Horses that won't hack - WB trait?

[Turitea]

Doubt it. Majority of German happy hackers sit on WBs (most common breed over there).

 

[Orangehorse]

I used to exercise a WB for a lady, as he was about 13 and she thought the extra exercise would be good to keep him loosened up. He was a good dressage horse, and had been an eventer in his youth.

Considering that he was a dressage horse he was extremely bad at obeying "walk out" aids. He was the worst horse I have ever had to hack. He wasn't nappy, he just didn't want to go out for a ride. If I got tough with him, he would take about 12 steps at a faster pace, and then drop back to s-l-o-w. As the YO commented, she wouldn't have fancied taking him round a cross country course!

Funnily enough, one day I went to ride him and had lost a shoe, so the YO said to take him in the arena and he was a different horse. Trotting around full of the joys of life, pointing his toes, light, obedient, a joy to ride. He obviously preferred dressage above all else.

 

[flowerlady]

The KWPN did most of a season. It didn't.


Interesting everyone's experiences, thankyou

By the way I am not talking about being traffic shy, they aren't in the slightest. I'm talking about wanting to turn for home because a patch of road is damp, a daffodil has grown on a verge, or a lamb is jumping around and simply being stiff and unhappy even if they are going forwards without complaining. And I'm not talking about taking the mick out of me as a rider, either. I used to buy every cheap nappy horse going, sort it out and sell it on. These are different altogether.

Ahh yes they do not like any change as in things that appear overnight It all made for an interesting ride though. Was never that bad all the TB were a pain though

 

[TicTac]

A majority of imported warmbloods have rarely done anthing other than go from their stable to an arena an back again. Hacking and turnout doesn't seem to be high on the agenda in foreign yards.

My imported dutch warmblood mare was not a good hack on her own, allthough funnily enough not a problem in traffic, and sometimes, even in company she would explode if she spotted something in the distance ie a person walking/with dog or whatever.

Not sure whether or not the problem is solely confined to WB's though.

 

[cptrayes]

Doubt it. Majority of German happy hackers sit on WBs (most common breed over there).

I'm coming to the conclusion that the "highly bred athlete" theory may be the right one. Presumably most of the happy hackers in Germany are average horses like most of the happy hackers here. Both my warmbloodswere by Grand Prix sires and were bred to compete at high level. Maybe once you breed for performance like that you get a super-cautious brain too?

 

[MrsMozart]

I have a DWB.

She used to be a complete twonk, but now I can hack out with others at any speed, she'll
go front or rear, on our own, in rain/thunder, etc etc etc. It's one of the good things I hold into when she's being a twit/lame/twit/lame/twit/lame....

 

[ellie_e]

Last night I managed to get my KWPN off the yard YAY!!! Its taken 18months but we've finally got there!!! We had 2 nappy moments last night but after that trotted up the road like a pro! Its been a tough old slog but think we've turned a corner! Proves that WB's can hack!!! Albit hes on a good calmer and since being on that has gone from nutty unrideable 6yr old, to super cool/brave xc machine rising 8yr old!

 

[emmab13]

I do find the WBs that pass through the yard a bit more backward thinking than, say, a ID x TB.

Any horse can be nappy, but I do find that WBs have a stronger, more naughty 'NO' response, and by nature are more athletic when they do say no.

I speak from experience, having been sent a 17.2hh 6 yr old KWPN for schooling, who had spent the first two years of his ridden life at a stallion station, hadn't made the grade and was then cut. His owner quite fancied going hunting on this strapping beast, tried himself for a bit and two broken bones later sent him to me. (5'4'', 9st)

Being chased down the drive/road by a quad bike being ridden by OH cracking a hunting whip caused a scene in the village, but did get the horse hacking out and going forward. Eventually we didn't need the quad!

I do remember getting said horse all the way round the big block by himself with no airs above ground and being ever so proud. Then we met OH in the tractor as we came up the drive. Horse stood up, I gave him a smack down the shoulder, as he came down I gave him one behind the saddle to send him forward. He bucked so hard I sailed over his head to do a perfect somersault to land looking up at his naughty nose.

 

[Goldenstar]

This is really interesting you see I think ID / TB 's are often stupid stubborn and wooden I hate them and will never buy them I think it's an unpredictable cross I do however love TB's and ID's .and have one of each at the moment .
I have never had a backwards thinking warm blood but mine have all been from modern performance lines so bred to be sharp now mine have all been very sharp but I like sharp.
If you gave me the choice of any horse I would go every time for the modern type of DWB.

 

[Four Seasons]

My WB's hack perfectly fine, with and without company. My new 6-year-old hasn't seen much of the world yet, but she loves her hacks! My 2-year-old stallion loves walking and wandering around the forest and on the beach.

In Holland many people think their "sporthorses" are too precious to hack out. Or the owners are just wusses.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Tbh I think the rider is often to blame for a lot of horses that 'won't hack out'!

