Horses that won't hack - WB trait?

cptrayes

cptrayes

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Until I bought a KWPN 6 years ago I would have sworn that there was no horse which I could not teach to hack out happily. I used to buy other people's nappy horses cheap and sort them out. Then I met Jazz, and for the first time in my life I simply could not persuade him that hacking was either safe or fun. I thought he was a one-off. He was as bad at 10 as he had been at 4. Now I have a German Warmblood, Hannoverian/Westfalian, and after 20 months I have to admit he is no happier than Jazz was, he's just easier to control. So he will hack, but he really doesn't want to. Both horses were equally bad in hacking in company with their own field mates as alone.

So, now I've had two warmbloods and two non-hackers - is this a warmblood trait? Or was I just lucky with every single one of all the other horses I have had over the years?
 
IMO it's not necessarily a WB trait, but the potential trait of highly intelligent althletic horse who knows it's own mind and what it likes/dislikes and how to express that. Now as a lot of sport horses are WB then it goes hand in hand that you may see it expressed more in WBs.

But to be honest I've seen plenty of other breeds (TB's and Welsh D's spring to mind) that aren't the best hackers but can often be persuaded to hack by the right jockey (doen't mean they enjoy it though!)

There are plenty of WB's that love hacking though.

Ironically a friend has a Jazz horse that won't hack!
 
I think it is a w/b trait tbh. I've always sworn I would never have another w/b after a nappy hannoverian mare I had years ago. Never had a nappy horse or pony till that point and that included 40 odd ponies/horses. Like you I had some which had learned bad habits, usually pony crosses, which needed straightening out, but never the absolute disinterest in going exploring and the actual enjoyment in going round in circles which many w/b's seem to have.
 
Where did you get them from? If they came from Germany/Holland they had a very different upbringing from the way horses here are brought up. Many do have a little freedom outside in a group as yearlings, but from two they may be getting prepared for gradings etc (particularly if a nice colt) and more or less live the life of an adult horse in a stable.

My KWPN from Holland had quite obviously never been turned before/for a long time when I got him at 6. He had no idea of horse language at all, though within a month of turnout he was the field boss. At first he used to stand at the gate calling to be let back inside. He enjoyed hacking but had never hacked before. He was a little spooky but not bad. The hann stallion I used to ride who was from the State Stud in Celle loved hacking and was very, very bold. The other UK bred hann stallion was the same. One UK bred hann mare very sharp but hacked out ok, and the hann baby I had was the bravest hack I have ever had. The traks I had also hacked out ok though sharp. These are all horses that hacked out alone or in company (usually alone though). I don't think I have ever had a horse that wouldn't hack out so I have been lucky I think :)
 
I ride my friend's horses and the hanovarian mare can be , well , a mare! It's never certain what bit of the local geography she'll object to. Speed bumps, leaves,tape or a multitude of things visible only to her. Sometimes she's great but on other days there will be full out hissy fits. Apparently this is how she's always been ..think she's about 7 years now and my friend has had her two years. So far I've avoided riding her as she's just too much horse for me to even contemplate.
 
Having always had WB i have to say i have never had a problem wtih any of them. They have come from abroad as well, all been youngsters who have had limited turn ot, last one had never been outside her barn yet hacked happily in the heaviest of traffic (i hate hacking), one from France fine, Belgium, Holland and Germany. The worst one i have ever had to take on the road and which put me off hacking for life was a TB! Now that was lethal and i have spoke to others with TB's who have had the same problem, but equally so other people with TB are fine! Think it is just pot luck and some horses do genuinely not like hacking and i can't say as i blame them!
 
Hollycatt said:
Where did you get them from? If they came from Germany/Holland they had a very different upbringing from the way horses here are brought up. Many do have a little freedom outside in a group as yearlings, but from two they may be getting prepared for gradings etc (particularly if a nice colt) and more or less live the life of an adult horse in a stable.
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Both imports at four almost direct from the stud. One from Germany, one from Holland.

Never ridden the like of either of them before!
 
ihatework said:
IMO it's not necessarily a WB trait, but the potential trait of highly intelligent althletic horse who knows it's own mind and what it likes/dislikes and how to express that. Now as a lot of sport horses are WB then it goes hand in hand that you may see it expressed more in WBs.
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VERY good point. They also happen to be far and away the most expensive and selectively bred horses I have ever bought.


ihatework said:
But to be honest I've seen plenty of other breeds (TB's and Welsh D's spring to mind) that aren't the best hackers but can often be persuaded to hack by the right jockey (doen't mean they enjoy it though!)
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I've ridden a load of ex racer TBs that were desperately nappy as sole hackers, but they only took a couple of weeks to get used to it and appear quite happy.

