, that sort of thing, where i can just see it all going horribly wrong.
sounds as if you've had some VERY interesting ones to deal with. anything trying to pick me up with its teeth doesn't get a gold star, must admit. ;) ;)
 
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