 

[Spyda]

My WB x TB mare is a weirdo to hack out. She'll hack fine on her own but will freak in company or if she sees/comes across other horses being ridden whilst she's out on a hack. Far from wanting to be in company she panics and wants to turn away and run from other horses. I should add this is a top dominant mare in temperament and she's homebred and never experienced anything untoward. This was the last type of behaviour I would have expected from a horse with the upbringing this ones had. Could it be the WB half of her??!

 

[rhino]

Nurture, not nature, and as always the gross generalisations on this kind of thread makes me laugh

 

[emmab13]

as always the gross generalisations on this kind of thread makes me laugh

There are generalisations, as in "all warmbloods are naughty to hack out"

And there are observations, as in "of the horses I've known, there are more warmbloods who are naughty to hack out than ID x TBs I have come across"

I do think KWPNs and Hannoverians are more difficult, of the Selle Francais and Trakheners I've had, all have been sharp, but forward thinking. Again, not a generalisation, but an observation.

 

[rhino]

But how many of each breed are you talking about? 1, 10, 100, 1000?

"Every knabstrupper I've ever ridden was completely useless at jumping."

I've only ridden one, so although my observation is not wrong, it is statistically, and absolutely, meaningless when looking at the bigger picture.

 

[Always Henesy]

My horse of a lifetime that I sadly lost last year was TBx Hanovarian and was the most bomb proof, easy going hack ever. He would hack down A roads with articulated lorries up his backside without a care in the world.
Tractors/lawn mowers/screaming children/dogs/shot guns going off/lorries/motor bikes - he was chilled about it all.
Being on a working farm with tractors and lorries going backwards and forwards all day probably helped. That and being turned out next to an A road also helped.
Saying that I have a full TB and a Shire x WB who are just as described above.
Especially the big lad - but then at 19hh he commands respect by other road users just by his size.
All three of my boys would go anywhere hacking and get great enjoyment from it whether that was off or on road.
I think it just depends on the individual horse and not what breed they are.

 

[siennamum]

Nurture, not nature, and as always the gross generalisations on this kind of thread makes me laugh

Gross generalisations like "Are TB's fizzier than ID's?" or "Are Highland Ponies generally placid & reliable". Seems to me there could well be some truth in many of these statements. Originally warmbloods were crosses involving norfolk trotters/ Cleveland Bays & other imported carriage horse breeds. Althogh they have their fans I have never met a CB that wasn't nappy & backwards. Treks & other cavalry horses are sharper & faster & less nappy, just like TB's. Lots of generalisations which have a nugget of truth in them.

 

[Tinypony]

Cptrayes, the question I'd ask would be - Would Buck Brannaman have more problems hacking a warmblood out? I suspect the answer would be no. )
Mark Rashid was talking about how wierd we are in the UK with the things we come out with about horses. Like the "chesnut mares" stuff. I think he'd probably put this in the same category?

 

[siennamum]

Chestnut mares are my favorite horses but I suspect that a combination of a hormonal mare and sensitive skin is the basis of the chestnut mare theory.

 

[StarlightMagic]

My 5yo kwpn has hacked alone happily since he was 3, and he was an import

 

[Goldenstar]

I think it just depends on the individual horse and not what breed they are.

I totally believe this but I do think certain types ( or breeds ) can suit certain riders temperaments I love ID's on the yard they are fun lovely horses full of cheekiness they understand life they remind me a bit of labradors they are team players ours is for my OH he's perfect for his job .
I have a TB's a good TB is a marvellous thing canter them up a hill its an amazing feeling mine though is often mistaken for a warmblood at clinics perhaps that's why I love him I always wanted him from the first moment I saw him.
I dislike the TB/ ID cross and I have worked with a lot they are just not for me.
Then there's the warmblood and my favs the KWPN's they are of course a type not strictly a breed and mine have been the modern ultra sharp ones I just love them and they are amongst the few horses I enjoy hacking ( I hate hacking and only do it because it's good for the horses) and yes mine have been the type who notice everything and now I think about it one was naughty and would spin round with my groom but she was my Favorite I loved hacking her out but she was very very sharp perhaps it's more about what the rider likes than the breed or type of horse.

 

[Herpesas]

Hoss is a trakehner and was terrible to hack out until the age of 11 - he would go, but would rear, spin round and then run backwards! He didn't want to go home cos the way home was just as terrifying as going the way I wanted him to go. He also used to leap to the right hand side of the road.

He was imported from Lithuania at the age of 5 and I suspect hadn't done much in the way of hacking.

At the age of 11 we moved to a yard where he was turned out on the opposite side of a tree line to a dual carriageway - he's been fine ever since. The only exception is he still HATES HGV air brakes but I can't blame him, they scare the crap out of me too!

Now he can be one of two ponies, asleep and tootling along on a long rein or sharp, spooky pony! Sometimes we get both ponies several times over in the one hack!!

 

[MagicMelon]

Mark Rashid was talking about how wierd we are in the UK with the things we come out with about horses. Like the "chesnut mares" stuff.