The difference with this pair is that they really aren't happy. The German one is very interesting, because he's a pushover to get him to do what I want, but he is only doing it because I want him to.

I have decided not to bother any more. He likes going round in circles, so he can go round in circles. It's what he was bought for, I only tried to introduce hacking to give him some variety :)
 
cptrayes said:
Both imports at four almost direct from the stud. One from Germany, one from Holland.

Never ridden the like of either of them before!
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That probably explains part of the issue then, the way they were raised and produced. Again doesn't mean all that are raised and produced in the stereotypical Euro way won't or dislike hacking, but you are probably raising your chances of obtaining such an animal by buying one of that breeding and upbringing.
 
Well the only WB Ive ever had didn't hack - used to nap like hell. Was really annoying as he wasn't spooky and was great in traffic etc. he just didnt want to go anywhere! Some people think they're really intelligent and thats the reason, personally of the WB's Ive known, I find them rather thick with stinky attitudes!
 
My mare was bred in the UK, her gsire was Argus and so she was quite an old fashioned type, not too heavy but quite flat in the croup and a bit slow witted, I think the older traditional warmbloods had too much carriage horse in them to want to cross country. My mare was great at the fences but used to exhaust me between them.

I remember in fact that I also rode a Hanno in the early 80's who had been imported as a stallion and then cut, he was a really big old fashioned sort but hadn't a nap in him & was a fantastic hunter/jumper/hacker used to be ridden by a farmer who would round up his livestock on the horse & wouldn't often bother with gates, just jumped all the hedges.
 
MagicMelon said:
Well the only WB Ive ever had didn't hack - used to nap like hell. Was really annoying as he wasn't spooky and was great in traffic etc. he just didnt want to go anywhere! Some people think they're really intelligent and thats the reason, personally of the WB's Ive known, I find them rather thick with stinky attitudes!
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I disagree with this. My WB is the most intelligent horse I have ever owned. He is so switched on he knows my mind better than I do. Teach him something once and he understands immediately. He has a very trainable attitude. He is also very demonstrative if he does not like something - he will tell you in no uncertanin terms, but by that I mean things like being freeze branded and fly spray sprayed on him.
 
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Definitely something in it. Generally speaking, though there are plenty of exceptions, WBs are backward thinking, flipping wussy horses with a tendency to over-react.

TBs, welshies and arabs, are often as highly strung and hot or hotter, but so much easier to get on side IME.
 
My hanovarian gelding was the worst hacker, he never enjoyed it, he would go, but it was always grudgingly :o when he took it up his humph, he would nap, rear and try to spin to get out of it, i spent a fortune getting everything checked out, but it was just him.
His worst moment was a huge leap, all 4 feet off the ground and then the 2 of us landed in a heap, me still in the saddle with him lying on my leg :eek: we both got off lucky there, he could be great and traffic didnt bother him, but by god he was terrified of chickens :eek::eek::)
My han/tb cross would hack till the cows came home and loved it, but i know a few people who have probs hacking their warmbloods, one a sj who was never hacked as he would break into a sweat before he left the yard and was on red alert all the time while out, it was torture for him, he was better just being ridden Round the fields if he needed a break from the school as hacking stressed him out no end poor boy.
 
No all my warm bloods became great hacks and I had several that arrived older having never hacked out been in a field etc .
I do a lot of riding and leading at first and am careful never to over face them early on all all enjoyed autumn hunting when they where ready .
I have only had one turely bad hack he was the classic Irish event horse / top class hunter type he was a lively but fun hunter but remain an apsolutly crap hack for the whole of his life.
Mind I love warm bloods I always seem to click with them all mine have been very sharp types.
 
I've had 2 WB's and both have been my most solid hackers.

We live on the rural lanes but with a timber yard with huge lorries going in and out we also have level crossings and lots of farm machinery an livestock being move from field to field. I happily let my nervous Mum hack out on my WB alone :)
 
I used to be convinced that every horse would hack and then I came across a KWPN who was a donkey in company but horrific by himself. I gave up as he was far happier in an arena. I wonder if its a security thing and they prefer enclosed spaces?

I have a Danish Warmblood and he loves hacking but he is a very bold horse.
 
Heh. Mine was (when still in work) very good to hack, could take him anywhere in any company, although he'd sometimes get a bit boingy.

He was actually much hotter in the school. Responsive and very generous on his own terms, but opinionated and liable to boil over. Love that horse :)
 
im going to go against the grain here and say ive had 2 warmbloods one kwpn Showjumper who was competing at foxhunter level and my now 4 year old who is WBXTB and have to say i havent had any issues with hacking out. youngster happily hacks solo or in company and quite often leads the way been very brave, this may well all chnage as she is only 4, but other one happily hacks out all day long if a bit spooky at times..
 
Yes! My WB mare! She's the easiest horse to plod on but as soon as we're out she's a demon! However, if I walk her out on a hack she's very on her toes but will come along. When ridden, even with other horses she will go out the drive and stop. Just stop, and no amount of coaxing or kicking will make her move. Tried everything, I just have put it down to dislike of hacks! Have yet to take her to some shows... Good luck with yours!
 
German WB - will nap if given the chance but not very hard, he is just stupid and doesn't know why he's doing it himself. Loves hacking when he's thinking forward.

KWPN - sharp, sensitive horse absolutely loves to hack. Will sometimes stop and stare if he's unsure of something but if he does i let him stand then ask him to move on and he happily does.

TB (bred to event so no race history) - the most stubborn, nappy horse i have ever ridden but also one of the bravest XC horses. He could do some real airs above the ground when he didn't wan't to do something. I had to persevere with the hacking as he Evented but sometimes it wasn't enjoyable for either of us.

Also I have had a lot of welsh types, SH types you name it who take the mick out of there young/novice rider and just require more positive riding.
 
Not really, depends on how they have been brought up. A lot of the youngsters spend time in 'Opfok' till they're 3. No it's not a swear word.:p I don't like it but that's just my opinion.
Basically from weaning (can be from 4months old :eek:), they are running loose with a herd of others the same age and very very little is done with them until at the age of 3 when they are ripped from their security and have to start learning everything very quickly. :(
Most of them will only ever see the inside of a schooling arena so its no wonder they are a nightmare to hack. Speaking from experience with Grey mare. 7 years old when I bought her and barely knew that there was life outside of the yard. 9 months it took me to get her to a decent state to hack and even now she naps something rotten with my daughter. :rolleyes:
Funny how I don't seem to have the same problem. :confused:
I was one of the very few on the previous yard who actually dared to hack out. :rolleyes: Such a waste as we have a fantastic beach on our doorstep, bridlepaths, a wood and loads of quiet hacking routes. Bliss! Poor horses spend more time in the stables then anywhere else. :(

Our other one, Breitlingh, is highly bred (not that Grey mare isn't) and still only 6 but seems to take everything in her stride when out hacking with my daughter. She'll look but that's all. Nightmare in the schooling arena at the moment but that is an ongoing problem we are trying to sort.

I had a 3/4 arab when I was younger and I could take her anywhere. Again it was due to how she'd been raised. We used to hack along the side of a main A road and one day we met the army in tanks rumbling along the road. Now that was a real shocker. At 5 years old she didn't bat an eyelid!
 
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Smith123 said:
My wb loves hacking! Take him hunting, that will change his mind!
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The KWPN did most of a season. It didn't. :D


Interesting everyone's experiences, thankyou :)

By the way I am not talking about being traffic shy, they aren't in the slightest. I'm talking about wanting to turn for home because a patch of road is damp, a daffodil has grown on a verge, or a lamb is jumping around and simply being stiff and unhappy even if they are going forwards without complaining. And I'm not talking about taking the mick out of me as a rider, either. I used to buy every cheap nappy horse going, sort it out and sell it on. These are different altogether.
 
Our old horse Miro didn't like hacking. He was Danish WB. It took us months to get him hacking without napping. He used to let out the most blood curdling scream going down the road. He genuinely didn't like it. I did get him hacking alone but you couldn't ever let him have a long rein and had to be on guard all the time for spooks. He was marginally better in company but was clear he just didn't like hacking - he was a big wuss and scared of everything! I know people say you should hack a horse for their own sanity so they're not schooling day in day out, but i can honestly say that he would prefer to be in the safety of the arena fence day in day out than go into the scary big world outside of the yard!
 
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