Ha ha, its not chestnut mares that are a problem - its CHESTNUT WARMBLOODS, AGHHHHH!!!!

On a serious note, I did read some research paper a while back which suggested they had found some evidence that chestnuts where in fact a bit more flighty / sensitive due to their skin tone. I cant remember exactly but I put it all down to why my chestnut warmblood (gelding) was a nutter at the time!

 

[emmab13]

But how many of each breed are you talking about? 1, 10, 100, 1000?

We have between 100 and 150 horses through the gates a year. Of those I would say 1/3 are bog standard Irish x TB.
A handful are pure TB or ID.

The rest are some sort of warmblood x.

 

[Tinypony]

Chestnut mares are my favorite horses but I suspect that a combination of a hormonal mare and sensitive skin is the basis of the chestnut mare theory.

Maybe only in the UK? Mark Rashid said he'd never come across them being any different in other parts of the globe.

 

[rhino]

Maybe only in the UK? Mark Rashid said he'd never come across them being any different in other parts of the globe.

Funnily enough there has been research which demonstrates that the 'ginger gene' in humans (MCR1) results in lower skin sensitivity - e.g. for injections, but also a lower tolerance for the cold. (Arendt-Neilson, L., Aalborg University)

Then there was a study (Sessler et al., Cleveland Clinic, Ohio) which I believe was published in a peer reviewed dental journal which suggested entirely the opposite; that the MCR1 gene caused increased sensitivity. However, this was based on asking various people (and a relatively low study cohort) about their experiences of dental treatments, and therefore purely based on conjecture IMO.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1362956/

How reproducible these results are I have no idea; they were widely reported in the tabloid press and less so elsewhere

 

[cptrayes]

I have never had a backwards thinking warm blood but mine have all been from modern performance lines so bred to be sharp now mine have all been very sharp but I like sharp.
If you gave me the choice of any horse I would go every time for the modern type of DWB.

Both mine are/were (one is dead) as sharp as knives. It makes/made hacking out a very dangerous pursuit at times.

Nurture, not nature, and as always the gross generalisations on this kind of thread makes me laugh

Come on Rhino, you know that's not the whole story Some horses are born much more nervous than others, amongst many other inherited traits.

For six years I worked to overcome Jazz's nature. In the end, provided I hacked out on a very regular basis, he was safe but never happy. If I stopped for a while, he was as bad as he was six years earlier. Freaking out just because a daffodil had grown on a verge which hadn't been there last time. If this was nurture from his first four years, I am sure that I could have permanently overcome it in the six years that I had him, but it was hard wired.

Cptrayes, the question I'd ask would be - Would Buck Brannaman have more problems hacking a warmblood out? I suspect the answer would be no. )

But I am Buck Brannaman ! My history is to have bought horses that were landing their owners in hospital, for very little money and sorting out their problems. The only one I failed with was found to be going blind. This is isn't me I can/could hack both these horses. They just don't like it and with my current one I am struggling to see why I should use my strength of will and riding ability to make him do what he does not want to do.

The only answer that I can come up with is "because it's good for his feet" which does not seem quite strong enough as an argument.

 

[Goldenstar]

Both mine are/were (one is dead) as sharp as knives. It makes/made hacking out a very dangerous pursuit

this might be the moment to admit that I fear that's why they are the horses I enjoy hacking most , because generally speaking I find hacking the most tedious equine pursuit but love that bubbling underneath you feeling they give when the energy button is stuck on on and you have them channelled in the walk.
You are right of course it is very good for their feet if BF I wonder however if shod how much good roadwork does its concussive and the frogs are off the ground so I think they can live without it.
You know your own horse best if you think they don't enjoy it don't do it just try to give as much variety as possible in other ways .

 

[cptrayes]

this might be the moment to admit that I fear that's why they are the horses I enjoy hacking most , because generally speaking I find hacking the most tedious equine pursuit but love that bubbling underneath you feeling they give when the energy button is stuck on on and you have them channelled in the walk.
You are right of course it is very good for their feet if BF I wonder however if shod how much good roadwork does its concussive and the frogs are off the ground so I think they can live without it.
You know your own horse best if you think they don't enjoy it don't do it just try to give as much variety as possible in other ways .

You couldn't enjoy hacking either of my two GS. It's not bubbly excitement, that's my hunter. There is no channelling a forward walk. It's rush-footdrag-rush-footdrag the whole time. And when something upset Jazz it was lethal spin-on-the-spot-from-extended-trot, rear-and-walk-backwards-through-a-fence, wait-50-minutes-cos-I-refuse-to-get-off-to-pass-a-daffodil stuff. You would have to be seriously masochistic to enjoy that kind of performance.

Now my horse I hunt is just what you would like. Forward is his middle name. His default pace is canter on the road and gallop on grass, and you have to ask him to go slower

 

[MerrySherryRider]

I have a fondness for WB mares because of their intelligence and strong sense of self and they've been as sound as a pound hacking out, alone or in company. Current mare is a Hanoverian who will hack for miles.